Shinji Okazaki

[MooseBreath]

I think it's fair to say that in two posts ttfn has absolutely destroyed the increasingly desperate anti-Okazaki protesters. Close thread?

[ImBlue]

I think it's fair to say that in two posts ttfn has absolutely destroyed the increasingly desperate anti-Okazaki protesters. Close thread?

How? He is only really ahead on duels, which isn't hard considering everytime he gets the ball his second touch is a duel..

Oh and 0.3 interceptions per 90 minutes more, so 1 more in every 3-4 full games. And that makes affords him the luxury of not scoring, assisting, making hardly any key passes, making not many passes at all, next to zero shots at all.. Etc.

Yeah. Sure.

[Webbo]

If all a forward has to do is case down defenders and tackle you may as well play a midfielder next to Vardy. Strikers are supposed to score and Okazaki doesn't look like doing that.

[Thracian]

He did chip in with a half decent amount of goals though. I'm not saying Okazaki needs to bagging 20 goals a season but he should be getting around 10 imo to really justify his place in the team. Don't think he does enough else to justify his place without the odd goal here and there

 

He did chip in with a half decent amount of goals though. I'm not saying Okazaki needs to bagging 20 goals a season but he should be getting around 10 imo to really justify his place in the team. Don't think he does enough else to justify his place without the odd goal here and there

 

 

You mean like Kingy used to do!  

 I'd love to see stats for Okazaki and King put up including goals scored, pass completion, tackles won etc...and, no, I haven't seen them so I don't know how they compare.

The problem with King is that he doesn't make an art form of looking busy or spend lots of his time tacking on his backside or falling over claiming fouls.

I appreciate whats said about Okazaki's "closing down" but I'd doubt he's faster than King because neither are speed merchants. The difference is that King closes down while remaining upright.

He doesn't give unnecessary fouls away and would offer far more goal  threat if given the licence because he's one of the most natural goalscorers you'll see as a midfielder.

So many words about Okazaki but we were looking increasingly ragged and panicky until King came on and completely cooled the situation in the last 10 minutes...and not for the first time over the years.      

[shen]

Okazaki's performance last week went some way to convince me he adds something useful to the team.

As ttfn pointed out, we were far more on the front foot in the second half, which was among other things down to Okazaki stressing his opponents into making mistakes.

You could've been forgiven for forgetting Mahrez was on the pitch during the first half.

He still looks way too slow on the ball though, often needing a touch or three before laying it on or in the case where he was set up in a promising position at the edge of the area, he pondered too long and lost possession.

He's basically been a rich man's Dickov without the threat so far...

[shen]

You mean like Kingy used to do!

 I'd love to see stats for Okazaki and King put up including goals scored, pass completion, tackles won etc...and, no, I haven't seen them so I don't know how they compare.

The problem with King is that he doesn't make an art form of looking busy or spend lots of his time tacking on his backside or falling over claiming fouls.

I appreciate whats said about Okazaki's "closing down" but I'd doubt he's faster than King because neither are speed merchants. The difference is that King closes down while remaining upright.

He doesn't give unnecessary fouls away and would offer far more goal  threat if given the licence because he's one of the most natural goalscorers you'll see as a midfielder.

So many words about Okazaki but we were looking increasingly ragged and panicky until King came on and completely cooled the situation in the last 10 minutes...and not for the first time over the years.      

 

There could be a case here, but King does lack aggressiveness. I always feel King is positionally very good and usually times his interceptions well, but he does this in a deep position mainly, restricting spaces and angles before sticking his foot in.

Yes, he came on against Watford and tackled high up the pitch, but I feel uncomfortable with him up there leaving our defense exposed, because he hasn't got the pace to recover!

I think I would prefer Kanté there with King deep next to Drinkwater, because with Kanté you get pace, aggression AND direct and positive play.

[Gerard]

I think it's fair to say that in two posts ttfn has absolutely destroyed the increasingly desperate anti-Okazaki protesters. Close thread?

 

Destroyed? 

