Teachers Strike March 26th

[fleckneymike]

If you say so. Sounds a very reasonable number of hours to me.

It sounds reasonable to you to work every week of the year?

[MooseBreath]

It sounds reasonable to you to work every week of the year?

No, quite clearly teachers don't work every week of the year. If you average the hours out over a normal 47 week working year it's still only 47 hours per week. That is very, very reasonable in my opinion.

[Parafox]

No, quite clearly teachers don't work every week of the year. If you average the hours out over a normal 47 week working year it's still only 47 hours per week. That is very, very reasonable in my opinion.

 

Really??

 

47 hours a week when the maximum basic hours allowed under the EU working time directive is 40? Unless an individual chooses to opt out.

 

So you believe it's reasonable to work 7 hours per week unpaid? That may well be fine for you in an undemanding job with no targets or performance objectives, who can laze about in meetings contributing, it seems, little to the discussion yet having so much to say on an internet forum.  (I have to assume this as you , for some reason that I can only imagine is to shield yourself from mockery, refuse to disclose your job).

 

By the way today is my rest day so i'm allowed.

 

For the record I am contracted to work a total of 1695 hours per year. I don't get paid meal breaks, annual leave or bank holidays. If I want any additional time off I have to drop, then repay shifts. Am I underworked? It's fewer weekly hours than a teacher pro-rata but is genuinely 52 weeks per year at work.

[Webbo]

Really??

 

47 hours a week when the maximum basic hours allowed under the EU working time directive is 40? Unless an individual chooses to opt out.

 

 

I thought it was 48 hours?

[Parafox]

Sorry I misread 40 instead of 48.

 

From GOV.UK:

 

Workers don’t usually have to work more than 48 hours a week on average, unless they choose to.

Some sectors have specific rules for their own workers.

Normal working hours should be set out in the employment contract or written statement of employment details.

[MooseBreath]

Really??

47 hours a week when the maximum basic hours allowed under the EU working time directive is 40? Unless an individual chooses to opt out.

So you believe it's reasonable to work 7 hours per week unpaid? That may well be fine for you in an undemanding job with no targets or performance objectives, who can laze about in meetings contributing, it seems, little to the discussion yet having so much to say on an internet forum. (I have to assume this as you , for some reason that I can only imagine is to shield yourself from mockery, refuse to disclose your job).

By the way today is my rest day so i'm allowed.

For the record I am contracted to work a total of 1695 hours per year. I don't get paid meal breaks, annual leave or bank holidays. If I want any additional time off I have to drop, then repay shifts. Am I underworked? It's fewer weekly hours than a teacher pro-rata but is genuinely 52 weeks per year at work.

To answer your question, yes, I think it is a very, very reasonable number of hours. As I said before, you can continue to try and score cheap points off me if you like, it doesn't change the fact that teachers really aren't working an excessive number of hours.

[Jon the Hat]

An average 48 hour week is not unreasonable in a professional salaried position. Teachers don't do too badly financially. I wouldn't want the stress personally though, and it is an important job. I suspect the dissatisfaction is less about money and more about feeling undervalued overall.

[leicsmac]

An average 48 hour week is not unreasonable in a professional salaried position. Teachers don't do too badly financially. I wouldn't want the stress personally though, and it is an important job. I suspect the dissatisfaction is less about money and more about feeling undervalued overall.

Pretty much nail on head. You don't get into teaching for the dough, there's far easier graduate jobs out there that offer more. You do it because you're idealistic and genuinely want to help people. I do think stress and being judged by both politicians and public alike who have little idea of the various stresses the job entails (though they do have the right to complain if they so wish as tax payers) is what has led to this, rather than the actual reason given.

Between having to keep up with meddling administrations applying frequent unwarranted changes to education policy for the sake of winning a few votes and a public whipped up by media misinformation to be far more interested in what teachers do wrong than what they do right, I recon feeling pretty undervalued is inevitable.

