Shinji Okazaki

[cityfanlee23]

You say so much its hard to reply .....

 

When I said   "if it aint broke don't fix it "  I am referring to the fact that we are doing very well with the team choices CR has made, and that includes SO.  Leo is another similar option for that role.   Its not a fvcking argument and its not crap !  Course we want to improve but how do we do that before the transfer window opens !!!!!!!

 

And just to cap it all you then say (see above) ....  "we do look more balanced with him in"  !!!!!!!   Make your mind up !!  

 

Was not trying to argue with you, was more in reference to those that call anyone with constructive criticism "moaners" on other threads, the amount of times I've seen "We are ****ing 5th ffs" or "we are ****ing 3rd ffs stop moaning" is ridiculous.

 

I did make my mind up, I said we look better with him in the squad, but also pointed out we need better. 

As I did with nugent.

[cityfanlee23]

No, it is an agenda. You want to paint Okazaki in a bad light so you've gone out of your way to prove that.

I want you to post the Vardy stats as I'm almost positive that he won't be the 'winner' in each area.

I thought that Nugent was a good player but we received an offer we couldn't turn down. People think we can only ever sign people that play every week. Okazaki is a fine squad player, its ****ing embarrassing that people who pretend to know their football can't appreciate that.

 

You're just talking crap now. 

 

I've appreciated about 5 times now he's a good squad player and we are more balanced with him in it. Does not mean he does not need to improve, because right now, He's no better than Nugent. 

You say an offer we "could not refuse" yet we paid double for someone who'd never played English football, and is only a year younger. 

[AKCJ]

You're just talking crap now. 

 

I've appreciated about 5 times now he's a good squad player and we are more balanced with him in it. Does not mean he does not need to improve, because right now, He's no better than Nugent. 

You say an offer we "could not refuse" yet we paid double for someone who'd never played English football, and is only a year younger.

But you're taking as though we need to start signing world class players.

Fact is we are 3rd and playing the best attacking football this club has ever played and some pretty piss poor defending.

Yes, if we want to do the treble or something ridiculous then we definitely do need to replace him. But to finish in the top ten (which would be an over achievement) we definitely don't need to replace him.

For a lad that doesn't speak the language and has played about 8 games worth of English football, i'd say he's settled into pretty irrelevant league football very well. He absolutely is an upgrade on Nugent. Your pathetic 'stats and facts' show nothing. Please post the facts for the likes of Vardy and Aguero.

[cityfanlee23]

But you're taking as though we need to start signing world class players. 

Fact is we are 3rd and playing the best attacking football this club has ever played and some pretty piss poor defending.

Yes, if we want to do the treble or something ridiculous then we definitely do need to replace him. But to finish in the top ten (which would be an over achievement) we definitely don't need to replace him.

For a lad that doesn't speak the language and has played about 8 games worth of English football, i'd say he's settled into pretty irrelevant league football very well. He absolutely is an upgrade on Nugent. Your pathetic 'stats and facts' show nothing. Please post the facts for the likes of Vardy and Aguero.

 

I did not state we need to sign world class players at any point?

 

your debate that he's an upgrade on Nugent is your opinion, I respect it, I disagree. 

but as stated so many times on here, I'm giving okazaki the benefit of the doubt because of his limited time here.. However that does not mean you cannot criticize a players silly decisions, or average performances, I'm not doing it on the terraces, and the criticism is quite constructive from the majority on the forum. 

 

If the stats are pathetic then I'm wasting my time posting stats about Vardy and Aguero for your benefit aren't I.

[AKCJ]

I did not state we need to sign world class players at any point?

 

your debate that he's an upgrade on Nugent is your opinion, I respect it, I disagree. 

but as stated so many times on here, I'm giving okazaki the benefit of the doubt because of his limited time here.. However that does not mean you cannot criticize a players silly decisions, or average performances, I'm not doing it on the terraces, and the criticism is quite constructive from the majority on the forum. 

