Izzy Posted 22 June 2016 Share Posted 22 June 2016 I had a Google hangout coaching session today with a group of Google Managers based in Sao Paulo. At the end of the session and knowing I was English, they asked me how I'd be voting tomorrow. It caught me on the hop a bit and I didn't realise this referendum was even news in South America. Maybe this is a bigger deal than I first imagined.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 22 June 2016 Share Posted 22 June 2016 Being an electrician I can only speak from experience and knowing that we are still being paid the same as we were in 2007 and seeing plenty more collegues from Europe. Sure it's reading between the lines but when one colleague leaves, it's a fact to say they are replaced by and large by someone from Eastern Europe. Now I'm not degrading these people, some are reasonably close friends but they aren't helping our wage rise, they are keeping it down. Question - are your rates still the same as 2007? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxxed Posted 22 June 2016 Share Posted 22 June 2016 Being an electrician I can only speak from experience and knowing that we are still being paid the same as we were in 2007 and seeing plenty more collegues from Europe. Sure it's reading between the lines but when one colleague leaves, it's a fact to say they are replaced by and large by someone from Eastern Europe. Now I'm not degrading these people, some are reasonably close friends but they aren't helping our wage rise, they are keeping it down. To be fair to Brexit, I suspect my profession, which has a large supply for foreign workers, is different from yours. Most of my co-workers from Eastern Europe are trying to charge employers more than what I charge, not less. And living in the UK, they still want the same standard of living, and therefore the same money to buy that. But I suspect your profession is a lot more based on standardised pieces of work. I have no idea about your profession really though, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 22 June 2016 Share Posted 22 June 2016 Well again, a company is only going to go and actively look for employment abroad if it has many vacancies to fill - you're not going to invest money to go out to somewhere like Poland to advertise 5 low skilled vacancies - that makes no sense does it? Advertising abroad would only happen if you had multiple vacancies you needed to fill and you've struggled locally for a period of 3/6 months. I know that locally (in Bristol) First Bus had huge problems in getting bus drivers so that's when they went to Poland - and these were above minimum wage jobs too. So i imagine a lot of the employment from Europe (at least initially) will be from people coming over here and taking a chance on getting a job - now if they manage to do that, in some respects fair play to them. They're making things happen for themselves and their families. That is a spirit this country used to have in spades but has disappeared into a culture of people expecting something to be provided for them. Now there may be a more recent problem with agencies going abroad and getting a load of immigrants on their books to fill positions and with over occupancy in some rental accommodation - but this is something that could and should be tackled at our own government level already. How many of these bus drivers were they willing to put through the relevant training? If I was pushing pallets around for a living at £7.50 per hour and a job for a bus driver came up, i would jump at the chance but I would need a licence and probably experience. Unless they offer to put you through your licence. Which they have clearly have decided to go to Poland first. Which is kind of my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny the fox Posted 22 June 2016 Share Posted 22 June 2016 Hope all the old people don't vote for us to leave tomorrow Iv'e deliberately voted out to **** up your'e future.. suck it up... i'm off to soak my piles now with a satisfying smile on my toothless gnarled boat race.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 22 June 2016 Share Posted 22 June 2016 Question - are your rates still the same as 2007? Mine aren't, I was self employed in 2007 and far better off. I joined two years ago but I'm told £14 per hour has been the same since 2007, by the only two employees left from that era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgy Bob Posted 22 June 2016 Share Posted 22 June 2016 There's just been an advert for apprenticeships at half time during the football. Seems like a good amount of effort is being put into promoting them even now while we're in the UK. But do we want them? More apprentices will mean lower wages won't it? What do we want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny the fox Posted 22 June 2016 Share Posted 22 June 2016 Leave currently ahead on lily allens poll 22,000 votes Another great political mind... we are so blessed in this country.