The state of modern football - Is top 4 in the premier league 'Realistic' for us?

[Corky]

I'd take the Europa League, still feel bitter and annoyed that our runs ended just as they started in the Uefa Cup.

[Finnaldo]

No. 7th is the highest we can go, and that's pushing it. If we go up we should attempt to emulate Southampton. A top ten place is possible, but the only way we'll get Europe is through the cup.

[cityfanlee23]

Anything can happen over 30 years.

 

1984  Final positions

 

Pos Team Pld   W D L F A   W D L F A   F A GD   Pts Notes 1 Liverpool 42   14 5 2 50 12   8 9 4 23 20   73 32 +41   80 European Cup 1984–85 First round ^{[notes 1]} 2 Southampton 42   15 4 2 44 17   7 7 7 22 21   66 38 +28   77 UEFA Cup 1984–85 First round 3 Nottingham Forest 42   14 4 3 47 17   8 4 9 29 28   76 45 +31   74 UEFA Cup 1984–85 First round 4 Manchester United 42   14 3 4 43 18   6 11 4 28 23   71 41 +30   74 UEFA Cup 1984–85 First round 5 Queens Park Rangers 42   14 4 3 37 12   8 3 10 30 25   67 37 +30   73 UEFA Cup 1984–85 First round 6 Arsenal 42   10 5 6 41 29   8 4 9 33 31   74 60 +14   63 7 Everton 42   9 9 3 21 12   7 5 9 23 30   44 42 +2   62 UEFA Cup Winners' Cup 1984–85 First round 8 Tottenham Hotspur 42   11 4 6 31 24   6 6 9 33 41   64 65 –1   61 UEFA Cup 1984–85 First round ^{[notes 2]} 9 West Ham United 42   10 4 7 39 24   7 5 9 21 31   60 55 +5   60 10 Aston Villa 42   14 3 4 34 22   3 6 12 25 39   59 61 –2   60 11 Watford 42   9 7 5 36 31   7 2 12 32 46   68 77 –9   57 12 Ipswich Town 42   11 4 6 34 23   4 4 13 21 34   55 57 –2   53 13 Sunderland 42   8 9 4 26 18   5 4 12 16 35   42 53 –11   52 14 Norwich City 42   9 8 4 34 20   3 7 11 14 29   48 49 –1   51 15 Leicester City 42   11 5 5 40 30   2 7 12 25 38   65 68 –3   51 16 Luton Town 42   7 5 9 30 33   7 4 10 23 33   53 66 –13   51 17 West Bromwich Albion 42   10 4 7 30 25   4 5 12 18 37   48 62 –14   51 18 Stoke City 42   11 4 6 30 23   2 7 12 14 40   44 63 –19   50 19 Coventry City 42   8 5 8 33 33   5 6 10 24 44   57 77 –20   50 20 Birmingham City 42   7 7 7 19 18   5 5 11 20 32   39 50 –11   48   21 Notts County 42   6 7 8 31 36   4 4 13 19 36   50 72 –22   41   22 Wolverhampton Wanderers 42   4 8 9 15 28   2 3 16 12 52   27 80 –53   29  

 

Southampton 2nd, Forest 3rd 30 years ago, so I wouldn't say it's "impossible", but it's definitely very long-term.

 

Interesting stats there!

 

I'm not saying Nige will be here in 15+ years (That would be a story eh!) But atleast we have a strong platform to build on, with owners willing to back the manager with whatever he wants to spend, But we have a manager not willing to buy for the sake of buying!

[cityfanlee23]

No. 7th is the highest we can go, and that's pushing it. If we go up we should attempt to emulate Southampton. A top ten place is possible, but the only way we'll get Europe is through the cup.

 

 

What do you think spending will be like in 20 years fin?

 

Do you think people will still be on 150-200k pw? I personally think those days will be gone in 20 years, and think there will be caps like in the MLS..

[sylofox]

Anything can happen over 30 years.