 

If the stats are pathetic then I'm wasting my time posting stats about Vardy and Aguero for your benefit aren't I.

I want you to prove that Aguero and Vardy (two forwards who have been in world class form this season) are better than Nugent and Okazaki in every area at which point I will happily hold my hands up.

Until then I'll continue to believe that they're utter bullocks.

[Countryfox]

Was not trying to argue with you, was more in reference to those that call anyone with constructive criticism "moaners" on other threads, the amount of times I've seen "We are ****ing 5th ffs" or "we are ****ing 3rd ffs stop moaning" is ridiculous.

 

I did make my mind up, I said we look better with him in the squad, but also pointed out we need better. 

As I did with nugent.

 

 

Constructive criticism is fine Lee but you then have to provide what is, in your opinion, an answer.   If you are saying Leo should play in stead of SO then fair enough ...   against some teams that may be true ...   and using them both in the same game (one subbing the other) is also a good option.  But for now we have imo NO other options....     so banging on about SO being crap is really just a waste of time.  These are the cards we have and thats all we have to play with ...    for now.     For me the big big danger is if anything happens to JV cus he is so so important to our team.   I would buy another striker the day that window opens.

[cityfanlee23]

I want you to prove that Aguero and Vardy (two forwards who have been in world class form this season) are better than Nugent and Okazaki in every area at which point I will happily hold my hands up.

Until then I'll continue to believe that they're utter bullocks.

 

So Hang on,

 

when I compared Okazaki and Ulloa, I was shot down because Ulloa was our "Main striker" so the stats were wrong, because you cannot compare 2 players in different positions...

Yet you now want me to do exactly that?

 

I made it fair and compared Nugent and Okazaki who played the same role, and nugents stats were superior bar 3 of 16. 

[AKCJ]

So Hang on,

 

when I compared Okazaki and Ulloa, I was shot down because Ulloa was our "Main striker" so the stats were wrong, because you cannot compare 2 players in different positions...

Yet you now want me to do exactly that?

 

I made it fair and compared Nugent and Okazaki who played the same role, and nugents stats were superior bar 3 of 16.

When did I say that? You can continue to stall all you like...

[cityfanlee23]

When did I say that? You can continue to stall all you like...

 

 

Look back on the thread, not you.. lot's of others. I'm not stalling I just cannot be bothered after doing it twice already, I can tell you that some of Okazaki's stats are superior to Vardy, so that will probably answer you, I know you wanted me to type it all up to just to pick one or 2 stats to prove that Okazaki is superior in a tiny way... 

 

Clearly obvious from the statement

"I want you to prove that Aguero and Vardy (two forwards who have been in world class form this season) are better than Nugent and Okazaki in every area at which point I will happily hold my hands up. "

 

So I'll save us both the hassle, theres some stats Okazaki has been more effective, the point being Nugent played the same role as Okazaki.. now you want me to compare him to Aguero to desperately pick out a stat like "OKAZAKI WINS MORE FREEKICKS THOUGH" 

 

I'm not wasting my time entertaining that. 

 

Compare Nugent to Okazaki and it speaks volumes. If you can't accept that, then we will have to agree to disagree because you're clutching at straws now, I compared 2 players, who played the same role for us. Nugent was more effective hands down.

 

Hopefully I'm proven wrong, I'm looking forward to it.

[MooseBreath]

Destroyed? Come on.... You're getting desperate now, you've been kissing Okazaki's arse for weeks now, You can keep defending him, that's fine, But in those 2 posts, TTFN posted some pretty bad stats himself like "Duels" which as others have pointed out is even more misleading than mine.

Okazaki came here as a goalscorer, consistently scoring double figures throughout his career bar 3 seasons at stuttgart where he was played out of position.

Now he is not scoring and playing a deeper role, people excuse his average performances because he "runs around" and is a "pest"

When the fact of the matter is, He does less with the ball than Ulloa.. So for a "Link up player" to do less than our "Main striker" from last season is pretty embarrassing for those defending him.

