Demarai Gray

[Buce]

I'm about 6'2 and he's nowhere near... rather than admit defeat he also insists I'm more like 6'5

I didn't know you could stack it that high...

[An Away Move]

Looks great! Gerrimin!

[Lovejoy]

I'm taking in MK Dons vs Brun at the weekend, wonder if Demerai will still be there to watch...

[Thracian]

http://www.teamtalk.com/birmingham-city/9967875/-?

 

 

Wouldn't be surprised about this. If all Leicester were likely to offer would be a loan-out arrangement or a place on the bench why on earth would he want to move from a club where he can play to come here - especially when there are sure to be other suitors who will see he gets to play? Dodoo will likely face the same frustration.

 

The problem is - at it is at big clubs all over the country - is that we can't play everyone and therefore have no means of "finishing" players to the level necessary - except by sending them back to where they came from or to another club of similar status. It's pathetic. The whole loan system is a counter-productive joke as far as homegrown talent is concerned.

 

I wouldn't mind if all we imported was superstars those youngsters really could learn from even in their home environment. But we don't. For every genuinely excellent player we import any number of ordinary ones and I don't mean just at Leicester although, Kante excepted, I've not seen anyone to consistently excite me among our newcomers.

 

At mostly a few millions each, I just assume they'll prove me wrong. But if Demarai Gray is not good enough to get in our first team alongside those already here, I've no idea why we'd be bothering to try to buy him in the first place.

 

We've got stacks of players on the research and development track without signing another for the same frustrating journey.

 

Either buy the lad and use him or let someone else enjoy the benefit.

 

Our finishing school just doesn't have the pedigree to give guarantees or even be convincing. Yes, we've had King, Schlupp, Moore, Stearman and Gradel but we've had countless failures as Babs will pointedly remind us all from time to time. 

 

And, even of those five, I'd only describe King and Schlupp as being "established" or "comfortable" in Premiership company.  It's not the greatest advert for all our self congratulation...and it remains to be seen if either Dodoo or Chilwell can improve the record but we'll see.

 

Both are as likely to get lost in action elsewhere as to have the chance to break through here.       

[jammie82uk]

Ranieri coy on Gray link

 

Leicester City boss Claudio Ranieri will not comment on speculation of a rumoured bid for Birmingham City youngster Demarai Gray.

 

Claudio Ranieri refused to be drawn on rumours linking Leicester City with a bid for Birmingham City winger Demarai Gray

.

Gray, an England Under-20 international who only signed his most recent contract in July, scored six goals in 41 Championship appearances for Gary Rowett's side last term.

 

"I don't speak about speculation," said the Italian when asked if Leicester had agreed to meet the reported £4.7million release clause in the 19-year-old's contract.

 

"He's a good player, but there is not only him, there are other good players as well, and I have a lot of good players here.

 

"I am very happy with the squad, but if somebody wants to leave, then they talk to me in my office and I will respect that.

 

"But nobody has done that, and until someone does then I am happy with all the players I have."

 

[Spudulike]

"I am very happy with the squad, but if somebody wants to leave, then they talk to me in my office and I will respect that."

 

Sounds like a coded message to someone that wants to leave

[Benji]

"I am very happy with the squad, but if somebody wants to leave, then they talk to me in my office and I will respect that."

 

Sounds like a coded message to someone that wants to leave

Yes. Until of cousre you read the next line.

"But nobody has done that, and until someone does then I am happy with all the players I have."

[jammie82uk]

Yes. Until of cousre you read the next line.

"But nobody has done that, and until someone does then I am happy with all the players I have."

Could still be considered a coded message seems like he could have pre-empted the next question

[Spudulike]

Yes. Until of cousre you read the next line.

"But nobody has done that, and until someone does then I am happy with all the players I have."

 

Sounds to me that someone has whispered into the managers ear about a discontented player and this is an attempt to flush him out. Why else even mention it ??

[LCCFox96]

http://www.teamtalk.com/birmingham-city/9967875/-?

 

 

Wouldn't be surprised about this. If all Leicester were likely to offer would be a loan-out arrangement or a place on the bench why on earth would he want to move from a club where he can play to come here - especially when there are sure to be other suitors who will see he gets to play? Dodoo will likely face the same frustration.

 

At mostly a few millions each, I just assume they'll prove me wrong. But if Demarai Gray is not good enough to get in our first team alongside those already here, I've no idea why we'd be bothering to try to buy him in the first place.