 

1984  Final positions

 

Pos Team Pld   W D L F A   W D L F A   F A GD   Pts Notes 1 Liverpool 42   14 5 2 50 12   8 9 4 23 20   73 32 +41   80 European Cup 1984–85 First round ^{[notes 1]} 2 Southampton 42   15 4 2 44 17   7 7 7 22 21   66 38 +28   77 UEFA Cup 1984–85 First round 3 Nottingham Forest 42   14 4 3 47 17   8 4 9 29 28   76 45 +31   74 UEFA Cup 1984–85 First round 4 Manchester United 42   14 3 4 43 18   6 11 4 28 23   71 41 +30   74 UEFA Cup 1984–85 First round 5 Queens Park Rangers 42   14 4 3 37 12   8 3 10 30 25   67 37 +30   73 UEFA Cup 1984–85 First round 6 Arsenal 42   10 5 6 41 29   8 4 9 33 31   74 60 +14   63 7 Everton 42   9 9 3 21 12   7 5 9 23 30   44 42 +2   62 UEFA Cup Winners' Cup 1984–85 First round 8 Tottenham Hotspur 42   11 4 6 31 24   6 6 9 33 41   64 65 –1   61 UEFA Cup 1984–85 First round ^{[notes 2]} 9 West Ham United 42   10 4 7 39 24   7 5 9 21 31   60 55 +5   60 10 Aston Villa 42   14 3 4 34 22   3 6 12 25 39   59 61 –2   60 11 Watford 42   9 7 5 36 31   7 2 12 32 46   68 77 –9   57 12 Ipswich Town 42   11 4 6 34 23   4 4 13 21 34   55 57 –2   53 13 Sunderland 42   8 9 4 26 18   5 4 12 16 35   42 53 –11   52 14 Norwich City 42   9 8 4 34 20   3 7 11 14 29   48 49 –1   51 15 Leicester City 42   11 5 5 40 30   2 7 12 25 38   65 68 –3   51 16 Luton Town 42   7 5 9 30 33   7 4 10 23 33   53 66 –13   51 17 West Bromwich Albion 42   10 4 7 30 25   4 5 12 18 37   48 62 –14   51 18 Stoke City 42   11 4 6 30 23   2 7 12 14 40   44 63 –19   50 19 Coventry City 42   8 5 8 33 33   5 6 10 24 44   57 77 –20   50 20 Birmingham City 42   7 7 7 19 18   5 5 11 20 32   39 50 –11   48   21 Notts County 42   6 7 8 31 36   4 4 13 19 36   50 72 –22   41   22 Wolverhampton Wanderers 42   4 8 9 15 28   2 3 16 12 52   27 80 –53   29  

 

Southampton 2nd, Forest 3rd 30 years ago, so I wouldn't say it's "impossible", but it's definitely very long-term.

Since then 10 of the teams in that league have been in the third tire or lower.

[Trav Le Bleu]

Since then 10 of the teams in that league have been in the third tire or lower.

 

Us

[sylofox]

Us

1 for starters and the other 9?

 

2 others I am not sure about as well.

[cityfanlee23]

Since then 10 of the teams in that league have been in the third tire or lower.

 

 

Us

 

Think most of those teams had the wrong platforms for the game back in those days, I think Nigel has us on a steady ship for the current situation... We could of been bolton this season.. but instead, We are leicester!

[Bayfox]

In short no.

Due to FFP we have already missed the boat compared to the likes of Chelsea and Man City.

We are also not a big enough city to support a team with such aspirations, we have a big drawing rugby club on our doorstep so support for our teams is already split.

by this I mean, london and manchester for example are bigger city,s with more going on, meaning larger population also players are more likely to want to move there than Leicester or Sunderland for example. Or say somewhere like Liverpool that has 2 clubs, but is a football city, we have a divide between 2 sports we could just never pay the wages these other clubs do.

The top 4 is destined to be for the likes of Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal, look at the size of the grounds/crowds they can draw on, even Liverpool or tottenham who have a shot at changing it, just lose star players as soon as they miss out.

Even with mega bucks being ploughed in we just don't have the supporter base and an attractive enough city to get players to move, every time we found a gem, they would eventually move on, if Utd can't keep ronaldo and spurs bale then what chance us.

