Mark_w Posted 23 October 2012 Posted 23 October 2012 Not on Waggy it doesn't Not after his first start this season and a few substitute appearances under Pearson no.
Captain... Posted 23 October 2012 Author Posted 23 October 2012 No they are statistics, and you can prove anything with statistics and at the end of the day in football they often don't indicate what happens in future. You can argue about them all day, I should know I work with them. You say a goal 252 minutes or whatever, I can say 19 goals in over 100 league career apperances, it's subjective. I've not said he is crap, I've said he is not good enough, theres a difference! Appearances don't really reflect anything when a large number of them are 5-10 minute cameos at the end of the game, when the result is already decided. I am trying to find the most accurate way of representing the facts, minutes per goal is certainly not a bad one, but yes it is skewed slightly by his form in the loan season, but if he can rediscover his form then he will be good enough to be 3rd choice striker. If we sign someone who is "good enough" they will not be happy sitting on the bench, so will need to come in to replace Vardy, who probably would be content with a squad role considering he wasn't even playing league football last season, but at the moment we don't have that we have a good young talented striker as 3rd choice, and I am more than happy with that.
seenitall Posted 23 October 2012 Posted 23 October 2012 Beckford career goals to games ratio 0.42 Waghorn 0.19
Manwell Pablo Posted 23 October 2012 Posted 23 October 2012 Appearances don't really reflect anything when a large number of them are 5-10 minute cameos at the end of the game, when the result is already decided. I am trying to find the most accurate way of representing the facts, minutes per goal is certainly not a bad one, but yes it is skewed slightly by his form in the loan season, but if he can rediscover his form then he will be good enough to be 3rd choice striker. If we sign someone who is "good enough" they will not be happy sitting on the bench, so will need to come in to replace Vardy, who probably would be content with a squad role considering he wasn't even playing league football last season, but at the moment we don't have that we have a good young talented striker as 3rd choice, and I am more than happy with that. It's massively skewed, for a start off if you've used 5-10 minutes for every sub game to get that total it's wrong as he often gets 20-25 minutes. If you've actually used minutes fair enough. Also if you come on when everyone else is knackered we're pushing for a point someone whips a corner in Nugent smashes it against your backside and hey presto, you've scored, your don't have to score for your next 25 sub apperances to maintain that 250 minute record, it's utter statistical bollocks. Look at top clubs, look at most Premier League clubs, look at Cardiff FFS Bellamy, Helguson, Maynard, horrifc injury to one? no problem we can cover it without having to panic loan or get a second rate player in at short notice. You need three good strikers and getting the minutes between them wont be that hard if you use your head and injuries and suspensions will occur. It's the one area we lack up front we sort that can't see us failing to go up.
indierich06 Posted 23 October 2012 Posted 23 October 2012 Jesus, yes I do know that, that is why if you continue to read you'll see I thought it would probably of been a good idea to get him on the transfer list in early July and cut his losses. In regards to Waghorn you make some very reasonable points and I'm not going to comment on Saturday, I didn't see it, however from the game I saw him start and the sub apperances he has that I've seen, his performances have ranged from Dog to just about average. You can't carry on a full league season expecting to challange with two first team strikers they need rest rotation and we need the ability to mix our tactics up which is exactly why someone like Kenwyn Jones would be perfect. Waghorn as fourth choice, I could live with, but then this magical run of games every one seems to think he needs will never appear so it might be better for him to go out on loan. Well the Beckford and Waghorn issues are linked really - Beckford obviously thought he would be the main man here and was happy to play for us while that was the case. Pearson should have anticipated that his feelings might change once he was out of the team. Obviously we don't want a player at the club who doesn't want to be here and Pearson can't just stick him the side to keep him happy when he's not performing. So he's gone out on loan and now it appears we're looking for someone to come in to compete with Vardy and Nugent, hence the Jones rumours. Pearson's not the kind of manager to rush into making signings - in the mean time, Waghorn is good enough to fill in for the odd game here and there. Pearson's no mug either, he saw enough in Waghorn to bring him to the club in the first place - but even then he was just used as a squad player. He probably wouldn't have got a run in the team if it weren't for Fryatt's injury. Pearson and his team obviously think he's a decent young player with a bit of potential, but he's not the finished article, which about sums him up for me. Decent Championship squad player - and you need plenty of those as well as a good first team to compete in this league.
Mark_w Posted 23 October 2012 Posted 23 October 2012 Beckford career goals to games ratio 0.42 Waghorn 0.19 Did you miss the minutes per goal stat earlier in the thread that shows Waghorn's record is better, or the goals per Championship start record I posted the other week that shows Waghorn's record is better?
