Drinkwater starts for England v Australia

[BlueSi13]

Really poor performance from DD tonight I thought.  Added to the fact he didn't really make an impact when he came on against Turkey will probably means he misses out.  100% a shame if so as we know what he's capable off at his best but lets be honest, if he didn't play for us I reckon most of us would leave him at home based on what we've seen of him at international level.

 

If he'd been picked a long time ago like he should have been that would have allowed him to settle into the swing of things and grow into the shirt, but it all appears too late for him this time round.  His time will come though.

 

As for the team performance tonight it was ghastly to watch at times.  Hodgson has a squad packed with potential (best it's been for a decade in my opinion) but he isn't half pissing them up the wall so far.  This team could honestly win the Euros or get bombed out in the group stage.  All the smart money will be on the latter based on recent performances (Germany game aside).

 

Also, Ross Barkley, what the **** is that guy in the squad for?  It's baffled me for a long time now.  What does he actually do?  What does he offer the team?  What is his best position?  What are his attributes?  Baffled.

[BlueSi13]

surely you don't rate Schmeichel over Drinkwater...

 

To be fair, nobody become champions of England without a top top quality goalkeeper. 

[Wolfox]

Ok... Watched it on catch up... Deliberately avoided any comment and not read another post...

Burn me down in flames.... But, I was on DD watch all night and he didn't do enough... I don't think he'll get picked.

If I were the England manager, I'd start him as I've watched him all season... On the basis of tonight, he's not on the plane...

Sad :-(

[Koke]

Probably why he changed his name before, annoyed too many people and decided he needed a fresh start. Going well...

Some people are unable to view things objectively and football tribalism takes over. If Mark Noble preformed like that he'd be slagged off on here even he's had a good season too.

I give my objective opinion on some of our players some people don't like it. Winning the Premier League doesn't make our players immune from objective assessments. Wes Brown have got 7 Premier League titles and and 2 Champions League trophies and have played over 300 times for Manchester United. And he has never been international quality.

[SpinneyHillRanger]

I think it's good he had a few training sessions with a FEW world class players in the England squad. Deep down Danny knows he can mix it with these lot so will do him the world of good going into the champions league.

I say it's much better woy doesn't pick him. He won't get many minutes anyway and will have no rest coming into the biggest and possibly busiest season in our history.

I say let the likes of Wiltshire, hendo and dier play every game in the euros... by the time Christmas comes most of them will be either carrying serious injuries as they seem to be made of glass or they will be seriously tired/overworked. Will be good to see Arsenal fade again while our players will be fresh for the fight.

Fukc woy

[The Doctor]

I got flamed on the last England match thread for suggesting Drinkwater isn't international class - and he proved it again for me tonight.

He seems capable of scrapping a ball back, then knocking it over the top. Doesn't seem to offer much else, and only works with Vardy.

Don't blame Roy's system - the abuse he gets on here is very un fair.

 

Except he's a class player, but playing shite tiki-taka and going for the most sterile of sterile possession games isn't going to suit a player who looks to split the defence and get them turned as quickly as possible.

 

You can say don't blame Woys system but why not? His system is absolute garbage. He plays an over the hill carthorse in Rooney, shoehorns him into the side with a 4-2-3-1 despite not having proper wingers in his squad, so forces good strikers out wide because they're quick and that's all you apparently need, he's happy to waste squad spots on overrated tripe that might possibly be fit for 10 minutes of the group stage in the likes of Henderson.

No doubt someone will bring up the 100% qualifying in a group containing San Marino, Lithuania and Doris the tea lady, but that'd be spectacularly missing the problem: which is that tournament football, when there's something on the line, you lot fold more than the origami world championships - because you're set up to not play to your own strengths and instead play as a second rate Spain hoping that it'll beat the top rate Spain. It's exactly the same as why Arsenal fail against Barcelona every season; because the cheap imitation will never outdo the real thing.

 

Let's be fair, he's got excellent vision and can pick a pass - his link-up with Vardy would work at any level, or indeed with any attack that isn't stuck to a five yard radius of movement: If you've made Ashley Williams look like a donkey in two games this season, he's not suddenly going to be resilient to the same thing because he's wearing red rather than white this time; the idea of international class is ridiculous - as if international football is somehow harder than the top end of the prem.

[chicagofox]

Who are the few world class players in the England squad?