I'll say again as people like to forget on here, I HOPE HE PROVES ME WRONG.

We need it in january. This whole "If it aint broke don't fix it" argument is crap to be honest, Always improve, always progress. Our goal is to stay up, on that basis we don't need to sign anyone because we will achieve our goal without improving...

Comparisons are always difficult I understand that, but the point of the comparison, was that they are throwing okazaki a lifeline saying he's a "Link up player"

Yet he does less linking up than our "Main striker" from last season.

The comparison with regard to season was always going to be difficult to manage,

Okazaki' Stats are from this season,

Ulloa from last season, The fact is Ulloa has made 6 appearances and not even played 2 full games in that time, so that is completely not fair to compare as he's not even had a run this season,

Comparing to last season is fairer as okazaki has played quite alot this season, To make it even fairer, I put the stats per match, However I should have put per 90 metrics to make it even fairer, Even with that, in most cases Ulloa is actually even further superior with regard to "Linking up play"

So this argument that just because okazaki runs around more he adds more is pony,

Even if you round Ulloa' stats down, and okazaki's up, he's still off the mark per 90 minutes played, and has to improve massively to contribute what Ulloa did last season.

Still lot's of time to go, and I never said that he was not going to be good enough, just that he's not at the moment.

All this bullshit being said that I "Don't understand his role" I do. I just agree with what seems to be a majority that he doesn't do his role well enough, and our fans are throwing him a lifeline because he's a good character..

I would hardly say I've been kissing his arse, I just don't think his performances warrant the amount of criticism he gets and I'm not alone in that view.

Your kamikaze use of stats isn't helping your argument. Using forward passes to try and claim that Ulloa last season and shinji this season play the same role is absurd and I think you know it. Anyone who has been watching us play would know that's not true.

It's true that Okazaki came here with a good goalscoring record but he is clearly not being deployed as an out and out goalscorer by Ranieri. Whatever Okazaki is doing, Claudio clearly values it over the contribution Ulloa can make and it's not difficult to see why when you compare their respective styles and how they compliment our team.

Ulloa is a decent player, you would expect him to be slightly better than Okazaki in fact given that he cost more, and he is worth a place in the squad, but Okazaki suits our current successful style of play a lot better. It's something that you can't prove or disprove with dry stats, but people with the footballing vision required to see past the stats will tell you that Okazaki is a useful player and contributes a lot.

[AKCJ]

Look back on the thread, not you.. lot's of others. I'm not stalling I just cannot be bothered after doing it twice already, I can tell you that some of Okazaki's stats are superior to Vardy, so that will probably answer you, I know you wanted me to type it all up to just to pick one or 2 stats to prove that Okazaki is superior in a tiny way... 

 

Clearly obvious from the statement

"I want you to prove that Aguero and Vardy (two forwards who have been in world class form this season) are better than Nugent and Okazaki in every area at which point I will happily hold my hands up. "

 

So I'll save us both the hassle, theres some stats Okazaki has been more effective, the point being Nugent played the same role as Okazaki.. now you want me to compare him to Aguero to desperately pick out a stat like "OKAZAKI WINS MORE FREEKICKS THOUGH" 

 

I'm not wasting my time entertaining that. 

 

Compare Nugent to Okazaki and it speaks volumes. If you can't accept that, then we will have to agree to disagree because you're clutching at straws now, I compared 2 players, who played the same role for us. Nugent was more effective hands down.

 

Hopefully I'm proven wrong, I'm looking forward to it.

 

 

You're not entertaining it because you've already looked and found that the stats don't show favourability towards the likes of Vardy and Aguero.

 

Stats are virtually meaningless. It absolutely does not 'speak volumes'.

 

What does speak volumes is that Nugent can't get into a Championship side and Okazaki is the second choice striker for arguably the most potent strike force in the league.

[MC Prussian]

I did not state we need to sign world class players at any point?

