The EU referendum - IN / OUT or Shake it all about.

[Strokes]

Yeah--as I mentioned--striking a deal with China when we are OUTSIDE a market that wields power over them would not lead to a more favorable deal to us.

If we can get goods cheaper from China, why do we need Europe? Admittedly I misread your post earlier.

[Strokes]

So the argument is as follows foxxed..........we can't leave EU because thing will cost us more - me, if they are too expensive maybe we can make them ourselves (job creation, national wealth etc) - you, we can't make them cheaper China will under cut us.

Great so things won't cost much more then

[Foxxed]

So the argument is as follows foxxed..........we can't leave EU because thing will cost us more - me, if they are too expensive maybe we can make them ourselves (job creation, national wealth etc) - you, we can't make them cheaper China will under cut us.

Great so things won't cost much more then

 

Wait, I'm not saying things will cost more. Where did I say that? I apologise if that came across.

 

I'm talking about economic leverage in trade deals with China.

 

And leaving the EU will leave us at an disadvantage. Because trade deals favour the one with the greatest economic leverage, and the European Common Market is a huge, huge piece of economic leverage.

[Foxxed]

Also, in party neutral mode, were the bookies right in the last election? Some casual Googling suggests they were.

 

The bookies are saying we'll remain at the moment. But only just. And it may all change.

 

If the thug who killed Jo Cox was affiliated to Britain First, or alternatively someone non-British, I fear that may affect things.

 

I could see it going either way. Foreign billionaire Murdoc and co have stirred up enough worries and fear and we have always been a little reluctant to work with our neighbours in a cooperative way, I've always found.

 

I doubt the really politically active people--or people posting on internet forums perhaps--will decide it. I read one theory that said women, quietly making decisions about the economic outcome of the next election etc, tend to sway the vote.

 

ALL HAIL KING FUNNY HAIR, regardless of the result.

[Trav Le Bleu]

 

ALL HAIL KING FUNNY HAIR, regardless of the result.

BoJo or Trump?

[fuchsntf]

Before I retired I was involved in the recruitment and training of engineering apprentices amongst other things and it was really hard work getting companies involved, the biggest excuse was they could leave when the training  was complete  and yet they were quite happy to recruit skilled people trained by other companies.

 

There's  really no excuse for them not especially large organisations. I can understand I man bands not  getting involved as it's  much harder for them to provide the on the job part.

 

It's  pretty much universal in hard times that the first budget to be cut is the training budget which inevitably means they are ill prepared to act quickly when things improve particularly in longer term training roles.

 

Governments should provide much greater financial incentives for the training in vital industries everything is so short term.

 

So often funding from government is just for a few years and is generally a complete waste but then in most cases it's a 'political' bribe.

 

Sorry about the diversion but it's  a pet hate of mine.

One reason I never returned..Since they dropped apprenticeships, and shat on the various skilled

Technicians of the UK.

Started in the Thatcher years, but worse stabbed in the back from the socialist parties.

Now politicians talk about apprenticeships, like they have reinvented the wheel..

Since the late 70s Britain were short of Bus drivers and Landlords,

so they forced engineers onto redundancy.(sarcasism).

Britain is a country which prefers and honour Estate-agents, to any of their skilled peoples.

I learnt/studied toolmaker/mc-builder, then went into IT networks, only ever felt respected

and appreciated overseas, never in my country of Birth....

[Foxxed]

BoJo or Trump?

 

I'm imagining a morph of them both.

[sphericalfox]

So the argument is as follows foxxed..........we can't leave EU because thing will cost us more - me, if they are too expensive maybe we can make them ourselves (job creation, national wealth etc) - you, we can't make them cheaper China will under cut us.

Great so things won't cost much more then

 

 

I love how you think we had the raw materials to just manufacture what ever we want and use in the UK and then sell it to ourselves.   Magic.

[Guest MattP]

Slightly off topic but Tooting by election tonight.

For the first time I hope Labour hold (very likely anyway) - it really wouldn't feel right them losing a seat tonight.

[BoyJones]

Wait, I'm not saying things will cost more. Where did I say that? I apologise if that came across.

 

I'm talking about economic leverage in trade deals with China.

 

And leaving the EU will leave us at an disadvantage. Because trade deals favour the one with the greatest economic leverage, and the European Common Market is a huge, huge piece of economic leverage.

Most European countries fight against each other for far eastern contracts and for that matter any business anywhere in the world. There is nocommon approach because all countries only look after their own interests. France and Gemany proably yhe biggest culprits. Also Iceland, Switzerland, Russia seem to be coping well outside the tentacles of Brussels / Berlin.

I am not particularly interested in the debate, because each side just spouts all encompassing comments with no factual basis or proof.

[Foxxed]

Most European countries fight against each other for far eastern contracts and for that matter any business anywhere in the world. There is nocommon approach because all countries only look after their own interests. France and Gemany proably yhe biggest culprits. Also Iceland, Switzerland, Russia seem to be coping well outside the tentacles of Brussels / Berlin.