I don't think Engkand have a single world class player. And neither do most other countries to be fair. World class players are very very rare.

[Bettsj2]

Drinkwater may well be capable of playing at international level but he's come to the table too late.

We know that Hodgson loves Wilshere so he'll go and Dier can play CB too so he'll go. As much as Drinky has been light years ahead of Henderson this season, Henderson looked like he wanted it more tonight and that might count for a lot in Hodgsons eyes.

Drinky was nowhere in the first half so Hodgson put him in the middle second half yet even in his preferred area of the pitch, didnt really shine for whatever reason.

I'd love for Leicester to have 2 players at the Euros but on the evidence of what i've seen, i'd be amazed if Hodgson takes Drinky.

[TJB-fox]

Makes me sad it's even up for debate, would be a real shame if Wilshere and Henderson go instead of him after the season all 3 have just had

[Leicesterpool]

I just find it funny how Woy is prepared to take an unfit Wiltshire than a fully fit Drinkwater. Just sums up what idiot can be at times! How's Wiltshire going to cope playing 90 minutes and potentially extra time and penalties. Wiltshire is a good player on a good day when he's fit but when isn't he's a waste of space, he looks disinterested. Mark Noble been outstanding for West Ham could have been considered.   

[Mampi]

Except he's a class player, but playing shite tiki-taka and going for the most sterile of sterile possession games isn't going to suit a player who looks to split the defence and get them turned as quickly as possible.

 

You can say don't blame Woys system but why not? His system is absolute garbage. He plays an over the hill carthorse in Rooney, shoehorns him into the side with a 4-2-3-1 despite not having proper wingers in his squad, so forces good strikers out wide because they're quick and that's all you apparently need, he's happy to waste squad spots on overrated tripe that might possibly be fit for 10 minutes of the group stage in the likes of Henderson.

No doubt someone will bring up the 100% qualifying in a group containing San Marino, Lithuania and Doris the tea lady, but that'd be spectacularly missing the problem: which is that tournament football, when there's something on the line, you lot fold more than the origami world championships - because you're set up to not play to your own strengths and instead play as a second rate Spain hoping that it'll beat the top rate Spain. It's exactly the same as why Arsenal fail against Barcelona every season; because the cheap imitation will never outdo the real thing.

 

Let's be fair, he's got excellent vision and can pick a pass - his link-up with Vardy would work at any level, or indeed with any attack that isn't stuck to a five yard radius of movement: If you've made Ashley Williams look like a donkey in two games this season, he's not suddenly going to be resilient to the same thing because he's wearing red rather than white this time; the idea of international class is ridiculous - as if international football is somehow harder than the top end of the prem.

 

Splitting the defence - whatever you want to call it - I call it 'balls over the top'. It only works against teams playing a high line and/or with a forward with extreme pace.

 

Roys system is more dynamic than people are prepared to look at. You see a team sheet and assume a solid formation is followed, when of course the formation completely changes depending on who has possession, who last made a sprint, where players currently are on the pitch, and a variety of other factors.. 4231 is basically 433 in attack or 424 if the 'number 10' gets forward, or 442 if the wide men stay out and the 9+10 go up top.. Hell, with Walker, Rose pushing up and Dier dropping back, it can often look like a 32131 - or other variations. It's very versatile.

 

Rooney I have wanted us to drop for a long time - but he looked sharp tonight, scored a good goal, and we don't know what kind of dressing room respect and leadership he commands. The likes of Alli might need a Rooney around him.

 

Henderson I don't rate. He is better than Drinkwater for passing ability, and can have a decent shot from time to time - but see him as no more than a bench warmer.

 

The first Euros Roy had no impact on, and the World Cup was a crap team with 0 expectations that got drawn an incredibly tough group. This is most likely Roys final tournament and is the one I shall judge him on. The players, expectations and draw suit getting out of the group stages this time...

 

I dont think England are a poor mans Spain, although I do see your point. I'm not sure I would like England to play to their natural strengths.. Lets stick Carrick in midfield and knock balls up to Crouch & Carroll with Vardy / Defoe running off them? We no longer even have the CB's to cope with that coming at us to be fair.

