Migrants - What's the answer?

[Thracian]

WORSE THAN IT IS???

 

These innocent people are locked up and are not called by name, in true Nazi germany style, they are called by a number allocated to them by the Government. 

 

To be honest, i dont think i could make it sound any worse than it is. More than 90% of people seeking asylum in Australia have been found to be legitimate refugees. So, the vast majority of people (INCLUDING CHILDREN) being held in these prisons are innocent people who have done nothing wrong and yet they are kept locked up because redneck Ozzies have become fixated by the crap spouted by politicians (both Labor and Liberal (conservatives)) that we are being overrun.

 

In these prisons.....

innocent men have been murdered by guards (Reza Berati),

women have been raped and ....

children have been abused

all by by guards and people employed by the Australian government.

 

Add to that, the oz government has made it illegal for doctors to tell the media about the abuses occurring in detention. DOCTORS FFS.. no mandatory reporting there.

 

I havent even started on the mental injuries and self abuse being suffered by those innocents in detention, or the BILLIONS of $ being spent to lock them up, or those that are being SENT BACK to war zones like Iraq and Syria. 

 

People who have escaped the threat of murder due to their religious or political beliefs that are being flown back by Australia to be handed over to the people they were trying to escape.

 

Worse than it is????????........... Murder...children sexually abused..., people suicide...... women raped... mental illness at the highest level.

 

and all because selfish people cant share.

 

 

 

Talk about selective understanding .....

 

You actually condemn your own argument with the mention of 90%. That means 10% are not legitimate refugees and that represents a level of risk no sensible person would ever contemplate.

 

If the 10% represented a deadly disease few would ever contemplate such a risk except those hellbent on destroying our community and I don't see that if 10% represent a serious risk to the socio/political situation in this country I don't see it as any less a problem as is so soundly demonstrated right across the Middle East and in many parts of Africa as well as elsewhere.

 

Your arguments are well meaning I'm sure and we've most of us had thoughts about elevating the instincts of man.

 

But love is not more powerful than hate, importing trouble is a provenly serious misjudgement, and people have so many, sometimes evil flaws, that if there really is a God he'd quickly recall mankind and work on building a whole new template.

[Thracian]

What proportion of second or third generation migrants have assimilated very nicely into Britain vs the proportion who haven't I wonder.  Got to be a much much higher proportion.

 

 

It would be very interesting to answer that question honestly. Especially in relation to integrating as opposed to occupying their own enclave, adapting it to the world around them and slowly increasng its influence. 

[Merging Cultures]

What proportion of second or third generation migrants have assimilated very nicely into Britain vs the proportion who haven't I wonder. Got to be a much much higher proportion.

I believe the Ugandan/Indian migrants are one of the richest ethnic groupings in the UK.

I also believe on the whole second/third generation migrants do integrate quite well. It's not easy moving to a new country. I've done it 5 times now! And the white migrants (expats!) don't tend to integrate very well!! We tend to get together in our (very nice and expensive) ghettos.

[Captain...]

Talk about selective understanding .....

You actually condemn your own argument with the mention of 90%. That means 10% are not legitimate refugees and that represents a level of risk no sensible person would ever contemplate.

If the 10% represented a deadly disease few would ever contemplate such a risk except those hellbent on destroying our community and I don't see that if 10% represent a serious risk to the socio/political situation in this country I don't see it as any less a problem as is so soundly demonstrated right across the Middle East and in many parts of Africa as well as elsewhere.

Your arguments are well meaning I'm sure and we've most of us had thoughts about elevating the instincts of man.

But love is not more powerful than hate, importing trouble is a provenly serious misjudgement, and people have so many, sometimes evil flaws, that if there really is a God he'd quickly recall mankind and work on building a whole new template.

The 10% who may not have a legitimate claim for asylum are still human beings. Even if that 10% were terrorists as opposed to the more likely situation they are people looking to improve their lives, what % would make it not ok to subject genuine asylum seekers to physical, mental and sexual abuse?

[ozleicester]

Talk about selective understanding .....

 

You actually condemn your own argument with the mention of 90%. That means 10% are not legitimate refugees and that represents a level of risk no sensible person would ever contemplate.

 

If the 10% represented a deadly disease few would ever contemplate such a risk except those hellbent on destroying our community and I don't see that if 10% represent a serious risk to the socio/political situation in this country I don't see it as any less a problem as is so soundly demonstrated right across the Middle East and in many parts of Africa as well as elsewhere.

 

Your arguments are well meaning I'm sure and we've most of us had thoughts about elevating the instincts of man.