I am not particularly interested in the debate, because each side just spouts all encompassing comments with no factual basis or proof.

 

My worry is not who's fighting for contracts, as much as our leverage.

 

Take this story for example: Peter Mandelson recommends anti-dumping measures against China.

 

The reason this has any weight is because the EU's economy is massive and the main buyer of Chinese goods.

 

If this story were about the UK-alone doing it would be less economically powerful. The UK's population is tiny compared to the EU's combined. And therefore less of a threat to China.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Slightly off topic but Tooting by election tonight.

For the first time I hope Labour hold (very likely anyway) - it really wouldn't feel right them losing a seat tonight.

Has there ever been an uncontested by-election do you know? Maybe looking too far ahead, but could be a fitting stance for all parties to take?

[Strokes]

Wait, I'm not saying things will cost more. Where did I say that? I apologise if that came across.

 

I'm talking about economic leverage in trade deals with China.

 

And leaving the EU will leave us at an disadvantage. Because trade deals favour the one with the greatest economic leverage, and the European Common Market is a huge, huge piece of economic leverage.

You quoted my post that was in response to that from someone else.

I love how you think we had the raw materials to just manufacture what ever we want and use in the UK and then sell it to ourselves.   Magic.

show me where I said that?

You think we can't get a more favourable deal with the Chinese outside the EU?

[Guest MattP]

I think an uncontested by election would be a nice tribute.

I don't know if it's happened before, did they do that when the MP'S were killed by the IRA?

[Strokes]

My worry is not who's fighting for contracts, as much as our leverage.

 

Take this story for example: Peter Mandelson recommends anti-dumping measures against China.

 

The reason this has any weight is because the EU's economy is massive and the main buyer of Chinese goods.

 

If this story were about the UK-alone doing it would be less economically powerful. The UK's population is tiny compared to the EU's combined. And therefore less of a threat to China.

I don't know how you sleep at night if this worries you.

[Guest MattP]

The Daily Star headline is something along the lines of "Brexit nutter kills MP".

I don't know what to say about that.

[Jimothy]

The Daily Star headline is something along the lines of "Brexit nutter kills MP".

I don't know what to say about that.

Does anyone actually take the Star seriously? I've read more factual articles in Viz.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

I think an uncontested by election would be a nice tribute.

I don't know if it's happened before, did they do that when the MP'S were killed by the IRA?

Haven't found anything on the net - except for Chinese / Hong Kong ones!

I'd be surprised if it wasn't at least thought of... Can't imagine anyone wishing to stand against in these circumstances, let alone trying to win.

[Strokes]

I think an uncontested by election would be a nice tribute.

I don't know if it's happened before, did they do that when the MP'S were killed by the IRA?

Im not sure it's entirely fair on the voters Matt. I guess as its a comfortable holding seat it shouldn't matter but still a little over the top?

I remember when that police officer got grenaded in Manchester, people were complaining because the final episode of a TVs programme got put back.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Oh - and stop talking about trade deals with China. If there's one nation you wouldn't want to discuss trade with as a 'newly liberated country' working for the common man it would be China - they'd shaft us!

[Harry - LCFC]

I'm not entirely comfortable with the decision to suspend campaigning for the day. I don't want to underplay the importance of this tragedy but the referendum is more important than one life. I personally wouldn't find it disrespectful for people to continue to make their case, especially since we're so close now.

 

I sincerely hope the suspension is lifted tomorrow and we don't see people trying to shame others who choose to voice their opinions.

 

 

Has there ever been an uncontested by-election do you know? Maybe looking too far ahead, but could be a fitting stance for all parties to take?

 

Absolutely not in my opinion. By doing that you would effectively be telling the constituents that they had to take whoever the Labour Party selected as their new MP.

 

I know it's only a by-election and the Labour candidate will likely win anyway but deliberately holding an uncontested election, even if it is for sentimental reasons, runs counter to the spirit of democracy.

[Guest MattP]

Spot on actually Strokes, it would be an affront to democracy to have just one name on ballot paper.

Bad idea, it should be fought as any election should.

[Webbo]

I'm pretty sure that when a Tory was killed by the ira there was a contested by election and iirc the liberals won.

[Harry - LCFC]

I'm pretty sure that when a Tory was killed by the ira there was a contested by election and iirc the liberals won.

 

It wasn't uncontested

 

Here's the Wikipedia page for the by-election you're referring: to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastbourne_by-election,_1990

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Suspending campaigning was sensible, no-one would have gained much by carrying on anyway.

There's talk of recalling Parliament I understand - tomorrow might be a bit soon though.

I expect maybe a low key campaigning day tomorrow and maybe Saturday, Sunday back to normalish, Monday in Parliament for the day, Tuesday back to full speed.