 

your debate that he's an upgrade on Nugent is your opinion, I respect it, I disagree. 

but as stated so many times on here, I'm giving okazaki the benefit of the doubt because of his limited time here.. However that does not mean you cannot criticize a players silly decisions, or average performances, I'm not doing it on the terraces, and the criticism is quite constructive from the majority on the forum. 

 

If the stats are pathetic then I'm wasting my time posting stats about Vardy and Aguero for your benefit aren't I.

You could argue that it's again somewhat unfair to draw comparisons between Shinji Okazaki's first season in a new environment and with a new language to learn and Nugent's first one with us one level further down (in the Championship).

Two entirely different grounds to start from, I'd say.

 

One pretty much knew the leagues inside out, the other one is on one hand still trying to find his feet and only sees slightly more than half a game of pitch action on average.

 

Nugent also had his difficulties adapting to the standard of play in the Premier League initially - let's not forget he spent three campaigns away from the top flight before last season.

In that sense, I'd give Shinji Okazaki at least one full season to proof himself and then maybe start coming to more thorough conclusions.

[filbertstreet]

on one hand still trying to find his feet

he's pretty shit at that though

[Fox92]

he's pretty shit at that though

 

So was Vardy. Your point is?

[Guest Mee-9]

Remember the days we'd complain about Yakubu or Steve Howard not being good enough?

 

How times change. 

[Len Finsbury]

I think some people are getting hung up on this 'number 10' role.

 

a number 10 isn't a position on the field necessarily, it's a creative role within a team. Just because a player plays in the space between the midfield and the strikers, doesn't automatically make him your typical number 10.

 

Players in that position are either advanced midfielders or withdrawn strikers. Okazaki being the latter. He's been given a role to play (not a number 10) and to some extents and purposes is doing what is asked of him. From what I've seen, the creative side to that role plays second fiddle to the work rate and harassing that he's doing. Traditional number 10s are not known for their work rate when they don't have the ball.

[Fox92]

Remember the days we'd complain about Yakubu or Steve Howard not being good enough?

 

How times change. 

 

Even those two got unwarranted criticism. 

[fuchsntf]

Why all of a sudden, are some now having a dig at Huth, and carrying on this rubbish over Schmeichel.

# Huth Alot of fans were adament we needed him to sign for us in the summer

Well he did, and it was and still is a good signing.He has played damn well for us

and is a big part of the success so far.To me it was obvious he would have his good

And bad moments, a WClass CB he may not be, but a top PL one, he is, and he's doing

a top job for city.He hasnt been a mistake buy we should be regretting.I still hope we can

continue to see him for a couple of seasons more.Of course like any other CB he gets

beaten occasionally, but his overall play is well above average.

# Schmeichel, IMO too much detailed over the top negative analyse over his goalkeeping

from some of our fans....No1 his saves especially in the last 5 games has been just as

important to Vardy scoring, his performances has allowed to keep us in the top 5.

Again he isnt a great Wclass goalkeeper, but a top goalkeeper, doing his trade and giving

top performances, at an honest level.Some fans might throw names about, but just bandering

their opinions about on nothing that would guarrantee mass improvement. Look at some

other goalkeepers that have been mentioned as replacements, they have all let in poor goals,

then had great moments.

# So Huth and Schmeichel would be at the moment, tha last players I would want to replace.

*Shinji has just joined us, I would prefer Ulloa, and maybe Schlupp and Shinji being the ones

competing for that WB come midfield spot.We have seen Claudio prepared to use and sub

him in out accordingly. At the moment we are on a nice run, thats it nothing more, I say lets

see how we develope over the season, and what future performances these players can

deliver with this team.They have earnt that right..

[Babylon]

What are you on about? A pass is a pass is it not?

So why not just leave it as passes made rather than adding in two more pointless stats to bump up things he's "better at". Also, amount of passes... what does that even show? What matters is pass accuracy, or chances created and the like.

