Dan LCFC Posted 18 September 2014 Share Posted 18 September 2014 I swear English sides have turned to utter shit in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 18 September 2014 Share Posted 18 September 2014 I swear English sides have turned to utter shit in Europe. The standard of our league really has declined b over the last few years. Chelsea could win it by 15 points this season and they would probably have to settle for 4th place in Spain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadt Posted 18 September 2014 Share Posted 18 September 2014 It's scandalous how many people think that the prem is the best in the world. It's probably the strongest in the sense that the bottom half is better than anybody else's but how many of the worlds best players play here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 18 September 2014 Share Posted 18 September 2014 It's scandalous how many people think that the prem is the best in the world. It's probably the strongest in the sense that the bottom half is better than anybody else's but how many of the worlds best players play here? I think anyone who thinks the bottom half is stronger is mad. The EPL is absolutely garbage from about 10th place down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadt Posted 18 September 2014 Share Posted 18 September 2014 I think anyone who thinks the bottom half is stronger is mad. The EPL is absolutely garbage from about 10th place down.In Spain and Germany the bottom halves are worse, I'd expect us and Burnley to beat Eibar and Deportivo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 18 September 2014 Share Posted 18 September 2014 In Spain and Germany the bottom halves are worse, I'd expect us and Burnley to beat Eibar and Deportivo. Agree on Germany, not on Spain. I've only watched Eibar once so far but the Depor side I've seen I think would comfortably beat Burnley over a number of games. I'm more confident of us surviving this season in the EPL than I would be of us surviving in Spain. The skill level even at lower half teams like Malaga and Granada I found incredible at times last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadt Posted 18 September 2014 Share Posted 18 September 2014 Agree on Germany, not on Spain. I've only watched Eibar once so far but the Depor side I've seen I think would comfortably beat Burnley over a number of games. I'm more confident of us surviving this season in the EPL than I would be of us surviving in Spain. The skill level even at lower half teams like Malaga and Granada I found incredible at times last season. I don't think there's much in it tbh but anyway we agree that the leagues not the best, what I dislike about the prem is how predictable it is, I'd be massively surprised if last seasons top 7 isn't this seasons top 7. In Spain and Germany you'll occasionally get a club that overachieves and qualifies for the CL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan LCFC Posted 18 September 2014 Share Posted 18 September 2014 It's hard to ever really judge but whilst our bottom half has probably multiple times what the others have paid out in wages, I'm seriously not sure that the quality is there. Spanish & German sides (in-particular Spanish) play far better as teams for me. The Premier League is over-rated and it's gone downhill. When was the last time this league had a genuine 'elite' side? Chelsea of 2011/12 won the Champions League but I certainly wouldn't have described them as an elite side playing like Greece did at Euro 2004 (not knocking them for it). This Chelsea side could potentially be a top side but none of the others seriously make me think they could be. Man Utd if they sort out their defence and get their attackers clicking. I just don't find it a co-incidence that our teams seem to struggle every year now. I'll no doubt get people telling me 'its one match day' but this happens far too often for it to be a fluke. Not sure how we've managed to slip considering how much money we chuck around too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak_lcfc Posted 18 September 2014 Share Posted 18 September 2014 English clubs really finding it a slog in the Champions League again. Expect to see all four clubs park the bus whenever they come against either Spanish or German opposition home or away.Chelsea and Man City play one another this weekend, easy to see why they might not have gone all out!I think it's the premier league that does it, would say most these team have one eye on the Premier League weekend fixtures during these games, it's easier for Germans and Spanish as their leagues are 2 and 3 horse races in England the competition is harder in my opinion, someone posted on twitter last night that the weekend after every CL game for Man City they have a 'top 6' opponent (correct me if I'm wrong sure i was right) whereas teams like Barca and Bayern who have much easier leagues don't have as much as a worry La Liga is nowhere near are strong, there is about 6 good teams in there and Bundesliga has about 4 (not counting Schalke's poor start), the premier league is faster paced and more physical, teams should with the money they have be able to add depth but who will want to play for a team just to bench warm until cups? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandad. Posted 18 September 2014 Share Posted 18 September 2014 Chelsea and Man City play one another this weekend, easy to see why they might not have gone all out! I think it's the premier league that does it, would say most these team have one eye on the Premier League weekend fixtures during these games, it's easier for Germans and Spanish as their leagues are 2 and 3 horse races in England the competition is harder in my opinion, someone posted on twitter last night that the weekend after every CL game for Man City they have a 'top 6' opponent (correct me if I'm wrong sure i was right) whereas teams like Barca and Bayern who have much easier leagues don't have as much as a worry Good point, very well made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak_lcfc Posted 18 September 2014 Share Posted 18 September 2014 Good point, very well made. Didn't phrase it the best granted, but I don't agree with many others saying La Liga and Bundesliga are stronger leagues both have quality teams for certain but out of the top 5-6 they have some very terrible teams within their division, I would agree that the way English teams play is not as effective as the ways in which Bayern and Real Madrid can play when they play well and that their play styles translate better to European cup competitions than the likes of Man City and Chelsea In the past decade English teams have won it 3 times only Spanish teams have won it more not exactly the worst record for a country that has declining teams, When Bayern won it they were easily the best team in Europe at the time and they still lost the Man City in the group stages but people weren't saying German football is lacking, one game in a group stage doesn't mean teams are on the decline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandad. Posted 18 September 2014 Share Posted 18 September 2014 Didn't phrase it the best granted, but I don't agree with many others saying La Liga and Bundesliga are stronger leagues both have quality teams for certain but out of the top 5-6 they have some very terrible teams within their division, I would agree that the way English teams play is not as effective as the ways in which Bayern and Real Madrid can play when they play well and that their play styles translate better to European cup competitions than the likes of Man City and Chelsea In the past decade English teams have won it 3 times only Spanish teams have won it more not exactly the worst record for a country that has declining teams, When Bayern won it they were easily the best team in Europe at the time and they still lost the Man City in the group stages but people weren't saying German football is lacking, one game in a group stage doesn't mean teams are on the decline. Mate, I wasn't being sarcastic, completely agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 18 September 2014 Share Posted 18 September 2014 Looking at the bookmakers odds the Spanish league is a 3 horse race and the English one is a 2 horse race this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky Posted 18 September 2014 Share Posted 18 September 2014 someone posted on twitter last night that the weekend after every CL game for Man City they have a 'top 6' opponent (correct me if I'm wrong sure i was right) Well, unless you consider Aston Villa, West Ham, QPR, Southampton and Leicester as top 6 sides they were wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak_lcfc Posted 18 September 2014 Share Posted 18 September 2014 Well, unless you consider Aston Villa, West Ham, QPR, Southampton and Leicester as top 6 sides they were wrong My bad it was Chelsea that had to play the tougher games after their CL fixtures: after the next 3 CL fixtures they have to play Arsenal, United and Liverpool that surely plays a part on their qualifying campaign? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandad. Posted 18 September 2014 Share Posted 18 September 2014 Looking at the bookmakers odds the Spanish league is a 3 horse race and the English one is a 2 horse race this season. After 5 games.. Last season: Premier League's 4th spot finished 7 points behind the Champions and 5th spot 14 adrift. La Liga's 4th spot finished 20 points behind the Champions and 5th spot finished 27 points adrift. Plus the runners up in England finished closer to the Champions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKCJ Posted 18 September 2014 Share Posted 18 September 2014 The Premier League is the best in terms of cumulative quality (say if you were going to rate every team out of 10 and add the total up) but there are plenty of sides scattered about Europe that would be expected to beat the top English sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 18 September 2014 Share Posted 18 September 2014 After 5 games.. Last season: Premier League's 4th spot finished 7 points behind the Champions and 5th spot 14 adrift. La Liga's 4th spot finished 20 points behind the Champions and 5th spot finished 27 points adrift. Plus the runners up in England finished closer to the Champions. They did, also the Spanish league also went down to the last second of the last minute with the two teams fighting for it playing in the same match, it was wonderful. It's about time the EPL allowed 'big clubs' to play each other on the last day of the season as well so we could enjoy that. I still think the Spanish league is stronger, they have 3 teams that could win the PL, we have none that could win la Liga. Out of the eight semi finalists in Europe last season Spain had 4 out of the 8 (and that probably would have been 5 had Barca not drew Atletico in the CL quarters). The team that finished bottom of the league in Spain got to the Europa League quarter finals . Real Sociedad were the only Spanish team to exit European competition out of the 8 that qualified that were knocked out by non-Spanish opposition. I'm not having that sides like West Brom, Palace, Stoke, Hull, (knocked out already of Europa by Lokeren ) are that superior than anything in the lower reaches of Spain. The league clearly has more depth than any other when it's looked at through statistics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandad. Posted 18 September 2014 Share Posted 18 September 2014 They did, also the Spanish league also went down to the last second of the last minute with the two teams fighting for it playing in the same match, it was wonderful. It's about time the EPL allowed 'big clubs' to play each other on the last day of the season as well so we could enjoy that. I still think the Spanish league is stronger, they have 3 teams that could win the PL, we have none that could win la Liga. Out of the eight semi finalists in Europe last season Spain had 