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 22 June 2016 Share Posted 22 June 2016 There's just been an advert for apprenticeships at half time during the football. Seems like a good amount of effort is being put into promoting them even now while we're in the UK. But do we want them? More apprentices will mean lower wages won't it? What do we want? We want apprentices obviously and jobs for them at the end of it. Not you must have two years experience or any of the other crap that wouldn't be necessary if we didn't have an endless pool of competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 22 June 2016 Share Posted 22 June 2016 Another great political mind... we are so blessed in this country.. Oh the irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apple987 Posted 22 June 2016 Share Posted 22 June 2016 All this talk of jobs and wages is just nonsense in my opinion. Yes for a few years it might mean people being worse off, but this referendum is for the next 100 years. Everyone who talks of debt/jobs/money is thinking short term. This is long term Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Guvnor Posted 22 June 2016 Share Posted 22 June 2016 Those banging on about British pride being the reason why they're voting leave need to realise that a leave win could break up Britain as we know it. I think it's been fairly well reported that a Scottish independence vote will take place and of course, those that voted to stay last time may change their mind as they would rather be in the EU than the UK. Those on the side of leave don't have ownership of national pride. Those that will be voting remain are still patriotic, they're just voting on what they think is better for this country. I'm also amazed that there are leave supporters that are adamant that everything Boris etc has told them about what the UK will become is gospel, yet of a remain campaigner mentions that this referendum, particularly if it's close, will make the EU sit up resulting in changes to policy as absolute bullshit. The same goes for experts. Those on the leave side are telling the truth but those on remain are not, you either value an expert's opinion or you don't. Dismissing someone's view because they don't agree with your own is unbelievable. As I said before, if you're truly undecided and are feeling the pressure, you should vote remain as you know what you're getting already. Everyone keeps saying 'it doesn't matter which side you pick, just remember to vote' is nonsense and you should abstain rather than making an ill-informed decision. So vote remain because you have had a kick in the balls from the EU but convinced leaving would result in full removal of your tackle, maybe leaving would result in an ice pack and some soothing medicine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxxed Posted 22 June 2016 Share Posted 22 June 2016 Another great political mind... we are so blessed in this country.. I was going to mock this too. But then I thought the lilly allen listening demographic are probably like a million times more important politically than my own demographic (which incidentally is neo-jazz-folk-heavy-minimalistic-gregorian-chant). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny the fox Posted 22 June 2016 Share Posted 22 June 2016 Oh the irony. oooh..get you.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny the fox Posted 22 June 2016 Share Posted 22 June 2016 I was going to mock this too. But then I thought the lilly allen listening demographic are probably like a million times more important politically than my own demographic (which incidentally is neo-jazz-folk-heavy-minimalistic-gregorian-chant). I still haven't seen jimmy crickets twitter referendum poll result .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxxed Posted 22 June 2016 Share Posted 22 June 2016 So vote remain because you have had a kick in the balls from the EU but convinced leaving would result in full removal of your tackle, maybe leaving would result in an ice pack and some soothing medicine. A minor point, "but a kick in the balls" is pretty much having a smaller economic market with which to bargin--"do this and then 60 mn people won't buy your products" compared to "we have 450 mn people who may not buy your products"--rather than a direct kick into the testicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 22 June 2016 Share Posted 22 June 2016 Mine aren't, I was self employed in 2007 and far better off. I joined two years ago but I'm told £14 per hour has been the same since 2007, by the only two employees left from that era. Well let's face it - they've cheated themselves, with 7 years experience their value should be a lot higher and they could have done what you had done and gone out on their own. I've played in enough football teams to know a lot of people that have started out employed and then got to a stage where they've ventured out by themselves or do a bit of both. Would you expect to get someone in with that level of experience on £14 an hour if you needed it? It's closer to £20/£25 these days isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Guvnor Posted 22 June 2016 Share Posted 22 June 2016 A minor point, "but a kick in the balls" is pretty much having a smaller economic market with which to bargin--"do this and then 60 mn people won't buy your products" compared to "we have 450 mn people who may not buy