 

But love is not more powerful than hate, importing trouble is a provenly serious misjudgement, and people have so many, sometimes evil flaws, that if there really is a God he'd quickly recall mankind and work on building a whole new template.

 

I dont think you understand, if they dont meet the refugee criteria, they wont be settled. so your fears should now be eased can the "non diseased" ones come in?

 

If 10% had this "disease" you mentioned then they would be segregated from the healthy population and then there is no threat. It is interesting that you use words like disease when referring to people who are running for their lives, still a swarm of diseased migrants is quite threatening isnt it.

 

Even if this (disease) is the case, and they should be segregated, surely even you are not supportive of locking up innocent men women and children indefinitely?

 

Surely any person understands that reducing a human being to nothing more than a number is cruel?

 

Surely even the most selfish and scared person can understand that locking children in prison and allowing them to be abused when they have done NOTHING WRONG is barbaric?

 

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/09/30/nauru-asylum-seekers-reportedly-sewing-lips-shut-over-visa-denial

[Lionator]

I dont think allowing 100,000 immigrants from Syria, with a possiblitity that a certain percentage are ISIS soldiers, is the right answer.   whichever way u look at it, its frightening to think what this country will be like when my daughters grow up in ten years or so

 

The xenophobes coming out with this nonsense tend to forget we have an exceptional intelligence service. 

[Merging Cultures]

I dont think you understand, if they dont meet the refugee criteria, they wont be settled. so your fears should now be eased can the "non diseased" ones come in?

 

If 10% had this "disease" you mentioned then they would be segregated from the healthy population and then there is no threat. It is interesting that you use words like disease when referring to people who are running for their lives, still a swarm of diseased migrants is quite threatening isnt it.

 

Even if this (disease) is the case, and they should be segregated, surely even you are not supportive of locking up innocent men women and children indefinitely?

 

Surely any person understands that reducing a human being to nothing more than a number is cruel?

 

Surely even the most selfish and scared person can understand that locking children in prison and allowing them to be abused when they have done NOTHING WRONG is barbaric?

 

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/09/30/nauru-asylum-seekers-reportedly-sewing-lips-shut-over-visa-denial

 

I agree, talking about people as a disease is disgusting (see the post about public health concerns because refugees in camps might be mixed with Africans!).

 

Australia's camps definitely need to be improved, but it doesn't strike me as a terrible policy. From what I've read, the number of boats arriving in Australia with illegal migrants, who want to claim asylum has decreased significantly. How many are being towed to the processing centres now? I can imagine the flow has decreased. Is that because the number of people needing asylum has decreased? Probably not, but they are probably going to countries that are closer for processing, or trying to get to Europe. If they are trying to get to Europe, then it is just because of the benefits. As I've said before, I'd probably do the same in their position. But that doesn't mean countries shouldn't try to protect their borders first.

[DennisNedry]

The xenophobes coming out with this nonsense tend to forget we have an exceptional intelligence service. 

 

How can they properly check thousands of people coming in a short space of time?

[Captain...]

How can they properly check thousands of people coming in a short space of time?

 

34.4million people visited our country last year, over 500,000 moved here to live. 

 

I think we can cope with a few extra thousands, Cameron has pledged 20,000 over 5 years which is 4,000 a year, less than 1% of the number of migrants who came here last year, I think we can cope with checking them.

[alden014]

We need to accept that borders are an imagined line, people are real and need to be saved. the "developed" world needs to agree an equal distribution and start saving these people.

[Lionator]

How can they properly check thousands of people coming in a short space of time?

 

The powers that be know where the overwhelming majority of people who could cause to harm to us are. 

[Merging Cultures]

The authorities will know the main leaders, but they won't know the vast majority of 'soldiers' that will have zero documentation, no bank accounts, no Facebook, maybe a SIM card for a basic Nokia phone.

It will be very hard to identify someone from ISIS if they tried to enter the UK.

Apparently there is a developing business in Turkey for fake Syrian passports.

[Rincewind]

I think they are more likely to be anti-ISIS for putting them in the position they are are in. Why move to counties  that they believe are against them?

[Guest]

I think they are more likely to be anti-ISIS for putting them in the position they are are in. Why move to counties  that they believe are against them?

 

I admire your optimism and on the whole I guess we'd all like to believe that

[Carl the Llama]

I think he is saying they guy who cuts his hair was on holiday back home in the country from which he sought asylum in the UK.

You mean visiting the family members who for whatever reason still live in that country?

[Guest]

What proportion of second or third generation migrants have assimilated very nicely into Britain vs the proportion who haven't I wonder.  Got to be a much much higher proportion.

Using Leicester as an example I'd say that most children let alone children of children have assimilated very well.