 

The argument from those defending Okazaki, is that he is a link up player primarily, therefore the pass does not matter which direction it's going in... his job is to keep possession by linking the play, if that means going backwards does it matter?

 

It doesn't matter, so why highlight it?

 

I'd rather have a successful backward pass to be safe than lose possession.... Okazaki was also tackled more than twice the amount Nugent was thus losing possession, should I take that out because it does not suit Okazaki?

It's not about not suiting FFS. It's about totally warping his stats with pointless ones. I could drag up 6 stats right here where he was better than Nugent...

 

 

You can't have it both ways, If you really want, I'll remove those 2 stats? Nugent is still hands down more effective in that same role.

You presume they are being asked to play exactly the same way aren't you. It seems pretty clear that Okazaki is being utilised by Ranieri slightly differently with much of his play about physicality, winning the ball back, holding it up, relieving pressure and so on.

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry you took the "this forum" comment so seriously, you could easily just have assumed I was not saying that every single person on this forum said the same, It looks like you picked that out for arguments sake, it's pretty obvious I'm not accusing everyone of saying Nugent was not good enough, clutching at straws to make a point on that one. 

Why would I assume that when it's not what you said.

 

Perhaps if you actually write what you mean people won't take it incorrectly. You said it end of story, don't mean it, don't say it.  Say, some people... even then you don't know it's the same people. You checked that out? No, you haven't. What you're doing is trying to insinuate some people incorrectly favour Okazaki, without the evidence to do so.

[AKCJ]

Why all of a sudden, are some now having a dig at Huth, and carrying on this rubbish over Schmeichel.

# Huth Alot of fans were adament we needed him to sign for us in the summer

Well he did, and it was and still is a good signing.He has played damn well for us

and is a big part of the success so far.To me it was obvious he would have his good

And bad moments, a WClass CB he may not be, but a top PL one, he is, and he's doing

a top job for city.He hasnt been a mistake buy we should be regretting.I still hope we can

continue to see him for a couple of seasons more.Of course like any other CB he gets

beaten occasionally, but his overall play is well above average.

# Schmeichel, IMO too much detailed over the top negative analyse over his goalkeeping

from some of our fans....No1 his saves especially in the last 5 games has been just as

important to Vardy scoring, his performances has allowed to keep us in the top 5.

Again he isnt a great Wclass goalkeeper, but a top goalkeeper, doing his trade and giving

top performances, at an honest level.Some fans might throw names about, but just bandering

their opinions about on nothing that would guarrantee mass improvement. Look at some

other goalkeepers that have been mentioned as replacements, they have all let in poor goals,

then had great moments.

# So Huth and Schmeichel would be at the moment, tha last players I would want to replace.

*Shinji has just joined us, I would prefer Ulloa, and maybe Schlupp and Shinji being the ones

competing for that WB come midfield spot.We have seen Claudio prepared to use and sub

him in out accordingly. At the moment we are on a nice run, thats it nothing more, I say lets

see how we develope over the season, and what future performances these players can

deliver with this team.They have earnt that right..

 

 

I'm just saying that they're out of form and they play in positions we don't really have a lot of depth in.

 

Right back is the main one, we do really need a right back who can play top 10 football. Then i'd look to bring in a new centre half because our current ones are underperforming. Then i'd look to bring in either someone who can come in and take the gloves off Kasper or make him sweat for them.

 

I thought Kasper played very well on Saturday. Doesn't mean we can't improve that position as I don't really believe he's good enough week in week out to be a top 10 keeper.

[Countryfox]

So why not just leave it as passes made rather than adding in two more pointless stats to bump up things he's "better at". Also, amount of passes... what does that even show? What matters is pass accuracy, or chances created and the like.

 

 

It doesn't matter, so why highlight it?

 

It's not about not suiting FFS. It's about totally warping his stats with pointless ones. I could drag up 6 stats right here where he was better than Nugent...

