BlueSi13 Posted 3 April 2015 Posted 3 April 2015 Quick question, if the Conservatives go on to receive the largest number of votes as projected but are then blocked from forming a government, will that be the first time in British political history that that will have happened to the 'winner' of an election?
johnny the fox Posted 3 April 2015 Posted 3 April 2015 Quick question, if the Conservatives go on to receive the largest number of votes as projected but are then blocked from forming a government, will that be the first time in British political history that that will have happened to the 'winner' of an election? it ain't votes that count its seats..
Webbo Posted 3 April 2015 Posted 3 April 2015 Quick question, if the Conservatives go on to receive the largest number of votes as projected but are then blocked from forming a government, will that be the first time in British political history that that will have happened to the 'winner' of an election? No, it's happened before. Most recently in 1974.
Alf Bentley Posted 3 April 2015 Posted 3 April 2015 Quick question, if the Conservatives go on to receive the largest number of votes as projected but are then blocked from forming a government, will that be the first time in British political history that that will have happened to the 'winner' of an election? No, happened to Attlee's Labour in 1951 and Heath's Tories in Feb. 1974. Both got more votes but fewer seats What hasn't happened post-WW2 (I think) is for the government to be formed by a party that hasn't won the most seats - and that might happen this time, if Con & Lab are close in seat numbers, Con narrowly ahead but well short of a majority, SNP do well and Lib Dems do very badly.
leicsmac Posted 3 April 2015 Posted 3 April 2015 The Game of Seats: Westminsteros Edition http://www.moo.com/blog/2015/04/02/game-of-seats-the-competition-of-westminsteros/ Some fun ones there. Thoroughly enjoying the Tory/Lannister connection.
fleckneymike Posted 3 April 2015 Posted 3 April 2015 No. I thought Cameron was the best last night, that's all. I'm certainly left wing but the Greens are let down by some weak policies and I could never vote for Natalie, Labour are let down by Milliband. Could you really imagine that man making decisions about going to war? He'd probably have two cameras set up so he could turn to the other to say "Now I'm Prime Minister We're going to war" I think the Liberals do have some good ideas but Clegg can't be trusted. The Conservatives at the moment are probably more left wing than Labour were under Blair but they haven't been good for my profession and I couldn't bring myself to vote for them. Blair was a winner. Victory came at a cost and as you say this conservative govt are usually left of Blair.
Buce Posted 3 April 2015 Posted 3 April 2015 I was less than impressed by Julie Wotsername; she had little control, constantly allowing people to butt in, and to continue speaking past their allotted time.
Alf Bentley Posted 3 April 2015 Posted 3 April 2015 Match ratings: Sturgeon 8: Calm & forceful, concise & assertive; spoke less than most but got points across better; WOM Miliband 7.5: Articulated some policies well & dynamically; closed off some criticisms well; not at all the liability he was expected to be - should lose the Blair-style fake sincerity & staring down camera, though Farage 7: Formal format didn't suit him, but got his immigration points across well without seeming too extreme (mostly); didn't articulate much beyond that, though, so largely preaching to the converted Cameron 6.5: Some good pre-prepared mini-speeches (esp. closing speech); a bit lacklustre, though; mainly on the defensive with few positive ideas moving forward (trying to be an authoritative 'safe pair of hands', I assume) Clegg 6: Started strongly but tailed off badly into verbose, sanctimonious guff; would make a good vicar Bennett 6: Some good points & better than before (not saying much!) but not snappy enough & slightly nervous; Greens cocked up replacing Lucas, who would have been more Sturgeon-like & could have won them a few seats Wood 5: The sexiest woman leader (sorry, mid-life crisis) but poorest performer; Why-did-she-say-every-word-slowly-and-separately-so-that-you-couldn't-understand-her-point?! Overall, probably NOT a game-changer, particularly as memories will be dim in 4-5 weeks time. However, as one of the Tories' main hopes was that a naturally prime-ministerial Cameron would out-perform an unconvincing Miliband, even a score draw is good news for Labour (& I thought Miliband shaded it v. Cameron). Can see now why the Tories tried to avoid the debates. I wonder if Cameron's ratings will suffer if he avoids the last debate and the others highlight the fact? Miliband performing fairly well will also be a morale boost for Labour troops on the ground, as they'll have been half-expecting him to do badly. That could matter as they need enthusiastic troops on the ground in constituencies to counter-balance the Tories having more cash to spend on campaigning. All the smaller parties probably shored up their existing support without extending it by winning voters from anyone else. If you're big on immigration/EU or the environment/redistribution, you'll probably vote UKIP or Green; if not, you probably won't. An impressive Sturgeon did nothing to cause SNP support to drift back to Labour - can see them winning loads of seats. I agree with Matt about Carswell: I saw him on Newsnight a few weeks back and thought he was very impressive (and I'm obviously not a supporter). He managed to talk convincingly about issues beyond EU/immigration (where Farage struggles) and put across right-wing positions without coming across as extreme. I can see him being a big player if there's a political realignment in the coming years. UKIP and the Greens would probably have achieved a bigger breakthrough if led by Carswell & Lucas. A couple of other interesting performances during a night of political TV watching: - Peter Hitchens was on sparkling form on Question Time, slating Tory and Labour alike & talking about the potential for them both to collapse in the coming years - David Lammy came across well on This Week - personable, articulate & independent-minded; a much better potential London mayor candidate for Labour than Abbott or Jowell
Guest MattP Posted 3 April 2015 Posted 3 April 2015 Don't disagree with too much at all there Alf. Hitchins was absolutely magnificent wasn't he on QT? I enjoyed Lammy - far more likeable and sensible than Diane Abbott and clearly far less racist. The more I think about last night the more pointless it seems - I think you need someone there to ask questions, you had the minor parties just offering changes to austerity but never having to actually back up how they are going to pay for it. Leanne Wood actually seemed to think the books were balanced. we're 1,400 billion in debt and still are spending 80 billion a year more than we take in tax.
