Expand the stadium? The poll

[Strokes]

The reporting on Southampton idicates that the going rate is now £3500 per seat when expanding, so 10,000 seats is £35,000,000.

 

Not including interest on any loans, ground maintainance, staffing costs, reduced capacity during renovation and policing that'll take about a decade of ST sell outs to pay off.

Does that include conference rooms, marketing suites etc

[theessexfox]

If we go down, we won't fill it. If we stay up and become an established middle table team, unfortunately the excitement and passion surrounding the club at the moment will somewhat fade, and we won't fill it. That's how I see it. 

[Bob Weasel Fox]

If we go down, we won't fill it. If we stay up and become an established middle table team, unfortunately the excitement and passion surrounding the club at the moment will somewhat fade, and we won't fill it. That's how I see it.

Is that any reason not to build on though? Really?

[Xen]

The stadium cost £37m to build, and was built with expansion in mind so any further build wouldn't be as difficult/costly.

 

There is absolutely no way an extra 10k seats will cost us £35m. Not a chance.

 

 

And even if it did, so what? Our owners are loaded, our club is debt-free. TV money is immense, so our owners wouldn't even have to inject any capital for it, and if they did it'd be pocket money to them. The club could easily be self-sufficient on the new TV deal, so we wouldn't even notice the missing £x million that goes towards the expansion. And in fact, in future years it'll benefit us massively as we'll be able to generate more revenue and as such be able to spend more with regards to FFP.

 

IF we did go down and attendances dropped, they'd simply close the new tier and we'd revert back to 32K until it was needed again (which would be likely, as with TV money/parachute payments we'd have a huge advantage over the rest of the championship). It'd be like playing in the current stadium all over again - with no change it atmosphere to how it has been in recent years.

 

Thousands of fans (both current and those 'plastics' who might become fans) are missing out, and some of you are suggesting that they should continue to do so just because there's a slight chance that the atmosphere will dip a little bit IF the club performs badly or stays the same.

 

There is absolutely no reason to be against a stadium expansion, other than pure selfishness.

[Bob Weasel Fox]

The stadium cost £37m to build, and was built with expansion in mind so any further build wouldn't be as difficult/costly.

There is absolutely no way an extra 10k seats will cost us £35m. Not a chance.

And even if it did, so what? Our owners are loaded, our club is debt-free. TV money is immense, so our owners wouldn't even have to inject any capital for it, and if they did it'd be pocket money to them. The club could easily be self-sufficient on the new TV deal, so we wouldn't even notice the missing £x million that goes towards the expansion. And in fact, in future years it'll benefit us massively as we'll be able to generate more revenue and as such be able to spend more with regards to FFP.

IF we did go down and attendances dropped, they'd simply close the new tier and we'd revert back to 32K until it was needed again (which would be likely, as with TV money/parachute payments we'd have a huge advantage over the rest of the championship). It'd be like playing in the current stadium all over again - with no change it atmosphere to how it has been in recent years.

Thousands of fans (both current and those 'plastics' who might become fans) are missing out, and some of you are suggesting that they should continue to do so just because there's a slight chance that the atmosphere will dip a little bit IF the club performs badly or stays the same.

There is absolutely no reason to be against a stadium expansion, other than pure selfishness.

I wouldn't go as far as saying they are selfish but certainly any fans against it seriously lack ambition in my humble opinion

[inckley fox]

If we go down, we won't fill it. If we stay up and become an established middle table team, unfortunately the excitement and passion surrounding the club at the moment will somewhat fade, and we won't fill it. That's how I see it. 

 

I don't this fits in with the general trend in football, does it? Maybe I'm wrong. But we added 5000-10,000 fans during the Little era (okay, I know we'd lost the same number under Pleat, but still...), and a further 5000-10,000 after the O'Neill era, when we had the capacity (upon relegation, actually), then a further 5000+ when we became successful under Pearson. I see no reason to believe we won't continue to expand our fanbase. And I don't remember the excitement and passion fading the last time we had a sustained spell in the top flight, quite the opposite in fact.

[Xen]

I wouldn't go as far as saying they are selfish but certainly any fans against it seriously lack ambition in my humble opinion

 

There are people on here genuinely saying that they'd rather we kept it as it was so that the atmosphere (which they can experience) will continue to be good, while there are thousands of other fans and potential fans who are simply unable to get tickets.

 

That to me is pretty much the definition of selfish.

[Guest]

I'm all for expansion. Originally I would have said to wait a few years, but seeing as planning permission and construction etc etc would probably take 1 year +, I reckon we're better off starting sooner than later.

 

I'd be interested in what industry studies say is the minimum target ratio for sales/capacity. If you expand by 10k and average attendance goes up by 5k, is it still justified? Should you expand by 5k now, wait a few years and do another 5k? Or are you better off cost-wise getting it all done in one go and having spare capacity for a while?

 

And it may have been mentioned here before, but if demand stays high and we don't expand, then surely that just encourages the owners to raise ticket prices.