 

We've got stacks of players on the research and development track without signing another for the same frustrating journey.

 

Either buy the lad and use him or let someone else enjoy the benefit.

 

I completely disagree with this.

 

1) Demarai Gray has held down a starting spot at a lower-midtable Championship side since he was an old 17/young 18 year old graduate. Joe Dodoo is now 20. Rewind 2 years and he was nothing like as ready as Gray was for Championship football at his age. Both are exciting prospects but Gray is clearly the better player given the impact he's made on the Birmingham side for 2 seasons at a younger age than Dodoo. For that reason, he's probably a lot more talented than our own u/21 regulars and more ready for PL life.

 

2) Ranieri has said he is in the market to strengthen his options. Many on here would agree we need another winger. With Schlupp most prominently deployed at LB it leaves us with Albrighton and Mahrez as our only two wingers. Yes, we could push Schlupp forward in a crisis but at the moment Gray would come in as 3rd choice, behind the PL experienced and England called up touted Albrighton and the supremely talented Mahrez. That's bloody good for a 19 year old winger and likely an attractive proposition for him as a player. He won't just be thinking about this season, he will be thinking about seasons to come (I'd imagine we'd table a 4 year deal).

 

3) As with point 2, I think, should we land Gray, we would use him fairly regularly from the bench in the league and give him a number of cup starts. For a break through PL season it gives us the opportunity to develop a talent ready to step up ahead of our own academy players and use him more regularly in the future, the guy is only 19. We wouldn't be interested in him if one of our own players was ready to step up. Dodoo was excellent at Bury and I hope he steps up from the academy (agree with your point about the loan system) but he likely isn't ready yet. On that basis, Gray, who judging by the number of PL teams that have sniffed about and his performances, who is ready would be a good signing for us. 

 

4) You mention other suitors. If he leaves it will be for PL football. He'd get as good an opportunity to break into the side with us, as a recently promoted side, under Ranieri who has a reputation for bringing good young players through, than he would anywhere else. Such is the nature of the PL these days.

 

Dodoo on loan + £4.8mil would be smart business. We get a very talented youngster whilst we farm out one of our own to compensate and at a suitable level for him.

[Benji]

Sounds to me that someone has whispered into the managers ear about a discontented player and this is an attempt to flush him out. Why else even mention it ??

Have you listened or read any of his English over the past month? He's saying he's happy with his squad, in his crazy Italian way.

[NewburyFox]

http://www.teamtalk.com/birmingham-city/9967875/-?

Wouldn't be surprised about this. If all Leicester were likely to offer would be a loan-out arrangement or a place on the bench why on earth would he want to move from a club where he can play to come here - especially when there are sure to be other suitors who will see he gets to play? Dodoo will likely face the same frustration.

The problem is - at it is at big clubs all over the country - is that we can't play everyone and therefore have no means of "finishing" players to the level necessary - except by sending them back to where they came from or to another club of similar status. It's pathetic. The whole loan system is a counter-productive joke as far as homegrown talent is concerned.

I wouldn't mind if all we imported was superstars those youngsters really could learn from even in their home environment. But we don't. For every genuinely excellent player we import any number of ordinary ones and I don't mean just at Leicester although, Kante excepted, I've not seen anyone to consistently excite me among our newcomers.

At mostly a few millions each, I just assume they'll prove me wrong. But if Demarai Gray is not good enough to get in our first team alongside those already here, I've no idea why we'd be bothering to try to buy him in the first place.

We've got stacks of players on the research and development track without signing another for the same frustrating journey.

Either buy the lad and use him or let someone else enjoy the benefit.

Our finishing school just doesn't have the pedigree to give guarantees or even be convincing. Yes, we've had King, Schlupp, Moore, Stearman and Gradel but we've had countless failures as Babs will pointedly remind us all from time to time.

And, even of those five, I'd only describe King and Schlupp as being "established" or "comfortable" in Premiership company. It's not the greatest advert for all our self congratulation...and it remains to be seen if either Dodoo or Chilwell can improve the record but we'll see.

Both are as likely to get lost in action elsewhere as to have the chance to break through here.

So essentially we shouldn't sign any players with huge potential but aren't quite good enough for starting in the PL yet?

[Thracian]

I completely disagree with this.