sphericalfox Posted 3 April 2015 Posted 3 April 2015 Any of these debates or audience interviews are primarily guff. Without a solid manifesto where their plans and policies are published and are evident for the public firstly to scrutinse, then the whole circus is a pointless one. Currently there are gaping holes in all of the parties' rhetoric and until I see something in black and white with details of how exactly they are going to go about things, will I be making up my mind. And yes I'm well aware that the coalition government had to make compromises to their plans, therefore if another coalition is required the same will happen again, but there are always manifestos outside of coalition governments who renege on their promises once they've got their votes and are in the door.
johnny the fox Posted 3 April 2015 Posted 3 April 2015 Any of these debates or audience interviews are primarily guff. Without a solid manifesto where their plans and policies are published and are evident for the public firstly to scrutinse, then the whole circus is a pointless one. Currently there are gaping holes in all of the parties' rhetoric and until I see something in black and white with details of how exactly they are going to go about things, will I be making up my mind. And yes I'm well aware that the coalition government had to make compromises to their plans, therefore if another coalition is required the same will happen again, but there are always manifestos outside of coalition governments who renege on their promises once they've got their votes and are in the door. Think they should scrap all this debate stuff and get their knobs out and see who's packing... sturgeon would win that no doubt.
Dr The Singh Posted 3 April 2015 Posted 3 April 2015 Think they should scrap all this debate stuff and get their knobs out and see who's packing... sturgeon would win that no doubt.I agree, I wouldn't mind seeing the welsh birds tits though
SMX11 Posted 3 April 2015 Posted 3 April 2015 Peter Hitchens was at his marvellous best on QT. I particularly liked his analogy about the Conservatives and Labour being two corpses propped up against eachover and once one falls the over quickly follows. He has the particular ability of coming to the crux of the issue and cut through the political spin fired at the general public. On Farage, he clearly is quite pragmatic about Ukip's chances. He has taken the punt of sticking to the couple of issues that he believes he has the advantage over the other parties and not dilute his message so that they can get around half a dozen seats and some incumbency for the next election.
purpleronnie Posted 3 April 2015 Posted 3 April 2015 Just wondered if the Tory's now believe they will strike a deal with UKIP after the GE. I said all along they would do this yet tories on here said they wouldn't I still hope they don't but power is the ultimate goal. Like I have said before if that happens my interest in politics would end.
Stevosevic Posted 3 April 2015 Posted 3 April 2015 What happens if neither Conservative or Labour hit a majority and no other party is prepared to enter a coalition government?
purpleronnie Posted 3 April 2015 Posted 3 April 2015 What happens if neither Conservative or Labour hit a majority and no other party is prepared to enter a coalition government? I believe the governement that won the most seats would rule as a minority government. But this used to mean a 2nd GE soon after but I don't think they can call for another one anymore meaning they would have to wait 5 years, I can't see that working so a Coalition will happen.
Stevosevic Posted 3 April 2015 Posted 3 April 2015 I believe the governement that won the most seats would rule as a minority government. But this used to mean a 2nd GE soon after but I don't think they can call for another one anymore meaning they would have to wait 5 years, I can't see that working so a Coalition will happen. Thanks. I'm finding it hard to call this time
Guest Posted 3 April 2015 Posted 3 April 2015 If I heard correctly Cameron denounced Clegg for picking and choosing which government initiatives he criticised saying something like he was part of them all (I didn't watch the debate only an account of it), if that's the case shouldn't Clegg be getting as much credit for anything positive as Cameron? I fail to understand how a slug like Cameron has come out of this session reasonably well and a more honest man like Clegg and the Libs have come out of the session so disastrously badly.
