Migrants - What's the answer?

[Merging Cultures]

Valid prospective refugees then, at least as valid as someone who is poor.

But one of the ways it has discriminated, at least how I see it, in this conflict is that the richer have afforded to get out of the conflict zone, so the benefit they have is now a disadvantage. I nearly changed that to bombs don't discriminate because my point was more if you leave rich and poor people in the same place in an active war zone, they are equally at risk.

Out of interest, what do you do? Very interesting list of places, you must have seen some horrible things.

Most people can get out of the conflict zone. People have walked for days/weeks/months to get out of conflicts. Check out the 'Lost Boys of Sudan', and another book I need to remember the name of...

The issue is that the people who have cash can get out quicker, and the ones on the boats are looking to bypass the system and choose where they want to go. A genuine refugee, in my opinion, wants to be safe and with their family.

Also the human traffickers are praying on them and making a fortune. No one should reward the human traffickers by letting unprocessed people in. They are endangering people.

The governments should be mounting a propaganda campaign letting people know the safest and quickest route to being a refugee is in a camp. And telling people about the deaths, discouraging them from taking too many risks.

I work on international development and live in Zambia. And I've seen some stuff.

[Captain...]

It may have been discussed in here already, but on a side note, what are peoples views on these "Refugees Welcome" banners being planned for football matches this weekend?

For me politics has no place at a football match and I don't agree with the clubs planning to take part in it.

 

I don't really agree with the banners, not because football should stay away from politics, I think football is intrinsically linked with its local community and therefore politics, but I just think the message is wrong. Whilst the sentiment is in the right place, it gives the impression that if you get to this country all will be fine. It will encourage more people to take risks with their safety and that there is a promised land.

 

If you are currently in a safe part of Syria and are debating giving all your life savings to some dodgy geezer with a rusty old boat and not enough life jackets to go round, this might just be the message to encourage you to take that risk.

 

The problem is #OfficiallysanctionedrefugeesthathavegonethroughtherightchannelsandhavegenuineneedforasylumWelcome is a bit of a mouthful.

 

What people need to see more than that is that the official channels working, that proper refugee camps are being set up and people are guaranteed safe passage and asylum without having to unnecessarily risk their lives. That should be the message, "Safe Passage For Refugees".

[bmt]

Would there ever be a political issue that everyone would agree on though? I would say not. Peoples views are always going to differ whatever the topic. Some people will argue the sky is green because they can. I think its very dodgy ground when people start using football as a platform to spread potentially controversial political messages.

Maybe not at Leicester but at some clubs with distinct political backgrounds and agendas there could be. Arguably safe standing is a political issue, but I would be happy for banners about safe standing to be in the stadium because (at least in the areas where it would be) nearly everyone would agree with it.

[bmt]

Most people can get out of the conflict zone. People have walked for days/weeks/months to get out of conflicts. Check out the 'Lost Boys of Sudan', and another book I need to remember the name of...

The issue is that the people who have cash can get out quicker, and the ones on the boats are looking to bypass the system and choose where they want to go. A genuine refugee, in my opinion, wants to be safe and with their family.

Also the human traffickers are praying on them and making a fortune. No one should reward the human traffickers by letting unprocessed people in. They are endangering people.

The governments should be mounting a propaganda campaign letting people know the safest and quickest route to being a refugee is in a camp. And telling people about the deaths, discouraging them from taking too many risks.

I work on international development and live in Zambia. And I've seen some stuff.

 

I think the human traffickers should have been targeted much quicker and governments should have reacted before this became a major issue on the tide of public opinion, so on most of those points I agree with you. I still feel some of the wealthier migrants/refugees are just trying to do what is best for their family, perhaps feeling (with some evidence on the opinions of Western European countries) that their best bet is to be one of the first to get to Western Europe as opposed to just another number in a refugee camp. It just all should have been sorted so much earlier rather than as a vote winning tool which I feel is how it is being used now.

 

I really want to work as an economist in international development in a few years time (I'm an Economics and Philosophy undergrad), I bet it's fascinating.

[Merging Cultures]

I think the human traffickers should have been targeted much quicker and governments should have reacted before this became a major issue on the tide of public opinion, so on most of those points I agree with you. I still feel some of the wealthier migrants/refugees are just trying to do what is best for their family, perhaps feeling (with some evidence on the opinions of Western European countries) that their best bet is to be one of the first to get to Western Europe as opposed to just another number in a refugee camp. It just all should have been sorted so much earlier rather than as a vote winning tool which I feel is how it is being used now.