 

Screen Shot 2015-11-10 at 14.14.57.png

 

You presume they are being asked to play exactly the same way aren't you. It seems pretty clear that Okazaki is being utilised by Ranieri slightly differently with much of his play about physicality, winning the ball back, holding it up, relieving pressure and so on.

 

 

 

 

Why would I assume that when it's not what you said.

 

Perhaps if you actually write what you mean people won't take it incorrectly. You said it end of story, don't mean it, don't say it.  Say, some people... even then you don't know it's the same people. You checked that out? No, you haven't. What you're doing is trying to insinuate some people incorrectly favour Okazaki, without the evidence to do so.

 

 

That told him !

[ImBlue]

If Okazaki has been a disappointment to you, I'd hate to hear your views on our Andrej

You really don't want to, but as he's out of the team, it's an irrelevance.

[ImBlue]

.

[ImBlue]

I'm just saying that they're out of form and they play in positions we don't really have a lot of depth in.

Right back is the main one, we do really need a right back who can play top 10 football. Then i'd look to bring in a new centre half because our current ones are underperforming. Then i'd look to bring in either someone who can come in and take the gloves off Kasper or make him sweat for them.

I thought Kasper played very well on Saturday. Doesn't mean we can't improve that position as I don't really believe he's good enough week in week out to be a top 10 keeper.

Why the back track talking about depth and form? You said you'd replace kasper IN THE STARTING XI before Okazaki.

Unbelievable.

[cityfanlee23]

So why not just leave it as passes made rather than adding in two more pointless stats to bump up things he's "better at". Also, amount of passes... what does that even show? What matters is pass accuracy, or chances created and the like.

 

 

It doesn't matter, so why highlight it?

As I said, Take them away then.. Nugent still linked up play more....

 

It's not about not suiting FFS. It's about totally warping his stats with pointless ones. I could drag up 6 stats right here where he was better than Nugent...

 

Screen Shot 2015-11-10 at 14.14.57.png

 

For a start, that's only 5 stats that Okazaki is "Better at" Unless you count losing Tackles lost as a good thing?... secondly, You could argue that winning fouls is a good thing, I'd argue that a hell of a lot of them, are just him being weak and wasting possession IMO, Obviously you disagree.

 

You presume they are being asked to play exactly the same way aren't you. It seems pretty clear that Okazaki is being utilised by Ranieri slightly differently with much of his play about physicality, winning the ball back, holding it up, relieving pressure and so on.

 

They are playing practically the same role!! check past threads on Nugent! people gave him criticism last season, and so many people put up the same argument that he's not there to score goals because he was playing behind the striker instead of infront or along side them, he was the link between midfield and striker, so this is another Irrelevant post. Nugent done all these things, more often than not BETTER than okazaki.

 

 

 

Why would I assume that when it's not what you said.

 

I'd assume you'd not pick and  choose when to take things literally.

 

Perhaps if you actually write what you mean people won't take it incorrectly. You said it end of story, don't mean it, don't say it.  Say, some people... even then you don't know it's the same people. You checked that out? No, you haven't. What you're doing is trying to insinuate some people incorrectly favour Okazaki, without the evidence to do so.

 

does it bloody matter which individuals said what? do you want a list? the fact is you can trawl through old nugent threads and see the evidence that people who attacked him and critisized him said the same things as are now being said about Okazaki,  And the people that defended Nugent, said the same things that people are saying now about okazaki. 

The point was, We were more balanced with them both in the team, Nugent was not good enough in the end, Okazaki is following his path unless he improves significantly, If people want to make excuse after excuse that's fine, but with some of the arguments some people have put forward, you could make an excuse for every single player.

 

So many people are split on Okazaki, it's not just one for and everyone against, It's a huge split going on evidence of this thread, past threads and match day threads, which does speak volumes, clearly he's not doing enough for a large group of fans on here, I suppose they are all stupid, uneducated and don't understand football or his role though right?