Babylon Posted 3 January 2017 Posted 3 January 2017 18 hours ago, Kitchandro said: He's pointless if he can't pass it forward and doesn't win many tackles. He's not got potential (in midfield anyway) so giving him time will only achieve so much (i.e. him being ok at times). Don't think I'm scapegoating either, the fact he wasn't our worst player today or in the last few games says more about other performances than it does about him; plus Albrighton, Drinkwater & Gray not starting today. King and Mahrez were hugely disappointing today because unlike the likes of Amartey and Musa who just aren't good enough, they both have the technical ability to affect matches, but didn't turn up at all. Ahhh the old "doesn't pass it forward nonsense". Do explain how he has as many assists as Drinkwater and has more key passes and created more chances than any of the others? He also has more forward passes than King and Mendy (harsh to be fair as he's not played much at all). Giving him time won't achieve anything? Yeah that's why reporters like Tanner and seemingly the vast majority on here think he's actually been getting better and growing. And is by some distance our youngest CM as well, with plenty of time on his side.
notnow john Posted 3 January 2017 Posted 3 January 2017 I am surprised you've dignified this thread with a response!
fleckneymike Posted 3 January 2017 Author Posted 3 January 2017 Is Ahmed Musa playing well? Does he currently look good value at £18m? Has his general standard of play: improved, remained consistent, deteriorated? Would Ahmed Musa 'add' anything to our current style of play? Does he appear positionally adaptable? Would you drop any of the current first XI in order to accommodate him into the side?
Nick Posted 3 January 2017 Posted 3 January 2017 26 minutes ago, Babylon said: Nobody thinks he's doing well, although currently none of them are doing particularly well. But there are ways to go about being critical of performance, whilst also understanding that he's new to the league, new to the country and playing in a team that can't string more than a few passes together. But you know, that's not the foxestalk way. You have to say he looks like a competition winner, or some other pathetic put down. It happened with Vardy and Drinkwater and almost every player we've signed in the last 5 years barring a couple. It's happened with Amartey, Mendy after about 45 minutes against Arsenal, Slimani, Okazaki was useless, Simpson was championship standard... you could go through most of them. As it is, the vast majority of them, when played in a system to get the best out of the them actually did well given time to settle and get used to their team mates and new surroundings. Amartey being a case in point, a young kid playing his first few games and gets ripped to shreds on here. Yet he's growing all the time to the point we'll probably miss having him around in January. You'd expect people to learn, but why bother when you can be the banter king and throw insults around about the players. Amen.
VLC86 Posted 3 January 2017 Posted 3 January 2017 26 minutes ago, Babylon said: Nobody thinks he's doing well, although currently none of them are doing particularly well. But there are ways to go about being critical of performance, whilst also understanding that he's new to the league, new to the country and playing in a team that can't string more than a few passes together. But you know, that's not the foxestalk way. You have to say he looks like a competition winner, or some other pathetic put down. It happened with Vardy and Drinkwater and almost every player we've signed in the last 5 years barring a couple. It's happened with Amartey, Mendy after about 45 minutes against Arsenal, Slimani, Okazaki was useless, Simpson was championship standard... you could go through most of them. As it is, the vast majority of them, when played in a system to get the best out of the them actually did well given time to settle and get used to their team mates and new surroundings. Amartey being a case in point, a young kid playing his first few games and gets ripped to shreds on here. Yet he's growing all the time to the point we'll probably miss having him around in January. You'd expect people to learn, but why bother when you can be the banter king and throw insults around about the players. Sorry babs I am too busy declaring the second coming of the messiah in the Ndidi thread to read this, when he turns out to be shit I will reply.
murphy Posted 3 January 2017 Posted 3 January 2017 7 hours ago, Manwell Pablo said: You are right as we are all human and football is a hard game to judge and predict, but I'd say I'm sure it's a lot easier to do to some posters (the ones that like to make Knee jerk OTT sweeping unknowledgeable statements on a very regular basis) than it is too others. He who is critical should perhaps be prepared to take criticism himself do you not think? As for saying what you see at the time there are numerous suggestions as to why Vardy was struggling in that thread and plenty of posters who believed he would come good......live by the sword die by the sword I am afraid. You want to put something on a public forum people have a right to pass critique on it just like if you are a professional footballer expect your performances to be judged. You decision to put it in the public arena for all to read not those reading it. I think you have missed my point. I think it is perfectly reasonable to criticise a player with international and champions league pedigree for his underwhelming start to his City career. If you want to take a different view and criticise mine, that's fine, that's debate. What I object to is the fact that anyone who dares to criticise a player is shot down because said player has not had enough 'time'. That just shuts down debate. How long is enough time anyway? Are we allowed to say that Benalouane has been a dud yet? Or do we have to give him more time? My own view is that Musa has been a disappointment so far. It doesn't mean that I am not hopeful that he won't become a decent player for us and I will give him praise if that happens. You can only go by what you see and so far I am seeing little in the way of technical ability.
crazyleicester Posted 3 January 2017 Posted 3 January 2017 Its funny reading threads like this. Some of the hate for our own players just cracks me up. The stupidity of some people is unreal. All I can think is if this dislike or almost hatred went from these types of sites to the stands then it cant be helpful. Those who go to games know that we are always about six foot by some **** who is hoping a player continues to perform poorly so he can be seen as "right" on his judgement. I sometimes wonder why people pay money to watch football and then spend half the game moaning instead of supporting and getting behind the lads.