4 out of the 8 (and that probably would have been 5 had Barca not drew Atletico in the CL quarters). The team that finished bottom of the league in Spain got to the Europa League quarter finals . Real Sociedad were the only Spanish team to exit European competition out of the 8 that qualified that were knocked out by non-Spanish opposition. I'm not having that sides like West Brom, Palace, Stoke, Hull, (knocked out already of Europa by Lokeren ) are that superior than anything in the lower reaches of Spain. The league clearly has more depth than any other when it's looked at through statistics. I agree mate, but the top three in Spain are a joke, ridiculously good. La Liga is having their boom just like the EPL did 05-09, that is when the Premier League was the best and they were dominating in Europe as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan LCFC Posted 18 September 2014 Share Posted 18 September 2014 one game in a group stage doesn't mean teams are on the decline. Three quarter finalists in 3 years does. Granted, Chelsea did actually win it in 2012 but I've said it many a time, you'd compare them winning that to Greece winning the Euros given their style of football. They were never a top side that season. For them to win it that year was nothing short of miraculous, they're far stronger now. For what it's worth I think over the last ten years we're definitely up there as we were genuinely brilliant between around 2005-2010 (those years may be wrong but it was some time around then). If you look at the last few, in-particular the last three, we've been an absolute mile behind Spain & Germany. An absolute mile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan LCFC Posted 18 September 2014 Share Posted 18 September 2014 Looking at the bookmakers odds the Spanish league is a 3 horse race and the English one is a 2 horse race this season. I'd say two horse race is generous. I'm seriously struggling to see who's challenging Chelsea. Man City will probably come second but they don't look all that convincing to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-man Posted 18 September 2014 Share Posted 18 September 2014 I think people read far too much into the success of league's representatives in the CL as a barometer for the overall strength of a league. Take this week for example. German sides have picked up seven points to our one in the three inter-league ties this week: - Dortmund ran all over Arsenal, who looked underprepared but were short in defensive cover. To be fair, I think only two or three sides in the world could've coped with Dortmund that night. When they're in that mood with the atmosphere as it is, they are nigh on unplayable. - Bayern supposedly were good value for their win over City but again you are asking a lot of any side to go to the Allianz and win. Munich have won 14 opening CL games - they know how to get it done. - I went to Stamford Bridge last night (don't ask why as I fvcking hate Chelsea and Schalke) and it kind of confirmed something I have been thinking for a while now: English teams workrate just isn't there at times. Schalke should not be able to take a point at what is clearly the best side in England - they are 16th in the Bundesliga and lost a cup tie to Dynamo Dresden FFS. But they did. Because they grafted hard. Depleted by injuries but they gave it absolutely everything and deserved the draw massively. Chelsea just didn't play with the same intensity as they do in the PL and it cost them. That intensity was the common theme throughout all three games, and for me it is down to two things: 1) The German sides respecting the CL more at an early stage. Bayern know that success in the CL is their only metric for a successful season and Schalke/Dortmund know they cannot take any game for granted else they'll be out. 2) The intensity from the crowd is mirrored on the pitch. Talk about special European nights at English grounds all you like but places like Stamford Bridge, the Etithad and the Emirates simply do not have the fear factor that other European sides can generate and inspire their own side with. Schalke's away fans gave it everything last night. In their minds, there was no way their side was going to let them down. In contrast, Chelsea's lot just stood there in relative silence singing 10 German Bombers and a ripped off song (Didier Drogba tralalala - are you kidding?) every now and then. They even sang 'Oh Dennis Wise, scored a fvcking great goal at the San Siro'. There's lifting songs and then there's that. It doesn't even rhyme It's a fvcking retarded argument as to which is the best league. Clearly the one with twice as much money as the rest should be (and probably just about is - wow that's something to be proud of) but there's an awful lot wrong with the way we run football in this country and with the resources we have at our disposal we should really be doing better. Learning from other countries rather than continually pointing to the TV deals and claiming it's simply a bad patch would be a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandad. Posted 18 September 2014 Share Posted 18 September 2014 Is that Drogba 'chant' C-Man like our 'We are Liverpool tra la la la'? Wankers. Also did you notice last night the Chelsea flag people? The ones who are waving them massive flags that do look quite good but they are being waved by people with 'staff' on the back of their jackets.. Cringe club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEGGSY Posted 18 September 2014 Share Posted 18 September 2014 Is that Drogba 'chant' C-Man like our 'We are Liverpool tra la la la'? Wankers.Marseille sang it for Drogba before he moved to Chelsea.But yeah, it's that song Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandad. Posted 19 September 2014 Share Posted 19 September 2014 Marseille sang it for Drogba before he moved to Chelsea. But yeah, it's that song Wankers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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