 

International football is different to the top of the Prem.. The Prem is the most competitive top league in Europe from top to bottom, but the quality at the top is poor compared to Italy Germany Spain. I think Drinkwater will be shown up next season in the Champions League should he find himself in a matchup with the likes of Pogba, Iniesta etc. Premier League (as Bale said) is about being physical. Strong, fast, enduring, determined.. International and high end European football is a lot more tactical. Knocking it over the top to Vardy is not a system that will carry anyone far - except in a Premier League where the BEST DEFENCE was of TOTTENHAM!!! I mean c'mon.. Spurs have a reputation for being awful at defending, have conceded more goals than any other team in the EPL history - and that is the best on offer last season.

 

i think Drinkwater, Sterling and Barkley should be dropped for the 23 man squad.

[Wolfox]

Some people are unable to view things objectively and football tribalism takes over. If Mark Noble preformed like that he'd be slagged off on here even he's had a good season too.

I give my objective opinion on some of our players some people don't like it. Winning the Premier League doesn't make our players immune from objective assessments. Wes Brown have got 7 Premier League titles and and 2 Champions League trophies and have played over 300 times for Manchester United. And he has never been international quality.

Brutal... I can't disagree though...

[crisp packet]

Ross Barkley and Sturbridge (not fit)

Drinky will go.... I feel?

[Leicesterpool]

Rooney was outstanding when he came and that's coming from me. However maybe this where we should at look him, as our super sub. I don't think he's got the pace to handle 90 minutes but give him a good half an hour he can do something. 

[inckley fox]

He played in an unfamiliar system, unfamiliar style and a line-up which will bear little resemblance to anything fielded in the European Championships. Very few were especially impressive, and if we approach games in that way in competitive games, we'll vanish without a trace. It's hard to pick out an individual and say he's nowhere near good enough. Why you'd centre on Drinkwater I have no idea, especially when we fielded guys who had mediocre seasons for mid-table and bottom end PL sides in there, whereas Danny was one of the stand-out players for the side that walked the top flight this season.

 

And, on top of that, there are plenty of people who believe that - if England are to seriously compete - they'll have to play in a relatively similar way to Leicester. In other words, quick end-to-end football, with high-pressing, and Vardy up front.

 

The opposition were weaker than pretty much anything he's come up against in the PL all season long. It's not as if he was shown up at a higher level than that to which he's accustomed.

 

If, from that, you determine that he's not international standard, then I can only imagine that you weren't especially optimistic about his chances in the first place. 

 

On a final note, if his whole game - as one poster suggested - depends on having Vardy up front, then what luck that our chances of winning anything in this tournament depend on the performances of, among a few others, Vardy. That alone should see him on the plane.

 

At times I really do wonder whether all of the guys on this forum are Leicester City forums. I've been sat all night with fans of other clubs and have just read out some of these comments, and it seems there are more critics of Drinkwater on here than anywhere else. Shame on you.

[foxes161]

how he look?

[Dodgy Bob]

Not a great performance from Drinky but it was another abject team performance from Roy Hodgson's "England" team. The diamond was, yet again, woeful. Hodgson is obviously committed to it to get his favourites in but any decent manager would have scrapped that formation already, even a crap manager would scrap it after tonight. Roy won't. Roy will stick to his guns. Those guns that have served him oh so incredibly well.

Though Dier looked like a rabbit in the headlights, totally out of his depth, Sterling did his best Levi Porter impression, Rashford was poor other than his scuffed goal, Lallana is just a total nothing player, likewise Henderson. The defence was shoddy again. I can't believe I'm saying this after how embarrassingly bad Hodgson's "England" were in 2014, but I think they've actually regressed. What a miserable shower of shit.

If it didn't mean so much to our boys I'd love for them to get very minor injuries and have to rule themselves out, then I could just not bother watching England at all. This is first tournament in my life I actually really want England just to lose, badly, get it over with, quick and clean, get Hodgson out and a real manager in, and then start looking ahead to the world cup.

[inckley fox]

Splitting the defence - whatever you want to call it - I call it 'balls over the top'. It only works against teams playing a high line and/or with a forward with extreme pace.

 

Roys system is more dynamic than people are prepared to look at. You see a team sheet and assume a solid formation is followed, when of course the formation completely changes depending on who has possession, who last made a sprint, where players currently are on the pitch, and a variety of other factors.. 4231 is basically 433 in attack or 424 if the 'number 10' gets forward, or 442 if the wide men stay out and the 9+10 go up top.. Hell, with Walker, Rose pushing up and Dier dropping back, it can often look like a 32131 - or other variations. It's very versatile.