 

There is no hiding from the fact that from what we've seen so far Okazaki doesn't cause defences much trouble, at best he is a bit of a pest.

 

He doesn't score goals, doesn't make assists and I can hardly remember him having a shot or troubling a defence all season.

 

Apparently that's okay to the self proclaimed connoisseurs of the game on here because he chases defenders and he can't be judged with what he does with the ball. We have a striker who is better without the ball than with it. 

 

we've scored 25 goals in 12 games which is absolutely fantastic but I can't give Okazaki any credit for that. That's like putting Wes Morgan in the Jamaican 4*100m relay team and giving him credit if they won gold at the Commonwealth Games.

[ImBlue]

Vardy closes down more, wins more tackles, takes more shots, covers more ground, assists more, scores more goals, passes more, wins more aerial duels, does more take ons..

Yet Okazaki is supporting him? Nope, Vardy is carrying Okazaki.

[foxfanazer]

Would Okazaki be afforded the same defence from people if Vardy wasn't scoring?

[Countryfox]

Some amazing stats popping up here ....   SO is quite obviously a load of sh1te !  .....

 

Luckily, me and the little Italian bloke think he adds something to the team and, (for the time being), earns his place.

 

And for the record I like Leo as well, and there are times against some teams when his style may be useful, or as a sub used to replace, or be replaced by, SO. 

[psychonaut]

Some amazing stats popping up here ....   SO is quite obviously a load of sh1te !  .....

 

Luckily, me and the little Italian bloke think he adds something to the team and, (for the time being), earns his place.

 

And for the record I like Leo as well, and there are times against some teams when his style may be useful, or as a sub used to replace, or be replaced by, SO. 

 

Yeah but what about Kramaric?!

[foxfanazer]

Luckily, me and the little Italian bloke think he adds something to the team and, (for the time being), earns his place.

I'm not particularly on either side here but saying he adds something only adds fuel to the fire of the people that don't rate him. What exactly is he adding? So far I've only seen that he runs about and we play better as a team when he's on the pitch.

[Countryfox]

Yeah but what about Kramaric?!

 

Is he still here ??   

[Countryfox]

I'm not particularly on either side here but saying he adds something only adds fuel to the fire of the people that don't rate him. What exactly is he adding? So far I've only seen that he runs about and we play better as a team when he's on the pitch.

 

Spot on.  Thats what he adds.    If it ain't broke don't fix it.   I also keep saying that :  Leo is a good player;  We need a new striker, asap;  And we should have kept Nuge.

 

JV is the key to all this and if, (heaven forbid), something happens to him, we need a plan B. 

[MC Prussian]

 

You can argue it all you like, The fact you think Ulloa played more upfront than dropping deep makes these stats even worse for Okazaki.

 

 

Per 90 mins

 

Average forward passes 

Ulloa 12.22  (Passing forward to who if he was allegedly the main striker? Clearly he was deep if he was having to pass FORWARD 12 times a game)

Okazaki 6.17

 

Average backward passes

Ulloa 11.95

Okazaki 6

 

Total passes

Ulloa 24.30

Okazaki 12.25

 

Successful passes

Ulloa 17.68

Okazaki 9.75

 

Pass completion 

Ulloa 73%

Okazaki 80%

 

Key passes 

Ulloa 0.89

Okazaki 0.50

 

Chances created

Ulloa 0.97

Okazaki 0.50

 

Average Pass Length

Ulloa 13.70

Okazaki 10.36

 

Goal Ratio

Ulloa 1 in 3

Okazaki 1 in 12

 

Tackles won 

Ulloa 1.11

Okazaki 0.92

 

Tackles Lost

Ulloa 1.59

Okazaki 1.25

 

Take ons 

Ulloa 0.38

Okazaki 0.28

 

Arial Duels won

Ulloa 3.30

Okazaki 1.33

 

@@The Doctor

For a player that apparantely was the main striker and not a link up player, He scored 14 and done a better link up job. Happy now? Anything else?

