Land of the free.

[sphericalfox]

This sad situation is merely the start of a growing endemic where the ante has been upped. Each subsequent spree of violence on innocent people will inevitably be worse, as desperate armed and mentally unstable social periphery outcasts want revenge for perceived ill treatment against them by their their families, friends and society at large.

Any gun laws either nationally or state by state will be hard fought against. Historically the Civil War in the States ensured that the right to bear arms be culturally emboldened on the psyche of the South especially of the US. This over time has spread to the MidWest and beyond. With a variety of politicos using this amendment in opposition to boost their grip on a paranoid public opinion, over last century plus, and more so in the age of 24hr news (see Fox), this has increased in magnitude and built up to a point of serious danger.

The mental logic is that if you reduce the access to guns, then you can not stop a government clearly looking to control them with a police state, and your ability to literally fight back. I suppose if you are badly educated you'll cling to the only weapon(s) you think that can possibly save you.

The media in the states has a lot to answer for this shit-stirring, and the long stretch of governments both locally and nationally for delivering a poor educational system, keeping a great number of individuals so thick that they'l believe whatever their told by their political leanings through an exceptionally biased media, that they've no idea that they are being used.

Of course there are conservative, educated individuals who love their guns too, and again cling to them, so they can defend their castles and rights, as though they were in the wild west.

It's sometimes difficult to grasp how young the US is, and how developmentally a society like it, has culturally so many similarities to the UK historically. It might be said that the US is really a 7 year old in the grand scope of the world, and is stamping its feet as its gets its own way, but that's for another thread.

Unfortunately, for me, this isn't the end of these types of acts in the States, but the slow increase, despite the gesturing and prospective interventions of the current government, this will happen again, somewhere, and someplace with tragic consequences.

[Alexikokopops]

These are all signs the end of the world is coming!!!

School killings in the US and China, paedogeddon in the UK. THE END IS NIGH

[Deucalion]

When the US Constitution was written there was probably a great need for citizens to bear arms.

There were the Canadians to the north, Britain still held forts in US territory and the North American Indians were not too chuffed about all their land becoming cattle ranches.

But...it is increasingly difficult to see how a bunch of right wing nutters can continue to resist legislation in the face of so many school children regularly butchered.

That said, this is what I want for Christmas...

http://www.real-gun.com/ak47.html

[Tielemans63]

Gutted. I know it's simplifying the issue massively but why can't these pathetic ****ers just take their own miserable lives and leave others to live theirs? What's to be gained? Hope he burns in hell.

[Finnegan]

So this is relevant again huh.

[David Guiza]

America isn't the only country in the world with such relaxed laws on guns, Switzerland for example do and yet gun crime there is so low that records aren't even kept. Obviously there is a huge difference between those two countries, but the point still stands. It goes without saying that the law needs to be changed, it's a no brainer, but you can't blame events like yesterday and Columbine solely on one law. Although there is clearly a large portion of the blame there.

[Jaspa]

Such a shame the guy killed himself, torture wouldnt even be the beginning :rage:

To many guns in and around America to simply take them away it would be carnage, maybe they should get everyone singing the same tune and have a real gun culture to weed out for phsycos, anything to prevent this happening again at any cost.

Incomprehensible Evil

[Captain...]

Blame is many fold in circumstances like this, how did a man so badly lose his way in the 'most advanced nation' in the world.

Do you remember the outcry when one teenage girl was shot in Pakistan? These were 20 kids, innocent, and now dead.

At least that had a motive or reason, as fvcked up as it was, but without knowing the motive or reason behind this it is hard to know where blame lies.

Is it with the society that promotes aspiration, and succeed at all costs mentality, failure is for the weak. Or is it with the media that rules and divides with fear, and promotes unattainable levels of beauty and the cult of the celebrity. Or the media that turns these killers into celebrities.

Is it with a healthcare system that prices people out of having mental health check-ups, and receiving therapy and grief/trauma counselling, amongst other basic health checks.

Is it with a nation where drugs easier to come by than alcohol and pornography.

Or is it because guns and ammo are very easy to come by.

As many have said, there are many other countries with equally lax gun laws, but with a negligible gun crime rate.