 

1) Demarai Gray has held down a starting spot at a lower-midtable Championship side since he was an old 17/young 18 year old graduate. Joe Dodoo is now 20. Rewind 2 years and he was nothing like as ready as Gray was for Championship football at his age. Both are exciting prospects but Gray is clearly the better player given the impact he's made on the Birmingham side for 2 seasons at a younger age than Dodoo. For that reason, he's probably a lot more talented than our own u/21 regulars and more ready for PL life.

 

2) Ranieri has said he is in the market to strengthen his options. Many on here would agree we need another winger. With Schlupp most prominently deployed at LB it leaves us with Albrighton and Mahrez as our only two wingers. Yes, we could push Schlupp forward in a crisis but at the moment Gray would come in as 3rd choice, behind the PL experienced and England called up touted Albrighton and the supremely talented Mahrez. That's bloody good for a 19 year old winger and likely an attractive proposition for him as a player. He won't just be thinking about this season, he will be thinking about seasons to come (I'd imagine we'd table a 4 year deal).

 

3) As with point 2, I think, should we land Gray, we would use him fairly regularly from the bench in the league and give him a number of cup starts. For a break through PL season it gives us the opportunity to develop a talent ready to step up ahead of our own academy players and use him more regularly in the future, the guy is only 19. We wouldn't be interested in him if one of our own players was ready to step up. Dodoo was excellent at Bury and I hope he steps up from the academy (agree with your point about the loan system) but he likely isn't ready yet. On that basis, Gray, who judging by the number of PL teams that have sniffed about and his performances, who is ready would be a good signing for us. 

 

4) You mention other suitors. If he leaves it will be for PL football. He'd get as good an opportunity to break into the side with us, as a recently promoted side, under Ranieri who has a reputation for bringing good young players through, than he would anywhere else. Such is the nature of the PL these days.

 

Dodoo on loan + £4.8mil would be smart business. We get a very talented youngster whilst we farm out one of our own to compensate and at a suitable level for him.

 

 

I entirely agree that Dodoo is not as far forward as Gray and would be delighted with a deal such as you suggest. I just don't see the point in signing Gray unless we're going to use and involve him.  

[Wymsey]

Lloyd Dyer, mark two.

 

Can appear to be greedy at times, but has strong potential - particularly if he learns via Mahrez (who's an absolute shiny star at the minute).

[Thracian]

So essentially we shouldn't sign any players with huge potential but aren't quite good enough for starting in the PL yet?

 

 

That's not the essence of my thinking at all. Quite the contrary. I'm all for signing young players of huge potential and then involving them at every level.

 

Too many people talk the talk about development but then seem to find an excuse to say players are "not quite ready, the match is too important or we should just play them in Cup games."

 

Far from not signing players of "huge potential" I'd far rather we were more choosy and spent more time working on youngsters who really did have the ability to succeed rather than conducting an expensive social service that has far too high a failure rate.

 

There's a balance to be found but the focusing of attention may well result in greater success.

 

Gray is way through the Academy stage and I can see no benefit in sitting an outstanding 19-year-old on a bench if we're not going to use him regularly. He needs to be involved. Southampton manage to involve emerging players. We've only been half-hearted about it.            

[CosbehFox]

Lloyd Dyer, mark two.

Can appear to be greedy at times, but has strong potential - particularly if he learns via Mahrez (who's an absolute shiny star at the minute).

No, he's better than that. Speaking to a lad who has to watch a lot of Midlands football for work, he says he's far better than Grealish for example

[LCCFox96]

I entirely agree that Dodoo is not as far forward as Gray and would be delighted with a deal such as you suggest. I just don't see the point in signing Gray unless we're going to use and involve him.  

 

 

 

Gray is way through the Academy stage and I can see no benefit in sitting an outstanding 19-year-old on a bench if we're not going to use him regularly. He needs to be involved.

 

I can see the point your making about developing youth and agree with it to an extent. But look at the way you are describing Gray as a player. You're answering your own questions with those descriptions:

 

You say you are concerned we won't use Gray and will leave him in the same journey of top young talent to release list that so many of our academy players see. Yet you say Gray is way past the academy stage that the likes of Dodoo, Panayiotou and Cain all still play at, and note, apparently like many PL and England Youth managers, that Gray is an outstanding talent. I doubt we'd be interested in him if he wasn't because, as Dodoo proved on Tuesday, our own academy boys aren't too shabby, and therefore our interest in Gray suggests he is stronger and would therefore be involved in the first team where our own youngsters fail to be.