I really want to work as an economist in international development in a few years time (I'm an Economics and Philosophy undergrad), I bet it's fascinating.

I agree, they are doing what is best for their family. And in the same situation, I'd use whatever influence I could to do the same.

The UK needs to do what is best for the UK though, and help refugees in camps who have gone through the process and are probably more vulnerable.

[Lineker's Left Foot]

Well for a start fellow Middle East countries like Oman, Kuwait, UAE and Saudi Arabia should be taking in the majority as these countries have a similar culture e.g. Religion to theirs. Yet again it is Britain who is providing money towards foreign aid - second highest - when we have our own people that are struggling for jobs. Plus what jobs are they meant on to do once here and I suppose they will be jumping the housing queue too.

[bmt]

Well for a start fellow Middle East countries like Oman, Kuwait, UAE and Saudi Arabia should be taking in the majority as these countries have a similar culture e.g. Religion to theirs. 

 

Two wrongs don't make a right. Some of those countries will never help; some of them don't care for their own people never mind others.

[Merging Cultures]

Well for a start fellow Middle East countries like Oman, Kuwait, UAE and Saudi Arabia should be taking in the majority as these countries have a similar culture e.g. Religion to theirs. Yet again it is Britain who is providing money towards foreign aid - second highest - when we have our own people that are struggling for jobs. Plus what jobs are they meant on to do once here and I suppose they will be jumping the housing queue too.

Yes, they should be stepping up. However, odd to mention religion. You do know there are Muslims in the UK??

In the meantime, the rest of the world should be distributing the refugees quickly and efficiently, based on economic strength, population density and other relevant factors (benefit structure perhaps).

[Lineker's Left Foot]

Yes, they should be stepping up. However, odd to mention religion. You do know there are Muslims in the UK??

In the meantime, the rest of the world should be distributing the refugees quickly and efficiently, based on economic strength, population density and other relevant factors (benefit structure perhaps).

Yes of course with regards to religion, but those countries are nearer to their culture than ours. The problem is they become integrated within their own little communities and in my experience, have no wish to immerse themselves amongst ourselves. Not being selfish, but I have a sixteen month old daughter with a little boy on the way and I would like to think they would be given priority in the jobs market over them I.e. If they had the same skills etc. I am sure that if the boot was on the other foot, they would not welcome us with such open arms

[RedSoxUK]

Well for a start fellow Middle East countries like Oman, Kuwait, UAE and Saudi Arabia should be taking in the majority as these countries have a similar culture e.g. Religion to theirs. Yet again it is Britain who is providing money towards foreign aid - second highest - when we have our own people that are struggling for jobs. Plus what jobs are they meant on to do once here and I suppose they will be jumping the housing queue too.

 

They have solid reasons as to why they reject. The reasons people suggest UAE/Saudi/Kuwait etc should take in a fair amount of refugees is because they're muslim countries and they're from the same corner of the world. What people seem to leave out is the difference in culture between Syria / Iraq / Lebanon / Turkey, and say Kuwait. There's an enormous difference; not particularly religious, but the rest is, and that's what matters to these elite Arab states. One's people is enormously rich, educated, pays theire way - another is poor, uneducated, and would not pay their way; it's a mathmatical and logical reason to deny refugee status for those Arab nations; though I agree completely that these are the ones who should be giving foreign aid to their neighbours more than anyone else. Not refuge in their own country, but foreign aid to help them where they are already.

[Bettsj2]

Do whatever you can for how ever many you can.

Not sure why religion keeps coming into it but as some keep saying we're a christian country. If people want to claim that they should accept that as a country we should act like it.

[The Year Of The Fox]

So many things wrong with your views, so many.

Not much point trying to convince you otherwise, you're clearly entrenched, I mean you actually quoted the Daily Express!

However, just one point, as you take great pride in your mates Charity efforts. Funny how Tories all love to brag about their ' great work for charity'.

Charity begins at home? Fair play, if you agree with that then why not back a 1p in the £ rise in tax, that will actually make the need for all charities redundant. We will have enough money to support all charitable causes.

What ? No? You don't want to pay more tax!? You want to live in your Thatcherite world? Thought so.

Pride? It's nothing to do with pride. Its a measly £500 that isn't being funded for by the NHS. The equipment- can't he bothered researching what it is- has saved lives. It's about getting our own house in order before we can contemplate taking more people in.