[Jace]

Its so annoying I go regularly every season in league 1 and the Championship and then as soon as we get to the Premier League I can no longer get tickets because availability doesn't make it past season ticket holders and gold priority members, yet many appear to be under some illusion that we will struggle to sell more seats?

[fleckneymike]

I wouldn't go as far as saying they are selfish but certainly any fans against it seriously lack ambition in my humble opinion

 

Far from it, I'd say we were pragmatic. The priority is remaining in the division, any distraction from that is unwanted. Why stop at 42k, that lacks ambition, why not 100k seats? Did the people who chose not to attend during the lean years lack ambition?

 

We've had one season at this level, it has taken us a decade to get back to the Premier League and we almost slipped out of it during the last campaign. The dull truth is that TV revenue is far more important than match day receipts to the club. Any expansion of the ground is unlikely be for the benefit of those supporters who have struggled to afford the price of ST, any expansion will prioritise corporate seats and hospitality packages.

 

Would I like to see an increase in capacity? Yes. Is it a priority? No. Is it holding the club back? No.

[Bob Weasel Fox]

Its so annoying I go regularly every season in league 1 and the Championship and then as soon as we get to the Premier League I can no longer get tickets because availability doesn't make it past season ticket holders and gold priority members, yet many appear to be under some illusion that we will struggle to sell more seats?

Fair point Jace I agree

Also the people saying wait a year or two, do they not think planning permission etc would eat up that time anyway?

Do it now that's what I say

[Jace]

Fair point Jace I agree

Also the people saying wait a year or two, do they not think planning permission etc would eat up that time anyway?

Do it now that's what I say

 

It was the same story this time last year several fans said wait till we have a season in the Premier League first we will only be full for the top 4/5 teams, all my mates and my gf and her family all support Man Utd and we can get tickets for the majority of their matches every season yet for Leicester you can't even get tickets against the likes of Doncaster and Burnley. It just baffles me how so many are unaware that there is a massive demand shortage many seem to have forgotten the overnight queues around the stadium just to try and get tickets against Watford in the Championship few years back

[Bob Weasel Fox]

It was the same story this time last year several fans said wait till we have a season in the Premier League first we will only be full for the top 4/5 teams, all my mates and my gf and her family all support Man Utd and we can get tickets for the majority of their matches every season yet for Leicester you can't even get tickets against the likes of Doncaster and Burnley. It just baffles me how so many are unaware that there is a massive demand shortage many seem to have forgotten the overnight queues around the stadium just to try and get tickets against Watford in the Championship few years back

Exactly

[sylofox]

Not sure if this has been said.

 

As we don't have planning permission the earliest this could start is in 12 months.

 

So taking we stay up and go for the expansion we will have been up for 2 years if we go ahead.

 

How many years do people want us to stay up before we do this?

Bear in mind every year we are up we lose money I am not an ST holder but can't get to games as tickets sell out.

[fleckneymike]

Not sure if this has been said.

 

As we don't have planning permission the earliest this could start is in 12 months.

 

So taking we stay up and go for the expansion we will have been up for 2 years if we go ahead.

 

How many years do people want us to stay up before we do this?

Bear in mind every year we are up we lose money I am not an ST holder but can't get to games as tickets sell out.

 

We'll only 'lose' money should demand constantly outstrip supply. This is the first time in 10 years that scenario has occured.

 

We do 'lose' money by not being in the Premier league, until such a time that we minimise the risk of losing out status as a top flight side I can't see the club channeling revenue away from the playing squad into the ground.

[Gerard]

We'll only 'lose' money should demand constantly outstrip supply. This is the first time in 10 years that scenario has occured.

 

We do 'lose' money by not being in the Premier league, until such a time that we minimise the risk of losing out status as a top flight side I can't see the club channeling revenue away from the playing squad into the ground.

 

 

I'm not sure how much "channelling" of funds would go from the playing squad to the ground.

 

Pearson seems to appreciate the value of money. He would rather get value and get a 8/10 on a free than pay £12,000,000 for a 9/10 player. I would wager Pearson has never been refused a player because the club didn't want to pay the transfer fee.

 

Demand is outstripping supply. It's imperative we ride this wave and get the 10,000 extra seats now and keep the interest going. Almost every club who has built more seats gets higher attendances and the evidence is for all to see that more capacity WILL results in higher attendances.

 

If we stay at 32,500 we'll be typical of all clubs with this capacity, destined to struggle in the PL or be successful in the Championship. We need to improve our perception and move to being ambitious rather than mediocre.

 

It's an absolute no brainer.

[Xen]

Not sure if this has been said.

 

As we don't have planning permission the earliest this could start is in 12 months.

 

So taking we stay up and go for the expansion we will have been up for 2 years if we go ahead.

 

How many years do people want us to stay up before we do this?

Bear in mind every year we are up we lose money I am not an ST holder but can't get to games as tickets sell out.

 

I'd wager that we're already requesting planning permission, with a view to starting the expansion next May.