The fact he had a gun didn't make him kill anyone, it just have him the tools to do so. The problem with the states is that there seems a disproportionately high number of people who do end up wanting to kill lots of people.

Banning guns, or imposing tighter controls on guns will not change that, it may solve other problems, such as the high number of deaths by accident due to firearms being kept and used at home. But until they address the wider reaching problems within American society they are still going to create these homicidal maniacs, even if they limit their access to high powered automatic weaponry, but until they do stop creating these monsters they have to do something, and not giving them the means to kill lots of people in a very short space of time would be a start.

[21st Century Fox]

Another tragic incident ready to be pounced on by the gun-totting, conspiracy wingnuts who claim the recent spate of shootings have been staged by the Obama administration to force through gun control laws.

[sphericalfox]

This is only handguns, not automatic or high-powered rifles

[Carl the Llama]

This is only handguns, not automatic or high-powered rifles

"Last year" being sometime pre-1989?

[sphericalfox]

"Last year" being sometime pre-1989?

I'd say even if that is a considerably older poster than last year or even a decade ago, the point still stands.

[Carl the Llama]

I'd say even if that is a considerably older poster than last year or even a decade ago, the point still stands.

I wasn't saying it didn't - and I seriously doubt that photoshop job's from the Berlin wall era. I was just pointing out the very strange inclusion of the word "west" before Germany.

[sphericalfox]

I wasn't saying it didn't - and I seriously doubt that photoshop job's from the Berlin wall era. I was just pointing out the very strange inclusion of the word "west" before Germany.

There's an East Germany? :xmasblink:

[Carl the Llama]

There's an East Germany? :xmasblink:

Not anymore, no. (Well if we're being pedantic there's a west & east of Germany, but they haven't been separate states since just over a month after my birth...)

[sphericalfox]

Not anymore, no. (Well if we're being pedantic there's a west & east of Germany, but they haven't been separate states since just over a month after my birth...)

Shit man, I hope the Hoff knows about this.

[ADK]

Of course they should restrict guns ownership. Criminals don't obey laws, so forget criminals, let the police deal with them. How many of these massacres are carried out by criminals? They are almost always previously law abiding citizens who've just lost it for one reason or another, and thanks to no gun controls they have access to a lethal weapon. I can think of at least one occasion in my life already where if i had a gun i'd have gone out and tried to kill some people. Actually there's quite a few people i wouldn't mind shooting dead if i could get away with it.

[MikeyT]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mU-SLspioU

[Tom17LCFC]

Another shooting incident in Alabama today. Don't think there's been any deaths other than the gunman being shot dead by police.

It did cross my mind last night that we may see a few more incidents like this in the next few weeks with America surely ready to do something about it.

[ADK]

Thing is you could just aswell argue that ladders ought to be banned and cars definately.

That said i cannot really see the use of a hand gun or sub machine gun apart from killing other humans, and surely that ought to be left to law enforcement.

[Carl the Llama]

Thing is you could just aswell argue that ladders ought to be banned and cars definately.

That said i cannot really see the use of a hand gun or sub machine gun apart from killing other humans, and surely that ought to be left to law enforcement.

It's definitely. And as you go on to pretty much explain yourself, you really couldn't. Just as, for a more related example, you couldn't argue the banning of knives in the same way.

Continuing the pedantry - I take it you don't mean that killing other humans should be left to law enforcement? :xmasbiggrin:

[Guest MattP]

"Last year" being sometime pre-1989?

You could tell that was seriously out of date when it said 8 in Great Britain.

[Rincewind]

Not sure if the link is right. It's a condolence petition It goes back to show that I have signed not the petition page.

http://www.causes.com/actions/1715318?causes_ref=email&recruiter_id=70031193&template=activity_invitation_mailer%2Factivity_invitation&utm_campaign=invite&utm_medium=email&utm_source=causes

[purpleronnie]

You could tell that was seriously out of date when it said 8 in Great Britain.

We still have some of the lowest gun murder rates in the world so 8 or 40 the poster remains a valid comparison.

[Zingari]

We still have some of the lowest gun murder rates in the world so 8 or 40 the poster remains a valid comparison.

Really ?( 40 is about right)

Regardless of any comparison with other countries it surely it means gun murder/homicide rates have increased 5 fold .

i thought the place was supposed to be getting safer .