thybluefox Posted 15 June 2015 Share Posted 15 June 2015 Not if someone like the 'offside' group that opposed the Bede Island development get involved. i'm sure even if the council is in favour they'll be a number of caveats such as park and ride which we still haven't implemented as part of the original stadium build, maybe they wont be so believing this time in any promises made. Any expansion is bound to include the holding of bigger and more concerts than the current 6 a year which maybe essential in justifying the cost and there were a fair few objections to just having 6. Bottom line there's plenty of potential non-football problems associated with any expansion that could hold it up for a long while. Plus objections from residents who say that the current situation of traffic and parking is already untenable. Tell them there could be another 10,000 people going down every other week and they'll have kittens. There's probably hundreds of considerations, even down to impact on power, water and sewage supplies, catering for short-term impact of construction traffic, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xen Posted 15 June 2015 Share Posted 15 June 2015 This. The likes of Stoke and Swansea have never expanded after promotion because after an initial surge in ticket demands, it tailed off and it's not been required. I'd honestly love to see the capacity expand and have tickets for all that wanted them but the worst thing we could do would be expand and then struggle fill it. Worse, be relegated and have 23-26000 crowds in a 42000 stadium. 16000 empty seats would be a horrible sight, Coventry-style. As I said in an earlier reply. Give it another season and then add piece by piece. East stand, then North stand and so on. One of the reasons why demand tails off is because of the lack of supply. If you were a new(ish)/casual fan and struggled to get tickets at all for a couple of years, you'd lose interest. If we strike while the irons hot then we won't lose that potential support and the expansion will be more worthwhile. The longer we wait, the more we (the club and the fans) miss out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Ulike Posted 15 June 2015 Share Posted 15 June 2015 This. The likes of Stoke and Swansea have never expanded after promotion because after an initial surge in ticket demands, it tailed off and it's not been required. I'd honestly love to see the capacity expand and have tickets for all that wanted them but the worst thing we could do would be expand and then struggle fill it. Worse, be relegated and have 23-26000 crowds in a 42000 stadium. 16000 empty seats would be a horrible sight, Coventry-style. As I said in an earlier reply. Give it another season and then add piece by piece. East stand, then North stand and so on. I don't think this would be a terrible thing... I think it's only in England where this mentality exists. If you look at a lot of the big teams in Italy, France, Spain, they have huge stadiums which far out-strip their average attendances. Napoli for example have a 60,000 stadium but they only average 32,000. Sporting Lisbon have 50,000 capacity and average 35,000 Seville have a 45,000 stadium but an average attendance last season which was less than ours. I think Leicester is unique in that it's the only club within a 100 miles (give or take) of the big north-west clubs and the big London clubs. I can see us topping 40,000 for home games against Liverpool, Man U, Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs. Those clubs could probably bring 10,000 away fans for each game. That would be brilliant for atmosphere! That's 33% of home games with a full stadium already. Villa, Everton, Newcastle are also big attractions which could hit 35,000 without too much trouble. So I don't see the fact that the stadium will have empty seats for the smaller teams as much of a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 15 June 2015 Share Posted 15 June 2015 Plus objections from residents who say that the current situation of traffic and parking is already untenable. Tell them there could be another 10,000 people going down every other week and they'll have kittens. There's probably hundreds of considerations, even down to impact on power, water and sewage supplies, catering for short-term impact of construction traffic, etc. Yeh that's why I said the offside mob who were local residents opposed to the redevelopment of Filbert St and Bede Island. They of course won both arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard Posted 15 June 2015 Share Posted 15 June 2015 We're locking people out NOW. All this uber safe talk of relegation, losing public demand, etc. In my life time the club has never been as well geared up as it is now to move up to the next tier of clubs. I'm talking the Everton, Newcastle, Spurs, Aston Villa and West Ham level. We can leave behind the Stoke, West Brom, Sunderland, Forest, Derby and Wolves tier type clubs. I believe we will average 40,000+ in a 42,000 stadium and in five years will be looking to build a new stadium that holds nearer 60,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie93 Posted 15 June 2015 Share Posted 15 June 2015 We're locking people out NOW. All this uber safe talk of relegation, losing public demand, etc. In my life time the club has never been as well geared up as it is now to move up to the next tier of clubs. I'm talking the Everton, Newcastle, Spurs, Aston Villa and West Ham level. We can leave behind the Stoke, West Brom, Sunderland, Forest, Derby and Wolves tier type clubs. I believe we will average 40,000+ in a 42,000 stadium and in five years will be looking to build a new stadium that holds nearer 60,000. I'd say Stoke are a tier above Villa & Newcastle tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard Posted 15 June 2015 Share Posted 15 June 2015 I'd say Stoke are a tier above Villa & Newcastle tbh. I'm on about the size of the club not the performance on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie93 Posted 15 June 2015 Share Posted 15 June 2015 I'm on about the size of the club not the performance on the pitch. What matters more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard Posted 15 June 2015 Share Posted 15 June 2015 What matters more? Short term, performance on the pitch. Long term, size of the club. Everything reverts to the mean eventually. Just look at where Wigan and Blackpool are now, small clubs who had their moment in the sun but no more likely to be back any time soon than what Swindon are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie93 Posted 15 June 2015 Share Posted 15 June 2015 Short term, performance on the pitch. Long term, size of the club. Everything reverts to the mean eventually. Just look at where Wigan and Blackpool are now, small clubs who had their moment in the sun but no more likely to be back any time soon than what Swindon are. So right now you'd rather be Villa than Stoke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 15 June 2015 Share Posted 15 June 2015 Imo you don't expand based on a peak of support, if demand is still high after 3 years in the Prem or a year in the Championship then yeah an expansion is needed, but the first season back in the top flight isn't a good indicator as to whether it will be a sustainable investment long-term. But we aren't expanding this year, so at a minimum the expansion will be happening after two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard Posted 15 June 2015 Share Posted 15 June 2015 So right now you'd rather be Villa than Stoke? Yes, My estimate is that Aston Villa will be more successful than Stoke from this point onwards until the end of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 15 June 2015 Share Posted 15 June 2015 This. The likes of Stoke and Swansea have never expanded after promotion because after an initial surge in ticket demands, it tailed off and it's not been required. I'd honestly love to see the capacity expand and have tickets for all that wanted them but the worst thing we could do would be expand and then struggle fill it. Worse, be relegated and have 23-26000 crowds in a 42000 stadium. 