The Politics Thread

[The Doctor]

Combining exercise with getting to work when they don't have much time?

 

Well obviously, but judging by the last few pages I thought this was the thread for making ridiculous, half-way WUM comments? 

[bovril]

Well obviously, but judging by the last few pages I thought this was the thread for making ridiculous, half-way WUM comments? 

 

I loled

[Stadt]

The príck in the Tesco advert

The príck in the Tesco advert

[Guest]

is this the politics thread?

[Dr The Singh]

is this the politics thread?

You need to ask that in the questions thread

[Strokes]

You need to ask that in the questions thread

[Guest]

You need to ask that in the questions thread

 

Thanks will do. But I'm pretty sure they'll say no

[Countryfox]

is this the politics thread?

 

Still bugger off ....    

[MooseBreath]

So the climate conference has reached an agreement, the world leaders have decided they do indeed have the power of Gods and can manipulate temperatures however they like, and have decided they'd only like temperatures to rise by 2C, please, as if they're ordering a plate of food. Imagine how much money was wasted on this guff. It's basically corruption.

[Rincewind]

So the climate conference has reached an agreement, the world leaders have decided they do indeed have the power of Gods and can manipulate temperatures however they like, and have decided they'd only like temperatures to rise by 2C, please, as if they're ordering a plate of food. Imagine how much money was wasted on this guff. It's basically corruption.

That's politicians for ya.

[Guest]

Still bugger off ....    

 

:xmaswink:

[Richard]

So the climate conference has reached an agreement, the world leaders have decided they do indeed have the power of Gods and can manipulate temperatures however they like, and have decided they'd only like temperatures to rise by 2C, please, as if they're ordering a plate of food. Imagine how much money was wasted on this guff. It's basically corruption.

So what's the alternative? What until climate change has occurred and try and adapt to it? Just leave it to 'technological progress' to solve humanity's problems?

[Strokes]

So what's the alternative? What until climate change has occurred and try and adapt to it? Just leave it to 'technological progress' to solve humanity's problems?

Or just accept what will be will be, scientist haven't got a lot right so far in this area have they?

[MooseBreath]

So what's the alternative? What until climate change has occurred and try and adapt to it? Just leave it to 'technological progress' to solve humanity's problems?

We can't control the climate. We don't even have particularly full or accurate records of what the climate is doing never the ability to make it do what we want it to. The alternative to spending a boat load of money on coming up with some half arsed emissions targets that may or may not influence the climate in some way or another is spend the money on something a bit more useful. Like giving the Queen a new perm and some hair extensions. Humanity would benefit a lot more from a fresh looking Queen than it will from that sham of a conference.

[Rincewind]

Not sure if spending the money instead is the best example but a fair point anyway.

[yorkie1999]

The Gods have spoken,  2 degrees it is then. Better to celebrate now though than in 20 years time when the fruits of their labours are fulfilled. Wonder if China will join in the party as well.

[leicsmac]

Or just accept what will be will be, scientist haven't got a lot right so far in this area have they?

 

And if "what will be will be" is the downfall of civilisation or even the extinction of humanity due to a change we can't adapt to?

 

As much as folk are right in that we can't necessarily predict what the climate of this planet is going to do next, that doesn't mean we need to be hands-off in coming up with ideas to reduce pollution and dependence on fossil fuels as a form of energy generation.

 

The latter one of those things is the biggie - the true crisis facing us later this century probably isn't going to be that the climate will change in a way we can't deal with, but that energy demand is going to vastly outstrip supply (think about 1.3 billion Chinese and 1.1 billion Indians all wanting the same energy demands as Americans), and we'll face the choice of vast numbers of new fossil fuel stations (with all the pollution and short shelf life that entails - if there's sufficient resources), resource depletion and the inevitable wars that will result to control what little is left (if there's not sufficient resources), or finding a new source of energy that can do the job, be available to everyone and not have powerful countries and business interests controlling the tap.

 

And it's a much better idea to start thinking about a solution (and actually looking to apply) on a wide scale now, rather than when the situation is worse.

[yorkie1999]

And if "what will be will be" is the downfall of civilisation or even the extinction of humanity due to a change we can't adapt to?

 

As much as folk are right in that we can't necessarily predict what the climate of this planet is going to do next, that doesn't mean we need to be hands-off in coming up with ideas to reduce pollution and dependence on fossil fuels as a form of energy generation.

 

The latter one of those things is the biggie - the true crisis facing us later this century probably isn't going to be that the climate will change in a way we can't deal with, but that energy demand is going to vastly outstrip supply (think about 1.3 billion Chinese and 1.1 billion Indians all wanting the same energy demands as Americans), and we'll face the choice of vast numbers of new fossil fuel stations (with all the pollution and short shelf life that entails - if there's sufficient resources), resource depletion and the inevitable wars that will result to control what little is left (if there's not sufficient resources), or finding a new source of energy that can do the job, be available to everyone and not have powerful countries and business interests controlling the tap.

 

And it's a much better idea to start thinking about a solution (and actually looking to apply) on a wide scale now, rather than when the situation is worse.

But there is a source of reliable energy that will fulfill our needs, but nobody wants it because of the problems that go with it. 

[leicsmac]

But there is a source of reliable energy that will fulfill our needs, but nobody wants it because of the problems that go with it.