[Leeds Fox]

It's all well and good saying that massive investment (ala Man City) would give us a chance of competing with the top clubs, but there are quite a few clubs who would attract such money ahead of ourselves. Meaning if we were even the 5th club to get mega-rich owners, we'd still be about 10th in the pecking order for the title. Behind the already massive clubs, and the ones who attracted investment before we did.

All of that aside, it would be pretty special to be up there and able to compete with the best.

Edit: Pretty much what Bayfox said.

[Finnaldo]

What do you think spending will be like in 20 years fin?

Do you think people will still be on 150-200k pw? I personally think those days will be gone in 20 years, and think there will be caps like in the MLS..

I have no idea, although unless its UEFA that introduce capping as a whole, it's unlikely the Prem wil introduce caps on there own. If caps are introduced the best players will jump ship and if that was to happen, then it may well turn into a much more open league. However the powerhouses may well just add ludicrous signing on bonuses even more so than now.

With Sky on their back I don't think the Prem would ever accept or voluntarily enforce a cap. Without top quality in the league, it would probably take air time away from the Prem to other foreign leagues and with a dwindling TV deal the league would collapse on itself.

Too far in I'm afraid. Attempting caps would most likely be financially crippling itself at this stage, ironically.

[Trav Le Bleu]

1 for starters and the other 9?

 

2 others I am not sure about as well.

 

Forest

Southampton

QPR

Watford

West Brom

Notts Cty

Wolves

Luton

Sunderland (who were in the old 3rd div a mere 3 seasons later!)

 

Edit - Stoke and Norwich too

 

And Birmingham.... more than you would think.

[Mack]

We will never ever be a side who would challenge for top 4 on a regular basis.

In one 'freak' season it could happen, but we simply don't have the fan base or infrastructure as a club to sustain that for any longer.

[Jon the Hat]

FFP creates more of a closed shop for the current crop of rich clubs, not less.  They already spent the money on stadia, on huge talented squads and future stars.  Not sure any club can ever catch up under FFP. 

[Manwell Pablo]

Forest

Southampton

QPR

Watford

West Brom

Notts Cty

Wolves

Luton

Sunderland (who were in the old 3rd div a mere 3 seasons later!)

 

Edit - Stoke and Norwich too

 

Cov

And as said us

 

so that's 13

 

Pretty sure Brum have been down there to need to check

 

EDIT: Yep, 14

[Finn Claw II]

In 30 years time all the big clubs will be playing in a European super league.... so yes we could win what is left of the Premier League!

 

We are a large city but not massive - I hate to say it but Leeds (Bradford is also a massive city), Birmingham and Sheffield should all have a big club challenging near the top of the Premiership.  I also think London is so massive it could support another large club.

 

I'd be quite happy playing good entertaining football against all the big teams.

[davieG]

Even if we were richer not that we would be that attractive to even richer owners we'd struggle to attract the top coaches, players and their families to Leicester FFS even Essex girl Victoria Beckham turned her nose up at Leicester.

 

It's not just money that makes London, Manchester and Liverpool 'successful'.

[brockmyster]

In my opinion most financial caps etc in place basically serve to keep the status quo. The money coming in from abroad for TV rights etc is all because people worldwide want to see your man uniteds, chelsea, liverpool etc. Arguably only people who are English fans or support teams from the football league would like to see teams like stoke, ourselves, leeds, norwich etc, pull out some unbelievable season for the Top 4, where as the abroad money spinning deals will mainly be wanting the already established teams, meaning we are stuck in a rut where i think the top 7 prem teams will remain that for a long time, apart from the odd season slip up

[suffolk fox]

No

[davieG]

How long before the the top 4/6 along with the other top teams in Europe have their own TV deals creating an even bigger financial gap.

[Sharpe's Fox]

What an embarrassing thread, no wonder other clubs fans see us as arrogant.

[foxfanazer]

What an embarrassing thread, no wonder other clubs fans see us as arrogant.

Yeah really arrogant starting a hypothetical thread that is really about the state of modern football more than it is about us

[Kitchandro]

Lee, honestly mate, stop with the threads.

[Trav Le Bleu]

Lee, honestly mate, stop with the threads.

 

What's wrong with his clothes?

[Guest shearfox]

Man City were playing in League one not that long ago, I would never say never but I would be happy to get us into a top half prem side like under O'Neill...