NotTheMarketLeader Posted 3 January 2017 Posted 3 January 2017 23 hours ago, The whole world smiles said: Yes after those 20 minutes today and his 3 starts I think that's plenty of time to judge him and ridicule him. I remember people writing similar brain dead posts to this in Vardy and Drinkwater's first season here. Some people are too stubborn or too thick to learn I guess. No. He CANNOT control the ball. We've seen well enough of him to know that is the case.
murphy Posted 3 January 2017 Posted 3 January 2017 27 minutes ago, crazyleicester said: Its funny reading threads like this. Some of the hate for our own players just cracks me up. The stupidity of some people is unreal. All I can think is if this dislike or almost hatred went from these types of sites to the stands then it cant be helpful. Those who go to games know that we are always about six foot by some **** who is hoping a player continues to perform poorly so he can be seen as "right" on his judgement. I sometimes wonder why people pay money to watch football and then spend half the game moaning instead of supporting and getting behind the lads. You think that criticism is the same as hatred? And YOU call people stupid?
crazyleicester Posted 3 January 2017 Posted 3 January 2017 Just now, murphy said: You think that criticism is the same as hatred? And YOU call people stupid? If you actually bothered to read what I said you wouldnt be so confused. I said dislike and almost hatred. These forums give us an insight on how diverse people are even though they support the same team. I also put a link to forum moaners who bring that with them to the stadium. I have witnessed our own fans moaning at our own players after a few minutes and even moan pre-kick off (I bet ***** plays shite today). Maybe you dont hear that but thats probably because you are one of the morons who are doing it.
los dedos Posted 3 January 2017 Posted 3 January 2017 17 minutes ago, NotTheMarketLeader said: No. He CANNOT control the ball. We've seen well enough of him to know that is the case. Why don't we ask Steve Walsh why he Scouted a player for so long with no ball control.I'm sure CR and the board thought Fuch it let's blow 15 million on a player that CANNOT control the ball. Believe or not but some players improve all aspects of their game with game time and also been played in their favoured postion.
volpeazzurro Posted 3 January 2017 Posted 3 January 2017 3 hours ago, fleckneymike said: Is Ahmed Musa playing well? Does he currently look good value at £18m? Has his general standard of play: improved, remained consistent, deteriorated? Would Ahmed Musa 'add' anything to our current style of play? Does he appear positionally adaptable? Would you drop any of the current first XI in order to accommodate him into the side? No.
brookfox Posted 3 January 2017 Posted 3 January 2017 Wonder if Ndidi will help him settle and gain confidence. Assuming they know each other from international football plus a similar age. Plus if Musa is/was Nigeria captain it might motivate him to prove himself.
NotTheMarketLeader Posted 3 January 2017 Posted 3 January 2017 9 minutes ago, los dedos said: Why don't we ask Steve Walsh why he Scouted a player for so long with no ball control.I'm sure CR and the board thought Fuch it let's blow 15 million on a player that CANNOT control the ball. Believe or not but some players improve all aspects of their game with game time and also been playedin their favoured postion. Come off it mate. We have to now train him....to control the ball ..as you say after spending £16m. Thats laughable and if that's where we are with him, its shocking at the same time. It it does not matter if you stand on the 6yd line, the wing or in the ****ing centre circle none of those locations will prevent one from controlling the ball if capable, so you cannot use the 'being played out of position' line. Allowances for many things can be made, but not for lack of technique to this degree.
VLC86 Posted 3 January 2017 Posted 3 January 2017 1 hour ago, Renart said: Does he own a Blue Peter Badge? Yeah I heard he won one in 1972 when he was 10.
Izzy Posted 3 January 2017 Posted 3 January 2017 19 minutes ago, brookfox said: Wonder if Ndidi will help him settle and gain confidence. Assuming they know each other from international football plus a similar age. Plus if Musa is/was Nigeria captain it might motivate him to prove himself. Yeah, I'm kinda hoping Ndidi's arrival will bring out the best in Musa too. Similar to how Slimani has bought the best out in Mahrez so far this season
Guest Lako42 Posted 3 January 2017 Posted 3 January 2017 5 hours ago, Babylon said: Nobody thinks he's doing well, although currently none of them are doing particularly well. But there are ways to go about being critical of performance, whilst also understanding that he's new to the league, new to the country and playing in a team that can't string more than a few passes together. But you know, that's not the foxestalk way. You have to say he looks like a competition winner, or some other pathetic put down. It happened with Vardy and Drinkwater and almost every player we've signed in the last 5 years barring a couple. It's happened with Amartey, Mendy after about 45 minutes against Arsenal, Slimani, Okazaki was useless, Simpson was championship standard... you could go through most of them. As it is, the vast majority of them, when played in a system to get the best out of the them actually did well given time to settle and get used to their team mates and new surroundings. Amartey being a case in point, a young kid playing his first few games and gets ripped to shreds on here. Yet he's growing all the time to the point we'll probably miss having him around in January. You'd expect people to learn, but why bother when you can be the banter king and throw insults around about the players. Spot on, some people would do well to take a step back and gain some Patience and perspective.