your products"--rather than a direct kick into the testicles. Or stick with an over bureaucratic withered arm and get a new longer one which can reach around and embrace the rest of the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oohaahmustafa Posted 22 June 2016 Share Posted 22 June 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 22 June 2016 Share Posted 22 June 2016 Well let's face it - they've cheated themselves, with 7 years experience their value should be a lot higher and they could have done what you had done and gone out on their own. I've played in enough football teams to know a lot of people that have started out employed and then got to a stage where they've ventured out by themselves or do a bit of both. Would you expect to get someone in with that level of experience on £14 an hour if you needed it? It's closer to £20/£25 these days isn't it? I'm not sure what it is these days but it's not without risk when you have families to support, you can easily lose everything like I did. I did however get a call to go subbing the other day and he offered me £150 a day. 3 month contract but by the time you add the cost of a van, running it, no holiday pay, no pension, could get chopped any minute or bumped like I did. Its not the safe option. So right now, I just work overtime @ 1.5 or 2.0 and pick a few private jobs here and there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxxed Posted 22 June 2016 Share Posted 22 June 2016 Or stick with an over bureaucratic withered arm and get a new longer one which can reach around and embrace the rest of the world Am I feeling up Portugal in this scenario? Or is Portgual feeling me up? And do I get to choose the Portuguese person who feels me up? Or does my head of state choose the aforementioned groper himself? And Portugal's always been pretty close to Spain. I'm not sure I'm sexually liberated enough for a threesome. Please respond before the voting deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 22 June 2016 Share Posted 22 June 2016 Am I feeling up Portugal in this scenario? Or is Portgual feeling me up? And do I get to choose the Portuguese person who feels me up? Or does my head of state choose the aforementioned groper himself? And Portugal's always been pretty close to Spain. I'm not sure I'm sexually liberated enough for a threesome. Please respond before the voting deadline. This has properly creeped me out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 22 June 2016 Share Posted 22 June 2016 How many of these bus drivers were they willing to put through the relevant training? If I was pushing pallets around for a living at £7.50 per hour and a job for a bus driver came up, i would jump at the chance but I would need a licence and probably experience. Unless they offer to put you through your licence. Which they have clearly have decided to go to Poland first. Which is kind of my point. Can only speak from experience, but I work for a bus company and we're desperate for drivers, and we've never looked to Europe. We've got 80 odd drivers and three are from the EU. In fact the largest number of non British drivers are from India and Pakistan. In all the 4 years I've worked there non of the EU staff, the three we have now and three or four we've employed in that time that have since left, have been sourced, they've all just applied like anyone else would, and you'll only get an interview if you have the correct licence. Putting people through their licence isn't the done thing in the industry, it's expensive and workers move around a lot. We'll pay the £50 per course to do the CPC courses but that's about it, and we'll have it back when they leave if it's less than a year old. So basically we're employing anyone able to do the job, British or not. If there's no British people wanting to be bus drivers, then we have to employ someone who does. Once they're in the job, we have to pay competitive prices to keep them, or they piss off to arriva, so there's no immigration pushing wages down. If your wages have stagnated to need to start looking around, not blaming your polish workmate for keeping it that way. If you're good at your job you'll force an employers hand, if they're not bothered you'll get better pay elsewhere. Oh and my wages haven't moved for a couple of years and there's no eu immigrants in the offices at work, so stagnant wages aren't all down to immigration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxxed Posted 22 June 2016 Share Posted 22 June 2016 This has properly creeped me out I try. I try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxxed Posted 22 June 2016 Share Posted 22 June 2016 All this damn bureaucracy. If only we could cut through it all, and with a much smaller economic market, DO SOMETHING. ANYTHING. Srsly though. Are there loads of economic deals we're itching to do, that will pull in loads cash, but some soft-skinned bureaucrat in Brussels is typing slowly into this 1980s computer, looking at us, and with dead-eyes shaking his head? It's not one of those deals Mark Thatcher wanted is it? Risky, risky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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