Look at it this way, they're getting all the criticism of bankers, for about one tenth of the pay. ;-)

[Rincewind]

Security is one profession that may you require to work plus 40. In that you are on duty throughout your shift even when taking tea breaks. Even on days off you could get a call to cover for someone who is sick or absentee.To be honest I had it pretty easy at the places I worked but there would be some security companies where you are active throughout your shift. Mine was sitting in an empty office reception area or factory for 12 hours with a hourly walk around so like Moose I had plenty of time for FT.

Maybe he does security. It is only stressful if things kick off. In the office taking the hourly check calls would give him plenty of time.

[MooseBreath]

Pretty much nail on head. You don't get into teaching for the dough, there's far easier graduate jobs out there that offer more. You do it because you're idealistic and genuinely want to help people. I do think stress and being judged by both politicians and public alike who have little idea of the various stresses the job entails (though they do have the right to complain if they so wish as tax payers) is what has led to this, rather than the actual reason given.

Between having to keep up with meddling administrations applying frequent unwarranted changes to education policy for the sake of winning a few votes and a public whipped up by media misinformation to be far more interested in what teachers do wrong than what they do right, I recon feeling pretty undervalued is inevitable.

Look at it this way, they're getting all the criticism of bankers, for about one tenth of the pay. ;-)

All perfectly legitimate complants of the sort that could be raised by pretty much anyone with a job. Enough reason to strike? Not for me. And if they are the reasons for striking, why not say that, rather than making up a complaint about having to do masses of hours? If you want to be respected and supported by the public then not lying would be a good start. I got taught that principle in primary school.

[Charl91]

All perfectly legitimate complants of the sort that could be raised by pretty much anyone with a job. Enough reason to strike? Not for me. And if they are the reasons for striking, why not say that, rather than making up a complaint about having to do masses of hours? If you want to be respected and supported by the public then not lying would be a good start. I got taught that principle in primary school.

 

Good job you're not the one striking then.

[Jon the Hat]

Security is one profession that may you require to work plus 40. In that you are on duty throughout your shift even when taking tea breaks. Even on days off you could get a call to cover for someone who is sick or absentee.To be honest I had it pretty easy at the places I worked but there would be some security companies where you are active throughout your shift. Mine was sitting in an empty office reception area or factory for 12 hours with a hourly walk around so like Moose I had plenty of time for FT.

Maybe he does security. It is only stressful if things kick off. In the office taking the hourly check calls would give him plenty of time.

 

Security is not a profession Ken. 

 

"A paid occupation, especially one that involves prolonged training and a formal qualification"

[leicsmac]

All perfectly legitimate complants of the sort that could be raised by pretty much anyone with a job. Enough reason to strike? Not for me. And if they are the reasons for striking, why not say that, rather than making up a complaint about having to do masses of hours? If you want to be respected and supported by the public then not lying would be a good start. I got taught that principle in primary school.

 

From what I can tell they've actually been pretty clear and honest with the official reason given to strike - the pensions. Though I think many teachers are tying in general frustration with political interference in there too and are seeing it as a general ^&%$ you to Gove and company. I'm not sure how much they're saying working hours come into it beyond breaking the daft commonly-held misconception that teachers work less hours overall than most private sector workers.

 

I actually think they shouldn't have taken strike action either purely because of what it does to public opinion and the way the media portray it. The moment any public sector even considers such action the howls of "workshy buggers, join us in the private sector" etc begin to ring out, and the message normally gets lost anyway, so it's ineffective IMO.

 

Going back to the hours, once it's evened out they do work perhaps slightly more than your Average Joe in his 9 to 5, but I think the actual stresses of the job are far higher in teaching than in your average office job, the lessened likelihood of actually getting sacked in the former notwithstanding. If you screw up in your office job, most of the time it's just a 'quiet' word with the boss in his/her office and that's normally it. You screw up in a teaching job, you've got 30 adolescents laughing in your face, with probably more to follow in the days to come. Not to mention constant unneeded changes to the curricula in order to garner votes by people who have never taught a day in their lives, many parents who either seem intent on letting you do their job for them or insisting they know more about teaching than you do, and trying to remain on the good side of every child you teach, because if you don't they have the capacity in this day and age to make your life hell.