[Guest]

I believe the Ugandan/Indian migrants are one of the richest ethnic groupings in the UK.

I also believe on the whole second/third generation migrants do integrate quite well. It's not easy moving to a new country. I've done it 5 times now! And the white migrants (expats!) don't tend to integrate very well!! We tend to get together in our (very nice and expensive) ghettos.

 

This is so true. Obviously I'm a migrant/immigrant here in France. As English as they come. Most of the Brits who come over here want to but can't integrate and end up in their own Brit enclave - not me, I might add - I don't like anyone and have no friends. However the kids of these people who have gone through the education system have a foot in both worlds and integrate in both very well. If the children of these children stay in the country they are mostly fully integrated with a cultural knowledge of another country/system

[Guest]

How can they properly check thousands of people coming in a short space of time?

 

How can they not?

[Buce]

This is so true. Obviously I'm a migrant/immigrant here in France. As English as they come. Most of the Brits who come over here want to but can't integrate and end up in their own Brit enclave - not me, I might add - I don't like anyone and have no friends. However the kids of these people who have gone through the education system have a foot in both worlds and integrate in both very well. If the children of these children stay in the country they are mostly fully integrated with a cultural knowledge of another country/system

Are you Moosebreath?

[Guest]

The authorities will know the main leaders, but they won't know the vast majority of 'soldiers' that will have zero documentation, no bank accounts, no Facebook, maybe a SIM card for a basic Nokia phone.

It will be very hard to identify someone from ISIS if they tried to enter the UK.

Apparently there is a developing business in Turkey for fake Syrian passports.

 

But they could just come in as tourists of course.

[davieG]

Terror arrests reach 'record high', Home Office figures show

• 3 hours ago
•  
• From the sectionUK

Image copyrightAFP Getty

The number of people arrested for terrorism-related offences has reached record levels, new figures reveal.

In the year to March, 299 terror suspects were detained - an increase of 31% on the previous year - of which 100 were charged with a terror-related offence, Home Office figures show.

It is the highest number since officials began collecting data in September 2001.

The previous peak of 284 occurred in 2005, the year of the 7 July attacks.

Among those arrested, there was a "marked increase" in the number who considered themselves to be of British or British dual nationality, officials said.

In 2014/15, they accounted for more than three-quarters of those detained for terrorism-related offences, compared with 52% in the year to March 2011.

'Steady rise'

The number of 18 to 20-year-olds arrested more than doubled on the previous year from 20 to 43, the report found.

The figures show a spike in the last three months of last year, when there were 106 arrests.

The rate fell from January to March this year, with 67 terror-related arrests - but this was still higher than the same period in the previous two years.

A Home Office statistical bulletin setting out the data said that there had been fluctuations in the number of terrorism-related arrests since the attacks on the World Trade Centre on 11 September 2001.

There were spikes in the number of arrests after 9/11, around the time of the beginning of the US-led invasion of Afghanistan, and immediately after the 7 July London bombings.

"Soon after this, the number of terrorism-related arrests declined, until late 2010," it said.

"In late 2010, the Arab Springs began, and throughout the years since the initial uprising, the number of terrorism-related arrests in Great Britain has seen a steady rise."

Female suspects

In 2014/15, there were 35 women arrested on terror-related offences; also a record figure and more than treble the number five years ago. Eight of those arrested were under 18.

There has also been a significant increase in the number of suspects arrested who were aged 30 and over, with a rise of more than a third compared to the previous year.

Of the 299 people arrested in 2014/15, fewer than half - or 100 - were ultimately charged with terror-related offences.

The Home Office said this was the highest proportion since records started, "suggesting that police were more frequently able to find evidence to support the link to terrorism following a terrorism-related arrest".

The total number of terror arrests in the UK since recording began 14 years ago is just under 3,000.

Last month Mark Rowley, the country's leading counter-terrorism officer, disclosed that suspects are now being held at a rate of more than one a day.

 

[Merging Cultures]

But they could just come in as tourists of course.

 

Exactly my point.

[Babylon]

How can they not?

 

How exactly do you check them?

 

Border Control "Are you a terrorist?"

Migrant "No"

 

Border Control "Are you sure?"

Migrant "Yes"

 

That's about the sum of it.

[Babylon]

We need to accept that borders are an imagined line, people are real and need to be saved.

Saved from what? Many of them fled from the war months if not years ago and have been living in another country.

 

Whilst your imagined lines speech is nice in principle, the whole world cannot live in a handful of countries. A worldwide open border system would lead to utter chaos.

[Guest]

Exactly my point.

 

I know.

 

I re-inforced it.