 

If the situation changes and we don't want to go ahead with the expansion, we're not obligated to do so just because we have permission. It'll just make it a quicker process if we then follow through with it further down the line.

[Bob Weasel Fox]

I'd wager that we're already requesting planning permission, with a view to starting the expansion next May.

If the situation changes and we don't want to go ahead with the expansion, we're not obligated to do so just because we have permission. It'll just make it a quicker process if we then follow through with it further down the line.

Sounds sensible enough

[CosbehFox]

I'd wager that we're already requesting planning permission, with a view to starting the expansion next May.

If the situation changes and we don't want to go ahead with the expansion, we're not obligated to do so just because we have permission. It'll just make it a quicker process if we then follow through with it further down the line.

Planning permission is a very public process for info. We would hear about it two to three post submission and the plans would be available for us to look at on a public portal.

My personal opinion is that the Thais feel the need to release a bragging statement every Summer to keep the club in the public eye (of Thailand) The same happened last year with the spending claims which didn't materialise. It also counter acted the idiotic three's behaviour in Bangkok.

The situation regarding the demand of tickets is exactly how they want it. In this position, they can rise the prices. As Fleckney says as well, you can bet any extension will prioritise corporate facilities just like the work ongoing at Man City and Anfield.

[CosbehFox]

The stadium cost £37m to build, and was built with expansion in mind so any further build wouldn't be as difficult/costly.

There is absolutely no way an extra 10k seats will cost us £35m. Not a chance.

Well first and foremost since the construction of our stadium, the industry has been through a boom and now faces an issue with material/labour availability. Similarly contractors very likely to price a risk factor into any tender because of how we ripped off the contractor when building the stadium. .

The stadium needs to stay open, so the construction period takes longer and this again has a cost implication. There will be a crossover period last week of May to first week of August is not enough time.

Its also likely that regardless of the stadium being built with an extension as a possibility given the nature of how it rocks, it is ideal opportunity to strengthen the foundations (something which on Southampton's extension maybe a total necessarily).

Man City's 7,000 expansion is quoted as costing £50 million.

[theessexfox]

Imo you don't expand based on a peak of support, if demand is still high after 3 years in the Prem or a year in the Championship then yeah an expansion is needed, but the first season back in the top flight isn't a good indicator as to whether it will be a sustainable investment long-term.

[thybluefox]

Imo you don't expand based on a peak of support, if demand is still high after 3 years in the Prem or a year in the Championship then yeah an expansion is needed, but the first season back in the top flight isn't a good indicator as to whether it will be a sustainable investment long-term.

 

So we wait 3 years, then planning takes 12 - 18 months, and then we wait 6 months for the season to finish and for work to begin. Meaning in 5+ years from now, we might have some more seats. In the meantime we've lost an unknown number of potential fans in the 3 years that we waited around for.

 

No one is expecting them to break ground this afternoon, but the wheels need to be in motion now. If we go down next season, then they put in on ice. It's really not that hard to understand. 

[iancognito]

Imo you don't expand based on a peak of support, if demand is still high after 3 years in the Prem or a year in the Championship then yeah an expansion is needed, but the first season back in the top flight isn't a good indicator as to whether it will be a sustainable investment long-term.

 

This. The likes of Stoke and Swansea have never expanded after promotion because after an initial surge in ticket demands, it tailed off and it's not been required. I'd honestly love to see the capacity expand and have tickets for all that wanted them but the worst thing we could do would be expand and then struggle fill it. Worse, be relegated and have 23-26000 crowds in a 42000 stadium. 16000 empty seats would be a horrible sight, Coventry-style. As I said in an earlier reply. Give it another season and then add piece by piece. East stand, then North stand and so on.

[Ollie93]

So we wait 3 years, then planning takes 12 - 18 months, and then we wait 6 months for the season to finish and for work to begin. Meaning in 5+ years from now, we might have some more seats. In the meantime we've lost an unknown number of potential fans in the 3 years that we waited around for.

 

No one is expecting them to break ground this afternoon, but the wheels need to be in motion now. If we go down next season, then they put in on ice. It's really not that hard to understand. 

 

Planning won't take 12-18 months. Its usually a 12 week turnaround once it goes in, the drawings will be getting made up now with comments being made. They will get it pushed through quickly because it benefits the council.

[davieG]

Planning won't take 12-18 months. Its usually a 12 week turnaround once it goes in, the drawings will be getting made up now with comments being made. They will get it pushed through quickly because it benefits the council.

Not if someone like the 'offside' group that opposed the Bede Island development get involved. i'm sure even if the council is in favour they'll be a number of caveats such as park and ride which we still haven't implemented as part of the original stadium build, maybe they wont be so believing this time in any promises made.

 

Any expansion is bound to include the holding of bigger and more concerts than the current 6 a year which maybe essential in justifying the cost and there were a fair few objections to just having 6.

 

Bottom line there's plenty of potential non-football problems associated with any expansion that could hold it up for a long while.