If we don't have the resources to help (or to even get by with our own citizens) in the NHS and Education (and arguably homes) how can we put further strain on the above?

I have plenty of empathy but as with anything political the things I'm most concerned about are the things that have a direct effect on me, my family and my friends. I have no shame in admitting that.

[ramboacdc]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-34176631

 

i had a full blown row with a guy on facebook about this. i cant wait to get home and rub it in his face he was full of shit and i was right that you cant take a picture off the internet and call it genuine. 

[ozleicester]

tens of thousands across oz finally stand up  

 

https://www.facebook.com/greenleftweekly/photos/a.705613009570561.1073741859.226910324107501/705613456237183/?type=1&theater

[Lionator]

This is disgraceful.

 

 

[Weller in Tights]

I've really have tried to read people's views with an open mind.

I have honestly tried to understand why different people think the way they do.

I have tried to accept that some people will display clearly gross, selfish opinions, then use the 'everyone's entitled to their opinion' mantra to defend their views.

But to be honest, (I hope my critics will at least accept I'm being honest here) I've had enough of this thread.

I really find some of the views abhorrent. The fact that some people can dismiss the need of millions, because let's face it, some people in this country basically don't want their standard of living affected.

They go on about, who will pay for it, they'll nick our jobs, they'll take our housing, they could be hiding terrorists, they won't integrate with our culture (that's a classic one, I'd love to know what some on here class as culture!).

But be honest, you just don't want to help, you don't want your standard of living compromised in any way.

You don't like to admit it because that makes you look a selfish ****.

Well fortunately not all people think that way, fortunately the British Public do have a wide range of opinions and hopefully enough feel

empathetic enough for us as a people to help.

Knock yourselves out on here slagging off my 'Loony Left' views, if that helps you get over yourself fair enough, some of you need all the help you can get in squaring the circle.

[Frank to be]

I've really have tried to read people's views with an open mind.

I have honestly tried to understand why different people think the way they do.

I have tried to accept that some people will display clearly gross, selfish opinions, then use the 'everyone's entitled to their opinion' mantra to defend their views.

But to be honest, (I hope my critics will at least accept I'm being honest here) I've had enough of this thread.

I really find some of the views abhorrent. The fact that some people can dismiss the need of millions, because let's face it, some people in this country basically don't want their standard of living affected.

They go on about, who will pay for it, they'll nick our jobs, they'll take our housing, they could be hiding terrorists, they won't integrate with our culture (that's a classic one, I'd love to know what some on here class as culture!).

But be honest, you just don't want to help, you don't want your standard of living compromised in any way.

You don't like to admit it because that makes you look a selfish ****.

Well fortunately not all people think that way, fortunately the British Public do have a wide range of opinions and hopefully enough feel

empathetic enough for us as a people to help.

Knock yourselves out on here slagging off my 'Loony Left' views, if that helps you get over yourself fair enough, some of you need all the help you can get in squaring the circle.

To be fair, you've openly admitted to being "very wealthy" in this thread, it's unlikely immigration has affected your village or suburban life as much as it has for others posting on this thread, nor will your life be impacted if we take many more immigrants and refugees, but make no mistake it will affect some people and those people are entitled to their concerns.

Being a lefty isn't just about verbalising your support for the most disadvantaged people possible. We can all do that and no doubt feel great about ourselves. Being a lefty is also about finding a solution that's in the best interests possible of everyone affected and that includes the British citizens living in those areas where new immigrants will be moved.

[Weller in Tights]

Wow, I didn't say I was very wealthy!

I 'feel' relatively wealthy compared to many, as I have earnt a little above the national average.

I am now retired from my main job and am now with my pension and part-time job, earning just below the national average.

Therefore I admit my life is 'relatively' comfortable say compared to someone on the minimum wage.

I would fully support a system of taxation that would take money off me if it were to support others. I believe the Welfare State is there to support people, those that can afford to pay it should.

My dad was a conservative supporter (shock horror) one of those 'one nation' Tories. The one thing he would say politically that I agreed with was that:

"you should never moan about paying tax, if you pay more tax it's because you're earning more and the tax you pay goes to help others"

[Webbo]

Knock yourselves out on here slagging off my 'Loony Left' views, if that helps you get over yourself fair enough, some of you need all the help you can get in squaring the circle.

Nobody was knocking your views, just your hysterical over reaction to anyone who dared to have a different view to yourself.

[surrifox]

Wow, I didn't say I was very wealthy!