 

As for introducing him to PL football from the bench, surely that's a sensible move for a young outstanding talent to break him gently, especially as we can regularly while we are short on wide cover? I can't even see Gray himself taking issue with that. He would also know that for the first time in his career he is behind better players in the pecking order. Big fish, small pond:small fish, big pond and all that. Providing he isn't rotting in the reserves I don't see how we are wasting his talent at the tender and PL inexperienced age of 19. 

[Thracian]

In Gray's case I was answering those who'd sign Gray and then seek to loan him out or back to Brum. I'd see no reason not to involve him here and now with the right preparation.  

 

Of course he'd spend time on the bench but he'd need to get game time, not a 90-minute rest as happens too often. He wouldn't want to think of himself "behind" anyone.

 

He'd want to be showing the world what he can do. Kids of his age feed on football not pitchside chats and I don't see why it couldn't happen.

Some kids don't need a gentle introduction. The bigger the stage the happier they are.

 

Besides, if you pitch em in and find fault that's the best argument for convincing them they've more to learn and making sure they attend to it.   Born winners quickly learn to survive - it's in their nature.

 

Confidence grows quickly because they've had the experience of The Premiership and soon recognise what they need to improve, especially with the video playbacks.  

 

With Dodoo yes, I could see the case for a loan out, but one where he was guaranteed game-time or quickly returned.     

[AyewJoking]

No, he's better than that. Speaking to a lad who has to watch a lot of Midlands football for work(steward at Birmingham City), he says he's far better than Grealish for example

[SaffronDom]

Demerai Gray would be an excellent fit in the way we play. Alot of thought gone into this one. Could also be a money earner as hes now got a chance to play in the prem (fingers crossed) and for only 4.7m its a steal... Potentially.

[Rob1742]

Don't think this one is dead. His twittering shows he is a little confused at the moment.

We need more strength out wide, especially as Mahrez normally has a quiet spell after international duty.

Adds to the squad and he will be more than someone who makes up the numbers.

[adam95581]

People are talking about using our own academy players first but the argument is totally flawed. Firstly, as has been said they aren't good enough - a lot of the ones who are being touted haven't had the kind of experience at 19 that Gray has had. Secondly, at £4.6m the kid is a steal - clubs in this league are paying that sort of money in tribunal hearings for 15/16 year olds just to go into their development squads. We'd be getting a kid who is potentially ready for the match day squad. Sign him up.

[deep blue]

Given our dependence on fast wingers, I think we need to be bringing on 2 young wingers to develop them in case of loss of form, injury, etc of Albrighton and Mahrez. Also there's the tactical ability to bring on fresh legs on the wing later on, and someone who would present slightly different problems to the defender. Need also to look towards next season when Mahrez should be involved in African Cup. By that time we could have 2 replacements to slot right in, and still have another back-up in place. To my mind it is no disadvantage that Gray and Dodoo are at different stages in their development.

[Gerard]

There's absolutely no chance we would buy him and loan him back. If Mahrez or Albrighton get injured we're really struggling.

 

If he comes here he'll get plenty of game time, coming on as sub most matches and beginning to threaten for a first team place.

 

You can't compare Dodoo and Gray. There's every chance Dodoo will never be good enough for Leicester City and will find his level at Championship or League One. Gray on the other hand is a year younger than Dodoo and has 50 games at Championship level and I'm sure a lot of people would say he is Birmingham's best player and would make a Championship XI. Gray will almost certainly be a Premier League standard player throughout his career.

 

Buy Gray as cover for Albrighton & Mahrez and let him fight for his place. Dodoo should go out on loan and we'll see if he can continually perform above League One standard.

[Dan]

That's not the essence of my thinking at all. Quite the contrary. I'm all for signing young players of huge potential and then involving them at every level.

 

Too many people talk the talk about development but then seem to find an excuse to say players are "not quite ready, the match is too important or we should just play them in Cup games."

 

Far from not signing players of "huge potential" I'd far rather we were more choosy and spent more time working on youngsters who really did have the ability to succeed rather than conducting an expensive social service that has far too high a failure rate.

 

There's a balance to be found but the focusing of attention may well result in greater success.

 

Gray is way through the Academy stage and I can see no benefit in sitting an outstanding 19-year-old on a bench if we're not going to use him regularly. He needs to be involved. Southampton manage to involve emerging players. We've only been half-hearted about it.            

 

Well said. This whole situation for me is the perfect example of why the Premier League is counter productive for the national team. The stakes are too high to roll the dice and gamble. It's a mess.