 

Your comparisons are damned to be skewed from the start, because you compare players who are deployed in different roles at their respective clubs over a different period of time (varying amount of games), guided by two different managers with two different tactical approaches.

 

Basing an assessment on Ulloa with 37 games and an average pitch time of 65 minutes last season and Okazaki with 12 games for us this season (either being substituted out or in late in games) and an average pitch time of 52 minutes is simply not fair. It also doesn't reflect the tactics deployed at the time.

A lot of things can happen in the space of these extra 13 minutes!

 

Your theory can never hold up well if based on stats only.

If at all, you'd also have to take into consideration both Ulloa's and Okazaki's respective average heat maps on the pitch.

 

"Forward passes" can mean anything - from passes going straight forward up the field to sideways passes that are slightly going forward - which in turn, results in spreading the game or trying to find alternatives on the pitch in order to re-ignite an attack.

Let's not forget that Ulloa has oftentimes being used to assist us in defending from corners - no wonder you'll find him dishing out more forward passes!

It also results in more passes overall - or at least that's what it did last season, we've hardly seen him play in this campaign so far.

 

Backward passes also reflect(ed) Ulloa's average attacking position on the pitch - up front, in or near the opposing box (see my statement above).

[ImBlue]

Would Okazaki be afforded the same defence from people if Vardy wasn't scoring?

Simple answer is 'No'. Vardy is carrying the burden Okazaki should be sharing. This run won't last forever for Vardy, and Okazaki's running around won't be praised so highly when we aren't scoring. He will then be what we can see now, a headless chicken.

[ImBlue]

Your comparisons are damned to be skewed from the start, because you compare players who are deployed in different roles at their respective clubs over a different period of time (varying amount of games), guided by two different managers with two different tactical approaches.

Basing an assessment on Ulloa with 37 games and an average pitch time of 65 minutes last season and Okazaki with 12 games for us this season (either being substituted out or in late in games) and an average pitch time of 52 minutes is simply not fair. It also doesn't reflect the tactics deployed at the time.

A lot of things can happen in the space of these extra 13 minutes!

Your theory can never hold up well if based on stats only.

If at all, you'd also have to take into consideration both Ulloa's and Okazaki's respective average heat maps on the pitch.

"Forward passes" can mean anything - from passes going straight forward up the field to sideways passes that are slightly going forward - which in turn, results in spreading the game or trying to find alternatives on the pitch in order to re-ignite an attack.

Let's not forget that Ulloa has oftentimes being used to assist us in defending from corners - no wonder you'll find him dishing out more forward passes!

It also results in more passes overall - or at least that's what it did last season, we've hardly seen him play in this campaign so far.

Backward passes also reflect(ed) Ulloa's average attacking position on the pitch - up front, in or near the opposing box (see my statement above).

Thanks for reminding us another thing Ulloa brings that he doesn't. The defensive headers from corners.

[cityfanlee23]

I think it's fair to say that in two posts ttfn has absolutely destroyed the increasingly desperate anti-Okazaki protesters. Close thread?

 

Destroyed? Come on.... You're getting desperate now, you've been kissing Okazaki's arse for weeks now, You can keep defending him, that's fine, But in those 2 posts, TTFN posted some pretty bad stats himself like "Duels" which as others have pointed out is even more misleading than mine.

 

Okazaki came here as a goalscorer, consistently scoring double figures throughout his career bar 3 seasons at stuttgart where he was played out of position. 

Now he is not scoring and playing a deeper role, people excuse his average performances because he "runs around" and is a "pest" 

When the fact of the matter is, He does less with the ball than Ulloa.. So for a "Link up player" to do less than our "Main striker" from last season is pretty embarrassing for those defending him.

 

I'll say again as people like to forget on here, I HOPE HE PROVES ME WRONG.

 

Destroyed? 

 

There is no hiding from the fact that from what we've seen so far Okazaki doesn't cause defences much trouble, at best he is a bit of a pest.

 

He doesn't score goals, doesn't make assists and I can hardly remember him having a shot or troubling a defence all season.