davieG Posted 3 April 2015 Posted 3 April 2015 Leaders debate: Ex-Leicester City striker Gary Lineker calls Ukip's Nigel Farage 'a d***' By Leicester Mercury | Posted: April 03, 2015 Gary Lineker called Ukip's Nigel Farage 'a d***' ITV The leaders debate was viewed by 7 million Former Leicester City striker Gary Lineker waded into the Twitter debate on the political party leaders debate last night by calling Ukip leader Nigel Farage "a d***". The Match Of The Day presenter tweeted: "Always reluctant to offer a political view, but Farage is a d***!" Gary Lineker ✔ @GaryLineker Follow Always reluctant to offer a political view, but Farage is a dick! However, the Leicester-born 54-year-old was not the only footballer to offer their opinion on the debate. QPR midfielder Joey Barton tweeted: No point Nick Clegg being there, Jimmy Savile would get more votes than him... There were 1.5 million tweets last night about the debate which averages at 8,657 posts-per-minute. The political debate on ITV was watched by 7 million people last night and featured David Cameron (Conservative), Ed Miliband (Labour), Nick Clegg (Liberal Democrats), Nigel Farage (Ukip), Natalie Bennett (Green), Nicola Sturgeon (SNP) and Leanne Wood (Plaid Cymru). A number of polls released immediately after the programme showed that there was no clear winner in the debate. Guardian / ICM pollMiliband – 25%; Cameron – 24%; Farage – 19%; Sturgeon – 17%; Clegg – 9%; Bennett – 3%; Wood –2%.YouGovSturgeon – 28%; Farage – 20%; Cameron – 18%; Miliband – 15%; Clegg – 10%; Bennett – 5%; Wood –4%.ComResCameron – 21%; Farage – 21%; Miliband 21%; Sturgeon – 20%; Clegg – 9%; Bennett – 5%; Wood – 2%. Read more: http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Leaders-debate-Ex-Leicester-City-striker-Gary/story-26277179-detail/story.html#ixzz3WFlmSYMl Follow us: @Leicester_Merc on Twitter | leicestermercury on Facebook
Guest MattP Posted 3 April 2015 Posted 3 April 2015 Just wondered if the Tory's now believe they will strike a deal with UKIP after the GE. I said all along they would do this yet tories on here said they wouldn't I still hope they don't but power is the ultimate goal. Like I have said before if that happens my interest in politics would end. Why? Because you didn't get your own way? How sad and pathetic. It won't happen anyway - UKIP are only going to get a handful of seats at the most. Not enough to prop up the Tories. I'm up for this Labour/SNP coalition - it ends with the Labour party dying up north and starts the end of it in England. We can then lose Scotland from the union 'by accident'.
Guest MattP Posted 3 April 2015 Posted 3 April 2015 Peter Hitchens was at his marvellous best on QT. I particularly liked his analogy about the Conservatives and Labour being two corpses propped up against eachover and once one falls the over quickly follows.It was fantastic.Loved his point about the NHS as well - it's the life jacket around the Labour party that if they let go leads to them sinking and losing any relevance in British politics.
Jimothy Posted 3 April 2015 Posted 3 April 2015 Just catching up on the debate now. It's been totally ruined by Etchingham. Without fail every time someone challenged a particular person she stood in and blocked the response, so it just ended up being a mess. I understand that Cameron, Milliband and Clegg are going to be the ones that get challenged most, but every time it happened and you were hoping they'd get chance for a quick retort, she'd butt in and hand it over to Wood or Bennett who'd spend the next 2 minutes wittering on about something irrelevant.
Guest MattP Posted 3 April 2015 Posted 3 April 2015 Watching the highlights again and why didn't anyone take on Sturgeon last evening? She was impressive but her record is disastrous, her economic predictions are fairytales, her health and education policies are dragging Scotland down, but no one bothered to question her assertions that everything could be sorted with a wave of her magic wand. It really was bizarre - looks to me like Labour and the Lib Dems have gave up on Scotland just like the Tories now.
MooseBreath Posted 3 April 2015 Posted 3 April 2015 Just wondered if the Tory's now believe they will strike a deal with UKIP after the GE. I said all along they would do this yet tories on here said they wouldn't I still hope they don't but power is the ultimate goal. Like I have said before if that happens my interest in politics would end. Surely if you've any confidence in your views you'd relish the opportunity to be proven right about why such an arrangement would be bad for the country? That's how I will feel if labour/snp happens. Seems a bit cowardly to opt out of the debate on judgement day, like you're afraid of being proved wrong?
Webbo Posted 3 April 2015 Posted 3 April 2015 Just wondered if the Tory's now believe they will strike a deal with UKIP after the GE. I said all along they would do this yet tories on here said they wouldn't I still hope they don't but power is the ultimate goal. Like I have said before if that happens my interest in politics would end. I don't remember anyone on here saying that. It wouldn't bother me if they did.
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