MooseBreath Posted 27 March 2013 Posted 27 March 2013 we've got a lot of good young players You think so? I don't think we have any good young players. The likes of Cleverly and Wilshere are just the next generation Michael Carrick. They will be able to hold their own in the prem in teams surrounded by quality players but as an international team they are weak. There is no stand out youth player, no player who I would say is good enough for a world cup winning team. We dont have one player close to that standard. This is one of the worst England teams I can remember. That's not Roy's fault, we just don't have any good players. The media will pump up any prospect we have but the reality is that we have become a very poor team who will need luck to even qualify for the world cup, never mind do anything while there. I think it's time some people woke up to this new reality. We are now a mid-tier country and the likes of Montenegro are a good match for us.
Mark 'expert' Lawrenson Posted 27 March 2013 Posted 27 March 2013 Overated and over paid, shambolic in the second half, substituions should of been made much earlier, where was Scott Parker? thought this game would of been made for him, had to be a better option than Cleverley. I realise we dont have the biggest pool of players to choose from anymore but surely we can do better than this!
purpleronnie Posted 27 March 2013 Posted 27 March 2013 You think so? I don't think we have any good young players. The likes of Cleverly and Wilshere are just the next generation Michael Carrick. They will be able to hold their own in the prem in teams surrounded by quality players but as an international team they are weak. There is no stand out youth player, no player who I would say is good enough for a world cup winning team. We dont have one player close to that standard. This is one of the worst England teams I can remember. That's not Roy's fault, we just don't have any good players. The media will pump up any prospect we have but the reality is that we have become a very poor team who will need luck to even qualify for the world cup, never mind do anything while there. I think it's time some people woke up to this new reality. We are now a mid-tier country and the likes of Montenegro are a good match for us. We do have good players coming through but so what? Are they any better than the spanish, or dutch, german etc........doubt it, hell there's top class youngsters coming out of countries like belguim....I can't see anything changing for England anytime soon. That's why i think we should lower expectations and understand that perhaps the 1/4 finals of a major tournament is actually a success for us.
foxfanazer Posted 27 March 2013 Posted 27 March 2013 We do have good players coming through but so what? Are they any better than the spanish, or dutch, german etc........doubt it, hell there's top class youngsters coming out of countries like belguim....I can't see anything changing for England anytime soon. That's why i think we should lower expectations and understand that perhaps the 1/4 finals of a major tournament is actually a success for us. Totally agree we should lower expectations. As u say 1/4 finals is about our level for now and anything else is a bonus. Don't think the majority of England fans will accept that but the transfer policy in this country means its very difficult to produce top English players. Don't know much about academies or centre of excellence's but we are not producing enough are we? Teams like Spain and Germany have been through their transition period now and look the real deal and I think we have to do the same, whether that means us underachieving for the next couple of tournaments or not.
AyewJoking Posted 27 March 2013 Posted 27 March 2013 You could say Montenegro are worthy opponents as we are close to their level but they were just a team driven, hard working, had a few players who could keep the ball and wanted it more than us. We bottled it. that concerns me most. Cleverly and Carrick arent world beaters but they're capable of better than last night surely. Hodgson should have sent us out there with fire in the belly. We started well but looked clueless and scared especially in that shameful second half.
davieG Posted 27 March 2013 Posted 27 March 2013 I remember one of the key reasons put forward for justifying the creation of the Premier League was that it would result in better English players and more success at international level for the England team.
foxfanazer Posted 27 March 2013 Posted 27 March 2013 You could say Montenegro are worthy opponents as we are close to their level but they were just a team driven, hard working, had a few players who could keep the ball and wanted it more than us. We bottled it. that concerns me most. Cleverly and Carrick arent world beaters but they're capable of better than last night surely. Hodgson should have sent us out there with fire in the belly. We started well but looked clueless and scared especially in that shameful second half. We should've been out of sight after 20 mins but after that we just say deeper and deeper which was really strange.I think Wilshere is the "fire in the belly" sort of player we need but others need to step up. Another thing that concerned me was Welbeck, I rate the guy as a good premiership striker and is probably worthy of getting in the squad. The problem for me is how deep he plays, I know he did a job for United against Madrid in that role by nullifying Xavi Alonso but is it necessary to do it all the time. Did he need to do that against Montenegro? Obviously this is more of a criticism of Hodgson than Welbeck
notnow john Posted 27 March 2013 Posted 27 March 2013 I think we need to find out why the ball turns into a balloon when it goes near Lescott.
marbelladave Posted 27 March 2013 Posted 27 March 2013 Sometimes I really do question Hodgson leadership, we've got a lot of good young players but for me every since Roy as took over, we haven't seen much potential from them, i also don't think he encourages them enough. If England don't qualify then Hodgson should be sacked! and if that does happen then I think the Fa should appoint somebody young with fresh ideas and no matter of there nationality. Almost there L'pool, just need to think it all the way through........ England's current squad is mediocre, even compared to the 'Golden Generation', which preceded it, too many players who have tried and failed at this level so many times before or are now in terminal decline. It is hard to freshen up such a team with young players if those young players are not getting games at the highest level, either for club or country which is the case at present. I am pretty sure that Hodgson would love to ditch all the old guard and bring through a much younger side but without experience such a side would struggle to qualify, how much is open to debate, but not qualifying for Brazil is not an option, the FA demands it. So whatever rebuilding Hodgson wants to do is secondary to the task of qualifying and if that means trying to coax a couple more decent games out of players long past their best, then so be it. Whatever you think of them as individuals, it is hard to see a very modest Montenegro getting past Ferdinand and Terry in central defence, preferably with Parker sitting in front of them. It saddens me to say that had they been fit and willing England would have won that game. It has been pointed out that our young players are not that good, but how do we know? So few of them play regularly, particularly in the biggest games that they are simply not developing. Look at Sturridge for example, sits on the bench going nowhere for a season and a half then, when getting regular starts, starts to look like a real player. Had he been playing regularly for the last year or so he might actually be international class, who knows?