 

Rooney I have wanted us to drop for a long time - but he looked sharp tonight, scored a good goal, and we don't know what kind of dressing room respect and leadership he commands. The likes of Alli might need a Rooney around him.

 

Henderson I don't rate. He is better than Drinkwater for passing ability, and can have a decent shot from time to time - but see him as no more than a bench warmer.

 

The first Euros Roy had no impact on, and the World Cup was a crap team with 0 expectations that got drawn an incredibly tough group. This is most likely Roys final tournament and is the one I shall judge him on. The players, expectations and draw suit getting out of the group stages this time...

 

I dont think England are a poor mans Spain, although I do see your point. I'm not sure I would like England to play to their natural strengths.. Lets stick Carrick in midfield and knock balls up to Crouch & Carroll with Vardy / Defoe running off them? We no longer even have the CB's to cope with that coming at us to be fair.

 

International football is different to the top of the Prem.. The Prem is the most competitive top league in Europe from top to bottom, but the quality at the top is poor compared to Italy Germany Spain. I think Drinkwater will be shown up next season in the Champions League should he find himself in a matchup with the likes of Pogba, Iniesta etc. Premier League (as Bale said) is about being physical. Strong, fast, enduring, determined.. International and high end European football is a lot more tactical. Knocking it over the top to Vardy is not a system that will carry anyone far - except in a Premier League where the BEST DEFENCE was of TOTTENHAM!!! I mean c'mon.. Spurs have a reputation for being awful at defending, have conceded more goals than any other team in the EPL history - and that is the best on offer last season.

 

i think Drinkwater, Sterling and Barkley should be dropped for the 23 man squad.

 

Is any of this based on today's game? Because I can assure you that the SPL, FLC and Australian league players in Australia's team are a hell of a lot weaker in terms of opposition than what Drinkwater has excelled against all season.

 

As for the quality at the top of the PL being weak compared to Italy, Germany and Spain, and defences being better overseas - well, if you look at the price tags of EPL defender you'll see that English football has by far the most expensive and most international set of defenders anywhere in the world.

 

England had a side in the Champions' League semis this year, like Germany but unlike Italy, and it was eliminated because of its total ineptitude up front, as opposed to its frailties at the back. We have no idea how knocking the ball over the top to Vardy would work because it's literally never been tried in a single competitive tournament, ever. Although it has worked against many of the same individuals he'll be facing in the upcoming Championships. Again and again and again. So I genuinely have no idea how you're coming to any of your conclusions.

[theessexfox]

When's the squad announced?

[inckley fox]

Not a great performance from Drinky but it was another abject team performance from Roy Hodgson's "England" team. The diamond was, yet again, woeful. Hodgson is obviously committed to it to get his favourites in but any decent manager would have scrapped that formation already, even a crap manager would scrap it after tonight. Roy won't. Roy will stick to his guns. Those guns that have served him oh so incredibly well.

Though Dier looked like a rabbit in the headlights, totally out of his depth, Sterling did his best Levi Porter impression, Rashford was poor other than his scuffed goal, Lallana is just a total nothing player, likewise Henderson. The defence was shoddy again. I can't believe I'm saying this after how embarrassingly bad Hodgson's "England" were in 2014, but I think they've actually regressed. What a miserable shower of shit.

If it didn't mean so much to our boys I'd love for them to get very minor injuries and have to rule themselves out, then I could just not bother watching England at all. This is first tournament in my life I actually really want England just to lose, badly, get it over with, quick and clean, get Hodgson out and a real manager in, and then start looking ahead to the world cup.

 

I don't know. A front two of Kane and Vardy, and a diamond with Dier at the back, Rooney up top, Alli and Drinkwater in between, wouldn't be too disconcerting. Tonight we didn't see players of that calibre, and the shape of the side wasn't easy to pin down as a midfield diamond. It looked like more than a few players weren't sure where they were meant to be and, skimming through the newspaper write-ups now, it would appears that quite a few pundits were of the same opinion.

[Dan LCFC]

There's just no plan what so ever. We should've used the qualifiers to decide on our system and used these games to work on it. We're flicking between systems that aren't really doing a great deal for us and we're continuing to play players out of position.

 

I cannot suss what we're even trying to do. It's baffling.

 

Drinkwater sadly a disappointment. Deserves to be on the plane as it boils down to a lot more than one friendly but didn't do anything tonight to make himself an automatic pick, which is a shame.