 

In short, teaching is a much more publicly scrutinised area of work than most jobs, and that lends more stress. But the good lessons and good times make it totally worth it for many many people.

[Captain...]

Further to what LeicsMac said, it is such an intense job, when you are in the classroom, you can't switch off, you can't drop your guard, you can't set your status to do not disturb or busy, or just ignore your phone calls or e-mails for a while, you can't go over and chat up the receptionist or discuss your office fantasy football league, you can't go to the pub for lunch on Friday, or have a bit of down time on FT you have to be there, you have to be switched on and you have to concentrate.

 

It is exhausting in a way that being in Office isn't, even those with client facing jobs you can always bluff a bit, buy some time while the powerpoint loads or even just be honest and admit you have made a mistake, brought the wrong file, because you are dealing with adults, if you make a mistake in front of clients they are not going to jeer and whistle and laugh at you.

 

For those office workers dismissing teachers, just think how much preparation you put into leading a 1 hour meeting, or a training session or a sales pitch, how much time you spend on your presentations or training material, or preparing reports and figures, and the nervousness before a big meeting, the intensity of leading a meeting, but also the exhilaration when it goes well and the disappointment when it has gone poorly. Now multiply that out by 5 times a day 5 days a week.

[MooseBreath]

So what? That's the job, you know before you get into teaching that teaching involves teaching. There is no justification for striking there at all.

[Guest MattP]

Jesus.

Teachers actually live in a different world to everyone else.

[Buce]

So what? That's the job, you know before you get into teaching that teaching involves teaching. There is no justification for striking there at all.

And when they got into teaching, they were set to retire at 60, getting an agreed pension for agreed payments; this government has arbitrarily torn-up those agreements.

There is every justification to strike on those issues alone.

[Guest MattP]

And when they got into teaching, they were set to retire at 60, getting an agreed pension for agreed payments; this government has arbitrarily torn-up those agreements.

There is every justification to strike on those issues alone.

If they were stupid enough to believe the country could afford those pensions it's frightening they will be teaching my children.

It does show how dangerous certain governments are though when they promise things they can't deliver just to try and stay in power.

[Buce]

If they were stupid enough to believe the country could afford those pensions it's frightening they will be teaching my children. .

That's a ridiculous thing to say; they are teachers, not economic forecasters.

[fleckneymike]

If they were stupid enough to believe the country could afford those pensions it's frightening they will be teaching my children.

It does show how dangerous certain governments are though when they promise things they can't deliver just to try and stay in power.

No it doesn't.

[Guest MattP]

That's a ridiculous thing to say; they are teachers, not economic forecasters.

The pension offered under Broon cost about 250% more on the private market.

If they can't figure out where that ends I think I can see why so many of our youth are completely hopeless.

[fleckneymike]

The pension offered under Broon cost about 250% more on the private market.

If they can't figure out where that ends I think I can see why so many of our youth are completely hopeless.

I never knew Gordon Brown invented the Teachers Pension Schene.

I must say you learn something new every day.

[Rincewind]

Security is not a profession Ken. 

 

"A paid occupation, especially one that involves prolonged training and a formal qualification"

A security officer requires a SIA card. Even doormen once known as bouncers need one. Also football stewards require training in health and safety.

[FoxesAreBlue]

A security officer requires a SIA card.

Not exactly hard though is it, I could have one this time next month.

You must be over 18 to hold an SIA licence. You must also pass our criminality checks and have completed the required level of training.

We may also look at your mental health and your right to work in the UK, as well as any other information that may be offered to us or which we have from our own sources.

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[MooseBreath]

£220 nice little stealth tax on an occupation there. Well done labour. The working man's party they said. Make work pay they said. Oh by the way you need to pay us hundreds of pounds for a totally meaningless license they said.