AyewJoking Posted 27 March 2013 Posted 27 March 2013 I think we need to find out why the ball turns into a balloon when it goes near Lescott. why do you always blow things out of proportion. (yes i highlight my clever puns now because im afraid theyre too witty and subtle and im not getting recognition)
foxfanazer Posted 27 March 2013 Posted 27 March 2013 why do you always blow things out of proportion. (yes i highlight my clever puns now because im afraid theyre too witty and subtle and im not getting recognition) Clever?
ScouseFox Posted 27 March 2013 Posted 27 March 2013 Saw someone on Twitter say yesterday that even if we both qualify for the WC bookies will probably have us at about 10/1 and Montenegro at about 300/1 to win it. Just shows how much overexpectation there is.
Fox92 Posted 27 March 2013 Posted 27 March 2013 Failed to change it around when it was obvious Montenegro were coming back into the game. As I said though, and as expected, it was a tough game when Montenegro got back into it and we were lucky not to lose.
marbelladave Posted 27 March 2013 Posted 27 March 2013 Failed to change it around when it was obvious Montenegro were coming back into the game. As I said though, and as expected, it was a tough game when Montenegro got back into it and we were lucky not to lose. Change what to what though? Parker off the bench may have been an option but he has hardly played this season. Apparently Gerrard was asked (told, invited?) to play deeper but, as usual when given defensive responsibility, couldn't be arsed. Gerrard should have been replaced by Parker but this is England, that was never going to happen. Similarly Roony should have been replaced by someone with a bit of pace, Sturridge maybe, but with no pace in forward areas we were unable to threaten on the break so Montenegro could press forward with impunity. Poor night all round.....
Samilktray Posted 27 March 2013 Posted 27 March 2013 Steven Gerrard is probably the most overrated England player.
marbelladave Posted 27 March 2013 Posted 27 March 2013 Steven Gerrard is probably the most overrated England player. Along with Rooney who only bothered to play for about 10 minutes. I know he can have his moments and he does score a few goals but when it really matters he contributes very little, last night was fairly typical, good for about 7 minutes, a couple of good touches later in the first half, a complete waste of space thereafter.
whoareyaaa Posted 27 March 2013 Posted 27 March 2013 I Blame the manager leaving it until the 75th to make a change when clearly England we're getting out played and losing possession all the time. Parker and Lampard should have came on. Milner absolutely dreadful should never start for England, offers the team nothing apart from a slight bit of defensive cover. the points we're there for the taking but poor decisions from the manager has cost us in the end.
kingfox Posted 27 March 2013 Posted 27 March 2013 Milner absolutely dreadful should never start for England, offers the team nothing apart from a slight bit of defensive cover. How many games has he started under Hodgson, would be interesting to find out, got to be a good majority. Piss poor player like Gareth Barry for England, but the problem with Milner is that they put him out wide with Johnson, which hardly ever works. That right side for England is diabolical.
marbelladave Posted 27 March 2013 Posted 27 March 2013 How many games has he started under Hodgson, would be interesting to find out, got to be a good majority. Piss poor player like Gareth Barry for England, but the problem with Milner is that they put him out wide with Johnson, which hardly ever works. That right side for England is diabolical. Pretty much all the competitive games I think. He is played wide to cover Johnson getting forward, just another example of how, tactically, we are light years behind any decent international side. Bringing on Lampard and Parker may have helped but the main problem we had second half was the total lack of any forward threat, Montenegro could pile everyone forward and did so, the goal was inevitable. We needed forward players who could make runs and counterattack at pace, we had no one who could do that so Montenegro could take off a fullback and bring on another attacking player. In reality Lampard and Parker are no more the answer than Gerrard and Carrick, we desperately need new blood but with qualification in the balance we are not going to get it. Apropos not vert much, why are all our better young(ish) players always injured? Cahil, Dawson, Jones, Rodwell, Wilshire, Lennon, Walcott and probably others......
Tom17LCFC Posted 27 March 2013 Posted 27 March 2013 I don't rate Johnson at all, would much rather see Walker play at RB. And why Cole came in for Baines is beyond me.
kingfox Posted 10 May 2013 Posted 10 May 2013 Gabby for England. Alright Leicesterpool. Villa impressing you lately I see?
Pride_Of_The_Midlands Posted 16 May 2013 Posted 16 May 2013 Same old same old from Roy Hodgson. Welbeck over Agbonlahor. Oxlade-Chamberlain over McManaman.
Fox92 Posted 16 May 2013 Posted 16 May 2013 Don't rate Welbeck at all personally. McManaman should be included. It's the same old, it always seems like they overlook players if they don't play for the 'bigger' clubs.
Jimothy Posted 16 May 2013 Posted 16 May 2013 McManaman has probably been left out due to being in the U21 Euro 2013 squad.
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