16000 empty seats would be a horrible sight, Coventry-style. As I said in an earlier reply. Give it another season and then add piece by piece. East stand, then North stand and so on. Swansea are expanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie93 Posted 15 June 2015 Share Posted 15 June 2015 Yes, My estimate is that Aston Villa will be more successful than Stoke from this point onwards until the end of time. From this point onwards, I can't see them finishing higher than Stoke..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard Posted 15 June 2015 Share Posted 15 June 2015 From this point onwards, I can't see them finishing higher than Stoke..? You're talking about the immediate future. What about in 5, 10, 20 years time? As I said before everything reverts to the mean. I would expect Stoke and Swansea to be relegated at some point in the next ten years. Just like I would have said about Wigan and Blackpool when they were at their highest ebb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voll Blau Posted 15 June 2015 Share Posted 15 June 2015 So right now you'd rather be Villa than Stoke? I'd love to have a European Cup win on our honours board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosbehFox Posted 15 June 2015 Share Posted 15 June 2015 Planning won't take 12-18 months. Its usually a 12 week turnaround once it goes in, the drawings will be getting made up now with comments being made. They will get it pushed through quickly because it benefits the council. Not for a development of this size. Transport planning etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie93 Posted 15 June 2015 Share Posted 15 June 2015 I'd love to have a European Cup win on our honours board. Doesn't mean anything now though does it? Players don't get attracted to Villa because they won a European cup in 1982 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagworthblue Posted 15 June 2015 Share Posted 15 June 2015 Doesn't mean anything now though does it? Players don't get attracted to Villa because they won a European cup in 1982 Hmm these days it means err ££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££s and more!! and it means you are in the euro next season! £s + Euros = best players interested and affordable! The brand exposure is massive. Think of the global shirt sales for one! 1982 = football - small business muddy pitches, match of the day and some international exposure (and 33 years ago) 2015 = sky TV, global brand exposure, huge enterprise oh and a bit of football too! (and right now!) forget all of that - it means we can boast about it having just happened unlike our neighbours who boast about it when most of them weren't even born at the time!! Surely, a football team's aim is to win the biggest competition available to it and whether you are Manchester United, or Oxford united, have a reasonable chance of winning it or just the slightest long term glimmer of hope...... - that's the dream! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie93 Posted 15 June 2015 Share Posted 15 June 2015 Hmm these days it means err ££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££s and more!! and it means you are in the euro next season! £s + Euros = best players interested and affordable! The brand exposure is massive. Think of the global shirt sales for one! 1982 = football - small business muddy pitches, match of the day and some international exposure (and 33 years ago) 2015 = sky TV, global brand exposure, huge enterprise oh and a bit of football too! (and right now!) forget all of that - it means we can boast about it having just happened unlike our neighbours who boast about it when most of them weren't even born at the time!! Surely, a football team's aim is to win the biggest competition available to it and whether you are Manchester United, or Oxford united, have a reasonable chance of winning it or just the slightest long term glimmer of hope...... - that's the dream! I think you read my post wrong, I meant Villa winning a European cup in 1982 means nothing on how successful they will be now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voll Blau Posted 15 June 2015 Share Posted 15 June 2015 Doesn't mean anything now though does it? Players don't get attracted to Villa because they won a European cup in 1982 Who knows? It possibly does. History and heritage is very attractive to some players. In any case Villa certainly have more potential than Stoke in the long run. Bigger city, bigger fanbase, bigger ground. Any club of their size managed properly (i.e. not them or Newcastle in recent years) has the potential to challenge for trophies year after year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 15 June 2015 Share Posted 15 June 2015 From this point onwards, I can't see them finishing higher than Stoke..? What... ever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woof Posted 15 June 2015 Share Posted 15 June 2015 I don't see the argument that even if we stay in the PL for years, attendances will drop as "the novelty will wear off". This suggests that people will get bored watching their team playing the best teams in the country every week ? Attendances drop off when you put Peter Taylor in charge and get massacred by a newly promoted team in the first game of the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank to be Posted 15 June 2015 Share Posted 15 June 2015 Not for a development of this size. Transport planning etc. Cardiff's extension application took little more than two months for very similar work. There's is costing about £12m for 8k seats so would expect the same kind of price. Surprised you didn't know this, given your name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Ulike Posted 15 June 2015 Share Posted 15 June 2015 Doesn't mean anything now though does it? Players don't get attracted to Villa because they won a European cup in 1982 Whereas, we never stop hearing players going on about how it's their live-long dream to play for Stoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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