 

Apparently that's okay to the self proclaimed connoisseurs of the game on here because he chases defenders and he can't be judged with what he does with the ball. We have a striker who is better without the ball than with it. 

 

we've scored 25 goals in 12 games which is absolutely fantastic but I can't give Okazaki any credit for that. That's like putting Wes Morgan in the Jamaican 4*100m relay team and giving him credit if they won gold at the Commonwealth Games.

 

 

Spot on.  Thats what he adds.    If it ain't broke don't fix it.   I also keep saying that :  Leo is a good player;  We need a new striker, asap;  And we should have kept Nuge.

 

JV is the key to all this and if, (heaven forbid), something happens to him, we need a plan B. 

 

We need it in january. This whole "If it aint broke don't fix it" argument is crap to be honest, Always improve, always progress. Our goal is to stay up, on that basis we don't need to sign anyone because we will achieve our goal without improving...

 

Your comparisons are damned to be skewed from the start, because you compare players who are deployed in different roles at their respective clubs over a different period of time (varying amount of games), guided by two different managers with two different tactical approaches.

 

Basing an assessment on Ulloa with 37 games and an average pitch time of 65 minutes last season and Okazaki with 12 games for us this season (either being substituted out or in late in games) and an average pitch time of 52 minutes is simply not fair. It also doesn't reflect the tactics deployed at the time.

A lot of things can happen in the space of these extra 13 minutes!

 

Your theory can never hold up well if based on stats only.

If at all, you'd also have to take into consideration both Ulloa's and Okazaki's respective average heat maps on the pitch.

 

"Forward passes" can mean anything - from passes going straight forward up the field to sideways passes that are slightly going forward - which in turn, results in spreading the game or trying to find alternatives on the pitch in order to re-ignite an attack.

Let's not forget that Ulloa has oftentimes being used to assist us in defending from corners - no wonder you'll find him dishing out more forward passes!

It also results in more passes overall - or at least that's what it did last season, we've hardly seen him play in this campaign so far.

 

Backward passes also reflect(ed) Ulloa's average attacking position on the pitch - up front, in or near the opposing box (see my statement above).

 

Comparisons are always difficult I understand that, but the point of the comparison, was that they are throwing okazaki a lifeline saying he's a "Link up player" 

Yet he does less linking up than our "Main striker" from last season. 

 

The comparison with regard to season was always going to be difficult to manage, 

 

Okazaki' Stats are from this season, 

Ulloa from last season, The fact is Ulloa has made 6 appearances and not even played 2 full games in that time, so that is completely not fair to compare as he's not even had a run this season, 

 

Comparing to last season is fairer as okazaki has played quite alot this season, To make it even fairer, I put the stats per match, However I should have put per 90 metrics to make it even fairer, Even with that, in most cases Ulloa is actually even further superior with regard to "Linking up play" 

So this argument that just because okazaki runs around more he adds more is pony, 

Even if you round Ulloa' stats down, and okazaki's up, he's still off the mark per 90 minutes played, and has to improve massively to contribute what Ulloa did last season.

 

Still lot's of time to go, and I never said that he was not going to be good enough, just that he's not at the moment.

All this bullshit being said that I "Don't understand his role" I do. I just agree with what seems to be a majority that he doesn't do his role well enough, and our fans are throwing him a lifeline because he's a good character..

[AKCJ]

The hatred of Okazaki really is odd.

 

He played very well on Saturday, people that can't see that are arguing for arguments sake.

 

He's not in this team to score goals. He links midfield and attack better than anyone else (even our lord and saviour Jesus Christ Riyad Mahrez).

 

 

It's like Nugent all over again. I get the impression that people think our strikers should ge getting a goal a game and, because Vardy is and everyone else isn't, they're underperforming.

 

 

 

Worth 8m? No, probably not. Going to score 15 goals this season? No, probably not. Going to be a valuable squad member? Absolutely.

[cityfanlee23]

The hatred of Okazaki really is odd.

 

He played very well on Saturday, people that can't see that are arguing for arguments sake.