Captain... Posted 23 October 2012 Author Posted 23 October 2012 It's massively skewed, for a start off if you've used 5-10 minutes for every sub game to get that total it's wrong as he often gets 20-25 minutes. If you've actually used minutes fair enough. Also if you come on when everyone else is knackered we're pushing for a point someone whips a corner in Nugent smashes it against your backside and hey presto, you've scored, your don't have to score for your next 25 sub apperances to maintain that 250 minute record, it's utter statistical bollocks. Look at top clubs, look at most Premier League clubs, look at Cardiff FFS Bellamy, Helguson, Maynard, horrifc injury to one? no problem we can cover it without having to panic loan or get a second rate player in at short notice. You need three good strikers and getting the minutes between them wont be that hard if you use your head and injuries and suspensions will occur. It's the one area we lack up front we sort that can't see us failing to go up. The minutes per game and goals per minutes stats are taken from here: http://www.transferm...eler_61674.html If you work with stats you will probably enjoy that site as much as I have this morning after (un)Happy Fox posted the link to this site earlier. It does show Waghorn has a better goals per minutes record than Beckford in the Championship.
Captain... Posted 23 October 2012 Author Posted 23 October 2012 Look at top clubs, look at most Premier League clubs, look at Cardiff FFS Bellamy, Helguson, Maynard, horrifc injury to one? no problem we can cover it without having to panic loan or get a second rate player in at short notice. You need three good strikers and getting the minutes between them wont be that hard if you use your head and injuries and suspensions will occur. It's the one area we lack up front we sort that can't see us failing to go up. Sorry forgot to respond to this bit, Bellamy and Helguson are both well into their 30s, they are probably content to rotate and be rested Bellamy can be played out wide too. Horrific injury to 1, and they will need cover because neither Bellamy nor Helguson can play a full season. Much rather have Nugent, Vardy, Waghorn, Futacs and Schlupp, than those 3. Edit: Sorry they also have Rudy Gestede, Tommy Smith, and 3 other young strikers on the books. I would still rather have our attacking options than theirs.
Manwell Pablo Posted 23 October 2012 Posted 23 October 2012 Sorry forgot to respond to this bit, Bellamy and Helguson are both well into their 30s, they are probably content to rotate and be rested Bellamy can be played out wide too. Horrific injury to 1, and they will need cover because neither Bellamy nor Helguson can play a full season. Much rather have Nugent, Vardy, Waghorn, Futacs and Schlupp, than those 3. Edit: Sorry they also have Rudy Gestede, Tommy Smith, and 3 other young strikers on the books. I would still rather have our attacking options than theirs. That wasn't hypothetical Maynard is out for months. Thats just silly, I know Helguson is old but he's playing pratically every game and his consistantly scored for years and years Bellamy is arguable the divisions best player. Maynard when fit is another good Championship striker. We have Dave who is decent enough Vardy has had an ok start but is still proving himself, then we're down to an out of form Waghorn, Schlupp is unproven and so is Futacs....... The reason we've been doing so well is Morgan has lead a very impressive defence line we're there is minimal but adequate cover we have excellent competition in midfield where we have Jones Drinkwater King not even giving a players like Danns a look and two of the divisons best wingers in Marshall and Knockart and Dyer, bless him, is putting the effort in and performing to the point where I don't think he could play much better, given his ability when being given the chance of the bench (take note Martyn Waghorn) and actually managing to work his way into the team.
jamesmilner Posted 23 October 2012 Posted 23 October 2012 love how a fan should"shut the **** up "if he has watched waghorn and doesnt rate him . waghorn isnt my cup of tea , is that better ? , or should i just tell the truth like it is that i dont think he will ever be good enough for us ! a goal isnt what he needs , hard work and get rid of his big time charlie attitudes a start . remember waggy got his contract and within a month a nail in his trainer , big 4x4 and a private number plate acting biggy big bollox . thats the reason i think he isnt for us(stuck up his own arse like millsy beckford and co) . my suggestion to you ? you go bury your head in the sand like the other areslickers . he aint good enough . he definitely aint right for us .
Mark_w Posted 23 October 2012 Posted 23 October 2012 If you don't like Waghorn, you're on the same side as this guy... love how a fan should"shut the **** up "if he has watched waghorn and doesnt rate him . waghorn isnt my cup of tea , is that better ? , or should i just tell the truth like it is that i dont think he will ever be good enough for us ! a goal isnt what he needs , hard work and get rid of his big time charlie attitudes a start . remember waggy got his contract and within a month a nail in his trainer , big 4x4 and a private number plate acting biggy big bollox . thats the reason i think he isnt for us(stuck up his own arse like millsy beckford and co) . my suggestion to you ? you go bury your head in the sand like the other areslickers . he aint good enough . he definitely aint right for us . That ought to win some people round.
