jimmeh Posted 13 June 2015 Posted 13 June 2015 Will he actually be considered a great manager in years to come by the football world? He almost looks a bit past his sell by date now unfortunately. A great man manager but I don't think he has changed as football has changed. Opinions?
jimmeh Posted 13 June 2015 Author Posted 13 June 2015 http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/jun/13/martin-oneill-ireland-scotland-european-championship-qualifier Good article on his career petering out somewhat.
Sampson Posted 13 June 2015 Posted 13 June 2015 I remember reading a while back he's not interested in things like sports science and statistical analysis and is one of the very few managers who doesn't even use ProZone. He's a great man manager no doubt but the game has moved on from that over the past decade or so and its hard to compete against managers who meticulously scientifically measure everything on just man management alone. I fear he's failed to really evolve with the game and he seems a bit of his time now.
Tuna Posted 13 June 2015 Posted 13 June 2015 Have to agree I'm afraid. I don't think his petulant departure from Villa did him any favours and his spell at Sunderland was desperate remembered only for transfer failures like Fletcher, Graham and Johnson. It's sad to see but we'll always love him.
BlueSi13 Posted 13 June 2015 Posted 13 June 2015 Felt sorry for him today as to be frank, where on earth is the quality in that Ireland side?
LanguedocFox Posted 13 June 2015 Posted 13 June 2015 It's another example of the Peter Hodge curse: no manager of Leicester City ever goes on to bigger things. Well, OK, he did OK at Celtic (who wouldn't?) but his subsequent career - like that of every manager who has left us for "bigger challenges" over the past 80 years - has been less than glorious. Let's hope Mr Pearson reads this.
Rincewind Posted 13 June 2015 Posted 13 June 2015 He came to City at the right time. There was already the base of a decent squad and they happened to bond together and O'Neil added players who enjoyed playing as much as the money. They would not have got in the top sides and were grateful for the chance.
Leicesterpool Posted 13 June 2015 Posted 13 June 2015 I don't think he's an international manager, I remember when he was linked to the England job after McClaren had left and even back then I didn't think he'd suit an international post. He's a club man and needs to be at a club with less expectancy. It's a difficult job the Republic Of Ireland, you've got restricted choice and have to rely on aged players that may well be past their sell by date, also having to pinch players from other nations.
inckley fox Posted 13 June 2015 Posted 13 June 2015 I think a few Leicester managers, including Peter Hodge (won the same 2nd div. trophy that he won with Leicester while at Man City and took them to 3rd in the League afterwards) have been successful after Leicester. Little won a League Cup, Holloway won promotion to the top flight (twice), Megson managed for a few years at the highest level as did Pleat; Levein managed Scotland, Milne Besiktas (where he's still a legend), even O'Neill had modest success with Celtic and Villa. As for O'Neill, he's not necessarily become a weaker manager, he's just made appalling career decisions. The one year hiatus at Celtic may well have been involuntary (it was also badly timed), but the decision to quit a top half EPL side for Scotland in the first place, or stay at Celtic for 4/5 years, or choose Villa when he would have been a candidate for lots of other Premier League posts, or leave Villa when he did, or go to Sunderland were all laughable choices. As for taking the ROI job after his third 'year off' in a decade; well, I don't know what he expected. If he has lost anything then it's his energy. He doesn't come across as anything like the bouncing madman hell-bent on defying the odds that he used to be. But he's a bright guy, far brighter than most other top flight managers. He'll be aware of tactical and technological developments. His decision to focus on motivation and organisation over strategy is nothing new, nor is it necessarily outdated. Sadly, if you spend your whole career taking backward steps you'll never be the manager you could have been. He's 63. He could take charge of a FLC side this summer, take them up, keep them up, win a Cup, have a great next six or seven years and surpass what he did with Leicester. A guy with his talent could do it if he really wanted to. Yet I remember him once saying 'maybe when I say that I'm too old for all this silly jumping around I should just call it a day', and I think - sadly - that he decided he was too old for that many years ago.