I 'feel' relatively wealthy compared to many, as I have earnt a little above the national average.

I am now retired from my main job and am now with my pension and part-time job, earning just below the national average.

Therefore I admit my life is 'relatively' comfortable say compared to someone on the minimum wage.

I would fully support a system of taxation that would take money off me if it were to support others. I believe the Welfare State is there to support people, those that can afford to pay it should.

My dad was a conservative supporter (shock horror) one of those 'one nation' Tories. The one thing he would say politically that I agreed with was that:

"you should never moan about paying tax, if you pay more tax it's because you're earning more and the tax you pay goes to help others"

give it a  rest mate

[Lineker's Left Foot]

Pride? It's nothing to do with pride. Its a measly £500 that isn't being funded for by the NHS. The equipment- can't he bothered researching what it is- has saved lives. It's about getting our own house in order before we can contemplate taking more people in.

If we don't have the resources to help (or to even get by with our own citizens) in the NHS and Education (and arguably homes) how can we put further strain on the above?

I have plenty of empathy but as with anything political the things I'm most concerned about are the things that have a direct effect on me, my family and my friends. I have no shame in admitting that.

Well said mate. It seems as though we're always helping others but not our own. I do feel for these people, but we need to destroy the root of e problem I.e. IS. Constantly taking in refugees is only a short term measure and I am more concerned about myself and my family rather than them. Maybe my children will struggle for jobs in the future in a society where the NHS is crippled - this country is their birthright and I would like to think that they would be given priority over immigrants in this country if they birth had the same skills/experience.

Because of his influx maybe I will never retire, but the politicians who have drawn up these proposals for immigration will. Unfortunately we don't live in a Utopia and as said before, the Middle East rich countries should be taking more in than us,

[DEMANN]

No one is preaching to you, either you have empathy (hence you are a human being) or you have no empathy (in which case you are a slug - sorry slugs).

Demann, clearly you have set out your stall, let's hope you and your family never need the empathy of others.

Of course you will say they won't, because you work so hard to be a great provider.

Be careful, pride before a fall can look very foolish.

Don't assume anything about me...You know nothing about my background or family...I am just being honest about my views on this thread...I am not proud of myself in the slightest...It's just how I feel.

Whatever you think, I am clearly a human being...You are one too, albeit a wet, pathetic, bleating one, from what I'm reading on here.

[Captain...]

Well said mate. It seems as though we're always helping others but not our own. I do feel for these people, but we need to destroy the root of e problem I.e. IS. Constantly taking in refugees is only a short term measure and I am more concerned about myself and my family rather than them. Maybe my children will struggle for jobs in the future in a society where the NHS is crippled - this country is their birthright and I would like to think that they would be given priority over immigrants in this country if they birth had the same skills/experience.

Because of his influx maybe I will never retire, but the politicians who have drawn up these proposals for immigration will. Unfortunately we don't live in a Utopia and as said before, the Middle East rich countries should be taking more in than us,

Why is just this country their birthright? Why not the whole world? Do our kids not deserve to grow up in a world free from tyranny and terror? One where as a collective we help all citizens of this world not just the ones who happen to have been born within the same artificial boundaries as you?

We should do what we can when we can, not because one day we might need help, but because the world is getting smaller borders are meaning less and less and these crises do not just affect one nation, everything is connected, if we don't help these refugees the burden might fall elsewhere. Greece and Italy are 2 nations which have had some serious economic problems and are the closest escape routes for many fleeing refugees. Failure to help and spread the burden could result in serious destabilisation of 2 very important economies to us, which could in turn bring down the European Union and take us with it.

[Weller in Tights]

Don't assume anything about me...You know nothing about my background or family...I am just being honest about my views on this thread...I am not proud of myself in the slightest...It's just how I feel.

Whatever you think, I am clearly a human being...You are one too, albeit a wet, pathetic, bleating one, from what I'm reading on here.

I am assuming nothing, you clearly and 'honestly' stated your views.

You often see that don't you, people using the "I'm just being honest" or "everyone's entitled to their opinion", those statements often follow someone putting across a gross stand point.

Why am I 'wet' ? Seriously, I've never understood that insult.

Pathetic? to coin your phrase, "don't assume anything about me"

Bleating? Why? Because I disagree with you and wasn't impressed by your 'honesty'.

Oh, I suppose I better say it as well... Of course it's 'only my opinion'

[Weller in Tights]

Shit, Hungary have just scored