 

He's not in this team to score goals. He links midfield and attack better than anyone else (even our lord and saviour Jesus Christ Riyad Mahrez).

 

 

It's like Nugent all over again. I get the impression that people think our strikers should ge getting a goal a game and, because Vardy is and everyone else isn't, they're underperforming.

 

 

 

Worth 8m? No, probably not. Going to score 15 goals this season? No, probably not. Going to be a valuable squad member? Absolutely.

 

"Hatred"? certainly not "Hatred"

 

Criticism, yes, deservedly so? Debatable.

He made an impact saturday yes, But people are now trying to convince themselves he was the only reason for that which is rubbish, We improved in the second half for the vast majority of games this season, Even the commentators said the second half would be electric, just because Okazaki came on does not mean it was him that orchestrated it, He done his part, and was better than mahrez was in that position first half, Nobody is denying that. 

 

 

 

Also just to add, for those arguing that Ulloa did not play a "link up role" last season, Go to the "Sportsmail" website, and find all games from last season, there is a "Heat map" for every player, in every game.

 

ULLOA, spent a huge amount of time last season consistently dropping deep and getting possession in MIDFIELD, so this argument that he was always our most forward striker is rubbish, He was always dropping deep.

[Fox92]

Simple answer is 'No'. Vardy is carrying the burden Okazaki should be sharing. This run won't last forever for Vardy, and Okazaki's running around won't be praised so highly when we aren't scoring. He will then be what we can see now, a headless chicken.

 

If Vardy stops scoring we won't have goalscoring threat, simple as that. Not just Okazaki but all the players. I can't see where goals are coming from should Vardy get injured or dry up.

[kingfox]

Why is Okazaki getting treated like he is the next DJ Campbell or Jermaine Beckford?

[Guest ttfn]

How is "duels" (a very, very minor part of my post) even remotely as misleading as you claiming that because Ulloa made forward passes last season he must have been playing off the front for most of last season (and as such was directly comparable to Okazaki) when anybody with a cursory knowledge of our side last season could tell you that was rubbish?

What it shows is that Okazaki is much more combative than Ulloa and more effective in winning the ball back from the opposition, sitting nicely alongside the interceptions, tackles and fouls suffered stats.

You may not like it but that is the primary function of the second striker in this team, turning the ball over. Vardy's run of form is absolutely testament to the remarkable strides he's made but it's also in large part due to the fact that the team is now set up to service him.

The team looks a million times more balanced with him in it. That's not to excuse some bad games - he wasn't good against Spurs and Southampton at all, but the fundamental principle that strikers must be scoring goals to justify their place in the team is medieval thinking.

[Gerard]

The hatred of Okazaki really is odd.

 

He played very well on Saturday, people that can't see that are arguing for arguments sake.

 

He's not in this team to score goals. He links midfield and attack better than anyone else (even our lord and saviour Jesus Christ Riyad Mahrez).

 

 

It's like Nugent all over again. I get the impression that people think our strikers should ge getting a goal a game and, because Vardy is and everyone else isn't, they're underperforming.

 

 

 

Worth 8m? No, probably not. Going to score 15 goals this season? No, probably not. Going to be a valuable squad member? Absolutely.

 

What about assists?

 

He averaged 0.1 assists per 90 mins last season for Mainz.

 

So if he's not going to get goals or assists.

 

He doesn't particularly link MF to attack, he just there chasing the ball about, how often does he give a pass that creates a chance? People are talking about him like he's Emile Heskey and such a players offers so much more than goals, Okazaki is light years behind big Emile.

 

I really despair at the posters who think Okazaki is doing enough to get into this team, in January a partner for Vardy should be our No 1 priority.

[Guest ttfn]

If Vardy stops scoring we won't have goalscoring threat, simple as that. Not just Okazaki but all the players. I can't see where goals are coming from should Vardy get injured or dry up.

Mahrez is the second top scorer in the league ffs.

Ulloa and Okazaki are both proven goal scorers in top European leagues