Leicesterpool Posted 13 June 2015 Posted 13 June 2015 Have to agree I'm afraid. I don't think his petulant departure from Villa did him any favours and his spell at Sunderland was desperate remembered only for transfer failures like Fletcher, Graham and Johnson. It's sad to see but we'll always love him. I don't think he meant to leave Villa, I think what happened was... The board demanded the sale of Milner, MON refused and decided to send an ultimatum. Thinking the board would reject his resignation and accept MON's demands, unfortunately Villa accepted his resignation! leaving MON in limbo and in some ways making him look unprofessional, meaning resigning a few days before the season began!
Jimothy Posted 13 June 2015 Posted 13 June 2015 He came to City at the right time. There was already the base of a decent squad and they happened to bond together and O'Neil added players who enjoyed playing as much as the money. They would not have got in the top sides and were grateful for the chance. I think you're downplaying what he did. Yes we had some decent players when he joined, but he was here for 5 years, winning two domestic trophies, whatever team he picked up had no bearing on his latter years. He signed the likes of Keller, Flowers, Elliott, Taggart, Prior, Lennon, Izzet, Guppy, Impey, Claridge, Cottee, Savage, Kaamark, and I probably missed more. Most picked up from the lower league for next to nothing. He built a new team over the years and his was his man management that helped build that bond they had. To say his success here was due to the luck of taking over at the right time is unfair. At that time he was a brilliant manager and took a team built on a shoestring to new heights. I agree with others though, his style is now outdated.
katieakita Posted 13 June 2015 Posted 13 June 2015 Bet Villa would have his 6th/ 7th place finishes in PL now.
Rincewind Posted 13 June 2015 Posted 13 June 2015 I was not cricising his management style. As you say he picked up players from lower leagues but there were some players already here as well as backroom staff. They all gelled together. Pearson is a modern day manager who has the same skill. O'neill learnt his trade off Clough. Maybe he would have flopprd as an international manager even though he was the fans choice.
Jimothy Posted 13 June 2015 Posted 13 June 2015 I was not cricising his management style. As you say he picked up players from lower leagues but there were some players already here as well as backroom staff. They all gelled together. Pearson is a modern day manager who has the same skill. O'neill learnt his trade off Clough. Maybe he would have flopprd as an international manager even though he was the fans choice. You missed my point. Yes there were players already here, but within a year the vast majority had been replaced. So your point that his success was largely built on s group that were already mates is false. Also he brought a few of his own staff in, including Robertson.
Jordan Posted 13 June 2015 Posted 13 June 2015 Have to agree I'm afraid. I don't think his petulant departure from Villa did him any favours and his spell at Sunderland was desperate remembered only for transfer failures like Fletcher, Graham and Johnson. It's sad to see but we'll always love him.I can't fault him too much for Villa, it must be a bitch to work for Randy Lerner. But I really thought Sunderland was the end for him.Anybody's going to have a difficult time managing Ireland's national team at a time when people consider Wes Hoolahan a "luxury player." I think O'Neill's day is probably over and he's mentoring Roy Keane for the Ireland job. For me, though, the end of O'Neill's career won't affect his legacy one bit. I've got loads of respect for him.
fleckneymike Posted 13 June 2015 Posted 13 June 2015 MON and his back room staff were the perfect storm of coaching. He never 'picked' the players but he cajoled and coaxed them to greatness. Coaching isn't the same as managing. Coaching can be learnt, managing is innate. Fergie had both, in the modern era MON came as close as it gets and the sale of Heskey denied this club its best ever chance of breaking into the elite. Keep Emile, keep Martin and watch us push on. Emile went, MON followed and two short years later it has finished in debt and destitution. It's taken a decade and countless millions to get even close to that man. For all Pearson's pro zones, scouts, opta index, etc MON had FOUR consecutive top ten finishes, 3 cup finals in four years and a European campaign based on a natural talent for reading players. If you like now you've no idea how much you'd have loved then.