I agree, and also because it's a short step from refining uranium for use in fission products to being able to weaponise it, which loads that whole area of energy generation with its own unique political problems.

Fusion power, by contrast, would have no such problems.

In any case, alternatives need to be brought on stream or at least made ready, and soon.

[SMX11]

Climate science just stinks of political influence both in terms of funding and the urge of not debating the issue.

From what I gather the satellite data suggests that warming has remained pretty neutral since the el nino in 1998 despite the acceleration of CO2 emissions.

Should this not ring alarm bells with the current hypothosis?

We don't know enough about this subject to force countries to 'de-carbon', I suspect this has more to do with more political control of the economy than actual worries about the supposed negative effects of climate change.

[leicsmac]

Climate science just stinks of political influence both in terms of funding and the urge of not debating the issue.

From what I gather the satellite data suggests that warming has remained pretty neutral since the el nino in 1998 despite the acceleration of CO2 emissions.

Should this not ring alarm bells with the current hypothosis?

We don't know enough about this subject to force countries to 'de-carbon', I suspect this has more to do with more political control of the economy than actual worries about the supposed negative effects of climate change.

As has been said above, the visible pollution (not CO2) that results from fossil fuel burning and political concerns resulting from location and scarcity of resources should be enough for countries to want to look at alternative energy generation plans. Whether such activity is having much of an effect on climate long term shouldn't have to come into it.

I totally agree that the current situation is caused by wanting political control of the economy...but not in the way you are thinking of, I reckon. The fossil fuel industry is worth uncountable billions per year, and that buys a lot of influence to maintain the status quo.

[MooseBreath]

And if "what will be will be" is the downfall of civilisation or even the extinction of humanity due to a change we can't adapt to?

As much as folk are right in that we can't necessarily predict what the climate of this planet is going to do next, that doesn't mean we need to be hands-off in coming up with ideas to reduce pollution and dependence on fossil fuels as a form of energy generation.

The latter one of those things is the biggie - the true crisis facing us later this century probably isn't going to be that the climate will change in a way we can't deal with, but that energy demand is going to vastly outstrip supply (think about 1.3 billion Chinese and 1.1 billion Indians all wanting the same energy demands as Americans), and we'll face the choice of vast numbers of new fossil fuel stations (with all the pollution and short shelf life that entails - if there's sufficient resources), resource depletion and the inevitable wars that will result to control what little is left (if there's not sufficient resources), or finding a new source of energy that can do the job, be available to everyone and not have powerful countries and business interests controlling the tap.

And it's a much better idea to start thinking about a solution (and actually looking to apply) on a wide scale now, rather than when the situation is worse.

There's no chance we'll struggle for energy. Renewable technology is already in abundance and just needs to be built when it's needed. That's an issue that we'll rise to easily.

Influencing the climate is very different. We don't know how to do that and have shown no sign that we'll be able to do it at any point. Anything we do is pure guess work. For all we know reducing emissions might make our climate problems even worse.

The conclusion of this expensive conference is a sham, that's my complaint.

[leicsmac]

There's no chance we'll struggle for energy. Renewable technology is already in abundance and just needs to be built when it's needed. That's an issue that we'll rise to easily.

Influencing the climate is very different. We don't know how to do that and have shown no sign that we'll be able to do it at any point. Anything we do is pure guess work. For all we know reducing emissions might make our climate problems even worse.

The conclusion of this expensive conference is a sham, that's my complaint.

I'm not seeing the evidence of this new energy tech coming on stream in a big way, Moose - not when the Chinese are building new coal plants every other week. Perhaps I should be patient and it will happen in good time, though.

I do agree about the guesswork and idiocy surrounding this conference, mind you. My concerns regarding a less carbon based energy future are purely based on visible pollution caused by refining it and how resources are used as a political football.

[Thracian]

I'm not seeing the evidence of this new energy tech coming on stream in a big way, Moose - not when the Chinese are building new coal plants every other week. Perhaps I should be patient and it will happen in good time, though.

I do agree about the guesswork and idiocy surrounding this conference, mind you. My concerns regarding a less carbon based energy future are purely based on visible pollution caused by refining it and how resources are used as a political football.

 

I'm not seeing the evidence of this new energy tech coming on stream in a big way, Moose - not when the Chinese are building new coal plants every other week. Perhaps I should be patient and it will happen in good time, though.

I do agree about the guesswork and idiocy surrounding this conference, mind you. My concerns regarding a less carbon based energy future are purely based on visible pollution caused by refining it and how resources are used as a political football.

 

 

 

Moosebreath is right - there are so many companies moving apace in developing clean energy technologies now - be it electric, nitrogen or still other possibilities one of which was outlined only in the last few days.

 

Electric power points for vehicles are fast appearing all over the place and there's been massive promotion of solar panel installation for homes which is where many private vehicles could have their own permanent power source.  

[Strokes]

I'm not seeing the evidence of this new energy tech coming on stream in a big way, Moose - not when the Chinese are building new coal plants every other week. Perhaps I should be patient and it will happen in good time, though.

I do agree about the guesswork and idiocy surrounding this conference, mind you. My concerns regarding a less carbon based energy future are purely based on visible pollution caused by refining it and how resources are used as a political football.

The only reason we (this country) are showing signs of any care about the environment. Is that we are running out of natural resources and want to level the playing field. If we were in chinas or the russias position we would not give a hoot.