[Oswinner]

Forster 6

Clyne 7

Stones 8

Smalling 7

Bertrand 6

Wilshere 5

Drinkwater 6

Henderson 7

Lallana 6

Sterling 7

Rashford 7

Rooney 7

Drinky was a 6. Him and wilshere should have swapped positions first half. He played ok 2nd half. Nothing too great but not many were and after his season and his other good game for England he deserves a place in this england squad. Rashford scores and gets all the plaudits but I didn't he think he played too well. Rooney looked out best forward player whilst Stones I'd give MoM. Assured performance from him and I don't really rate him that highly.

[Aus Fox]

25 players need to be cut down to 23. After Rashfords goal and Sturridge injury issues I think that's one decision made.

So that leaves one more player disappointed:

The goalkeepers, defenders and forwards are set so it's pretty clear one will go from the midfield.

The options

Townsend: do we need a winger with the formation we play.

Barkley: Rooney will play the only role that suits him, Lallana and Alli can also operate in his role to a higher level

Drinkwater: has he done enough? We all know his strengths and weaknesses.

Henderson/ Wilshire: firm Roy favourites and the only thing stopping them is their fitness.

Personally think Barkley will miss out as Townsend offers something different and always performs for England.

Though he may look at age and think Barkely will get more long term out of coming for the ride.

[NewEnglandFox]

When's the squad announced?

 

Monday is the Deadline. And Woy is expected to announce last minute.

[Guest Cujek]

Splitting the defence - whatever you want to call it - I call it 'balls over the top'. It only works against teams playing a high line and/or with a forward with extreme pace.

Roys system is more dynamic than people are prepared to look at. You see a team sheet and assume a solid formation is followed, when of course the formation completely changes depending on who has possession, who last made a sprint, where players currently are on the pitch, and a variety of other factors.. 4231 is basically 433 in attack or 424 if the 'number 10' gets forward, or 442 if the wide men stay out and the 9+10 go up top.. Hell, with Walker, Rose pushing up and Dier dropping back, it can often look like a 32131 - or other variations. It's very versatile.

Rooney I have wanted us to drop for a long time - but he looked sharp tonight, scored a good goal, and we don't know what kind of dressing room respect and leadership he commands. The likes of Alli might need a Rooney around him.

Henderson I don't rate. He is better than Drinkwater for passing ability, and can have a decent shot from time to time - but see him as no more than a bench warmer.

The first Euros Roy had no impact on, and the World Cup was a crap team with 0 expectations that got drawn an incredibly tough group. This is most likely Roys final tournament and is the one I shall judge him on. The players, expectations and draw suit getting out of the group stages this time...

I dont think England are a poor mans Spain, although I do see your point. I'm not sure I would like England to play to their natural strengths.. Lets stick Carrick in midfield and knock balls up to Crouch & Carroll with Vardy / Defoe running off them? We no longer even have the CB's to cope with that coming at us to be fair.

International football is different to the top of the Prem.. The Prem is the most competitive top league in Europe from top to bottom, but the quality at the top is poor compared to Italy Germany Spain. I think Drinkwater will be shown up next season in the Champions League should he find himself in a matchup with the likes of Pogba, Iniesta etc. Premier League (as Bale said) is about being physical. Strong, fast, enduring, determined.. International and high end European football is a lot more tactical. Knocking it over the top to Vardy is not a system that will carry anyone far - except in a Premier League where the BEST DEFENCE was of TOTTENHAM!!! I mean c'mon.. Spurs have a reputation for being awful at defending, have conceded more goals than any other team in the EPL history - and that is the best on offer last season.

i think Drinkwater, Sterling and Barkley should be dropped for the 23 man squad.

Fvck off Woy, shouldn't you be snuggled up with your coco? You over the hill poor excuse for a manager.

Really though, delusional don't even cover it, I think some where you even suggested diet could play centre back! Sure he can, just like Drinks can play in goal.

The big club mentallaity of England's selection policy hurts us every tournament and this time around will be no different, we will play shit, boring football as usual. We will get to max quater final, more likely 2nd rounder.

Can I just mention also, what a clueless bellend glen hoddle is also, it feels like my ears are being shit in when he talks, I wish he would Fvck off, I will watch the French streams as I do not want to catch aids listening to his drivel.