Nick Posted 13 June 2015 Posted 13 June 2015 Had a hell of a lot to deal with in his personal life - quality manager.
CosbehFox Posted 13 June 2015 Posted 13 June 2015 The Terrence Malick of football management. Quality description. Sadly after Leicester and then taking Celtic to an European failure, it's been a lot of misses by MON. I'd love to have seen him given further backing at Villa. However, he made a massive mistake when he put out a weakened side in the latter stages of the Europa League against CSKA Moscow. Killed the support he had there.
Wymsey Posted 13 June 2015 Posted 13 June 2015 He uses an old-fashioned approach to managing, with some better than others - his team often lacks the cutting-edge up front. Don't know why but he reminds me of General Smuts's avatar .
Kitchandro Posted 14 June 2015 Posted 14 June 2015 People underrate the job he did at Villa. Look at where they were finishing before him and look at where they are finishing now. He actually did brilliantly there. He did poorly at Sunderland but all his previous work was great.He isn't the same character he was here though. His passion back then was infectious, I think it rubbed off on the whole club. He just doesn't show that as much now in interviews or his mannerisms.
Aus Fox Posted 14 June 2015 Posted 14 June 2015 When he came here he had come directly from a successful period at Wycombe, via a small stint in Norwich. He had a point to prove, he wanted to make a name for himself and become as successful a manager as he was a player. He did everything right, with the coaching team in place and the scoting network up and running, he didn't make a bad signing. (If he did I can't think of them). He played to players strengths, players like Robbie Savage were very limited in what try could actually do, but he made them into regular premier league players who took on the best, and more often than not won. He then got his dream move to the club he loved in Celtic, after a successful period there without becoming a great and things in his personal life I believe he lost a little passion, his stronget attribute. This was further kicked with the way he left Villa. By the time he arrived at Sunderland I believe he was a shell of the manager we had seen kicking every ball on the touch line, celebrating every goal like one of us and questioning everyone who dared to have a go at 'boring' Leicester. Would love to see him take Ireland to the Euros and World Cup but I think this will be tough with a limited squad. I can't see him taking another job after this one. A great manager in terms of our Football club, but unfortunately just another manager in terms of the bigger picture of football in general.
Bryn Posted 14 June 2015 Posted 14 June 2015 His ignorance of non-domestic football and aversion to sports science make him an inadequate modern manager.
Sampson Posted 14 June 2015 Posted 14 June 2015 People underrate the job he did at Villa. Look at where they were finishing before him and look at where they are finishing now. He actually did brilliantly there. He did poorly at Sunderland but all his previous work was great. He isn't the same character he was here though. His passion back then was infectious, I think it rubbed off on the whole club. He just doesn't show that as much now in interviews or his mannerisms. Where they're finishing now has a good deal to do with how he left them though. Villa and Spurs were both spending big money back then in an attempt to make it to the Chsmpions League - Spurs managed it and so have managed to stay there with the money they got from it, whereas Villa could never make the step up and he walked out on them right before the start of the season knowing what gets have to cut the cloth and sell a lot of players because they didn't make it into the CL. I remember one season especially when they were 3rd in the league up until about March, about 10 points ahead of Arsenal in 5th and they completely bottled it and went on a long winless run and ended up finishing 6th. He ultimately failed in his goal at Villa and left them in a bit of a mess with his very short-term approach.
Vacamion Posted 14 June 2015 Posted 14 June 2015 Ireland were never going to have it easy given their talent pool, but they were truly Donald Ducked the minute they were drawn into the group of death. That said, they've not massively underperformed. They got a draw with ze Germans. Anyone expecting MON to sweep all before him and qualify from this group was deluded. Just as much as anyone who denies Martin's massive achievements when he managed City is deluded.
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