Guest Col city fan Posted 23 October 2012 Posted 23 October 2012 If you don't like Waghorn, you're on the same side as this guy... That ought to win some people round.
Captain... Posted 23 October 2012 Author Posted 23 October 2012 love how a fan should"shut the **** up "if he has watched waghorn and doesnt rate him . waghorn isnt my cup of tea , is that better ? , or should i just tell the truth like it is that i dont think he will ever be good enough for us ! a goal isnt what he needs , hard work and get rid of his big time charlie attitudes a start . remember waggy got his contract and within a month a nail in his trainer , big 4x4 and a private number plate acting biggy big bollox . thats the reason i think he isnt for us(stuck up his own arse like millsy beckford and co) . my suggestion to you ? you go bury your head in the sand like the other areslickers . he aint good enough . he definitely aint right for us . You really should have taken my advise pal.
Jimothy Posted 23 October 2012 Posted 23 October 2012 We'll have another chance to find out if his form is picking up, he's starting again tonight.
Finnegan Posted 23 October 2012 Posted 23 October 2012 We'll have another chance to find out if his form is picking up, he's starting again tonight.
Babylon Posted 23 October 2012 Posted 23 October 2012 Thought his play was ok for the most part. Would like to see his miss again as it doesn't look easy from my seat. Did a couple of woeful sky balls. But to be fair apart from Morgan and Drinkwater so did everyone else. Played on lovely ball Dyer should have headed in. Thought Drinky was a class apart tonight.
Finnegan Posted 23 October 2012 Posted 23 October 2012 Thought his play was ok for the most part. Would like to see his miss again as it doesn't look easy from my seat. Did a couple of woeful sky balls. But to be fair apart from Morgan and Drinkwater so did everyone else. Played on lovely ball Dyer should have headed in. Thought Drinky was a class apart tonight. Thought there were a few times in the second half Waghorn should have released someone else and didn't, besides that cross to Dyer I thought his end product was poor. He lacks either pace or a good footballing brain to compensate. I should iterate I do want him to succeed here, desperately, I was glad when he came back and I really do like his attitude as a professional, I'm just consistently disappointed by his output. He offered nothing at all today and we looked much, much zippier once Vardy and Marshall came on and changed up the shape a little (even though I think Marshall looked a little bit rusty and a tad ponderous.)
Carl the Llama Posted 23 October 2012 Posted 23 October 2012 To be fair to Waggy: He was obviously only used tonight to keep Vardy fresh for Saturday - same reason Nuge went off slightly earlier. So taking into account that he's not first team by any means, how do those who were there rate him as first-choice backup?
Babylon Posted 23 October 2012 Posted 23 October 2012 To be fair to Waggy: He was obviously only used tonight to keep Vardy fresh for Saturday - same reason Nuge went off slightly earlier. So taking into account that he's not first team by any means, how do those who were there rate him as first-choice backup? Nugent went off injured. The sub was meant to be Waghorn but Nugent signalled the bench he needed to.
Carl the Llama Posted 23 October 2012 Posted 23 October 2012 Nugent went off injured. The sub was meant to be Waghorn but Nugent signalled the bench he needed to. Well... fine then. He's still 3rd choice ceteris paribus.
Mark_w Posted 23 October 2012 Posted 23 October 2012 I thought he looked like his old self for the first 20 minutes, the miss knocked his confidence, but it came in quickly on his weaker foot, yes he should have scored but it's understandable. His contribution all round was I felt quite good but he didn't really get himself another opportunity to make up for the miss and as Finnegan said he didn't release a couple of players as he should have in the second half. Good enough as third choice though and I don't think he looked that far behind the performances we've seen from Vardy this season.
Bluearmyfox28 Posted 23 October 2012 Posted 23 October 2012 Not good enough for a team challenging for promotion! Loan him out, give schlupp more of a go and get Le Fondre in on loan!
ScouseFox Posted 23 October 2012 Posted 23 October 2012 My nan's dead pet cat couldve scored that sitter he managed to miss. Class is permenant. He's not good enough.
Captain... Posted 23 October 2012 Author Posted 23 October 2012 His all round play tonight wasn't bad played some nice balls and won the ball back and have the defenders no time and space, the only complaint tonight was his composure in front of goal, decent effort from a free kick early on but after that miss, which wasn't an easy chance, but he should do better, and if it wasn't for his other misses recently, it would be easier to forgive. To be honest his confidence just looks shot in front of goal. Which is shame, he was better than Nugent today, but ultimately he failed in what he is supposed to do which is score goals.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.