NotTheMarketLeader Posted 3 January 2017 Posted 3 January 2017 5 hours ago, Babylon said: Ahhh the old "doesn't pass it forward nonsense". Do explain how he has as many assists as Drinkwater and has more key passes and created more chances than any of the others? He also has more forward passes than King and Mendy (harsh to be fair as he's not played much at all). Giving him time won't achieve anything? Yeah that's why reporters like Tanner and seemingly the vast majority on here think he's actually been getting better and growing. And is by some distance our youngest CM as well, with plenty of time on his side. May I ask.... What are these figures based on - this 'per 90 metrics'?
fuchsntf Posted 3 January 2017 Posted 3 January 2017 5 hours ago, fleckneymike said: Is Ahmed Musa playing well? Does he currently look good value at £18m? Has his general standard of play: improved, remained consistent, deteriorated? Would Ahmed Musa 'add' anything to our current style of play? Does he appear positionally adaptable? Would you drop any of the current first XI in order to accommodate him into the side? No, no, all 3, yes, yes, yes...
Babylon Posted 3 January 2017 Posted 3 January 2017 22 minutes ago, NotTheMarketLeader said: May I ask.... What are these figures based on - this 'per 90 metrics'? It's essentially their average per for every 90 minutes of game time they play. 22 minutes ago, NotTheMarketLeader said: May I ask.... What are these figures based on - this 'per 90 metrics'? Not every player plays the same amount of minutes. If say Drinkwater plays 3000 minutes and gets 4 assist, whilst King plays 1500 and gets 2 assists it's not a fair comparison to just say Drinkwater twice the amount of assists as it doesn't take into account game time. The reality is, per 90 minutes played they would actually have the same assist rate. It's a fairer way of comparing over just totals.
Babylon Posted 3 January 2017 Posted 3 January 2017 1 hour ago, NotTheMarketLeader said: No. He CANNOT control the ball. We've seen well enough of him to know that is the case. Do you remember how bad Vardy's control was when he first joined? It was awful and took some time for him to improve and look comfortable. He'll never have the best control, but it improved enough for him to play for England and smash in a loss of goals. You cannot just sit there after he's played so few minutes and make a finite judgement on his ability or lack of it.
The whole world smiles Posted 3 January 2017 Posted 3 January 2017 2 hours ago, NotTheMarketLeader said: No. He CANNOT control the ball. We've seen well enough of him to know that is the case. See what you are doing here is passing off opinion as fact. This is a classic example of unreasonable, over the top criticism of a player. Of course he can control a ball you raging numpty he has over 60 caps for a decent footballing nation like nigera, played in world cups and the champions league and won the Russian league 3 times. Maybe just maybe he is adjusting to the pace of the English game and getting used to having less time on the ball thus to an overly negative unenlightened fella such as yourself it seems he 'can't control the ball'.
Babylon Posted 3 January 2017 Posted 3 January 2017 3 hours ago, murphy said: I think you have missed my point. I think it is perfectly reasonable to criticise a player with international and champions league pedigree for his underwhelming start to his City career. If you want to take a different view and criticise mine, that's fine, that's debate. What I object to is the fact that anyone who dares to criticise a player is shot down because said player has not had enough 'time'. That just shuts down debate. How long is enough time anyway? Are we allowed to say that Benalouane has been a dud yet? Or do we have to give him more time? My own view is that Musa has been a disappointment so far. It doesn't mean that I am not hopeful that he won't become a decent player for us and I will give him praise if that happens. You can only go by what you see and so far I am seeing little in the way of technical ability. There is genuine fair criticism, then there is unfair, over the top and abusive criticism. Most people only have a problem with the latter, fair citisism passes 100's of times a day without comment on here. Stupid threads like this won't though, because it's tone was totally unnecessary. It's of no surprise though as it's the same group mostly.
STUHILL Posted 3 January 2017 Posted 3 January 2017 My issue with Musa, is I have no idea what position he plays or where he fits into the team. He doesn't seem to be a genuine winger, as he doesn't seem to cross the ball too well and he seems far too lightweight to be an effective striker. So we are kind of left with a player who is an attacking left sided forward, who probably is only really effective on the left side of a 4-3-3, which I believe has only been used once by Claudio in a season and a half here, and that was against Boro at the weekend and Musa didn't even play. I would love to know what exact position Claudio bought him in for. I would guess it was to cover for Vardy as a striker but maybe he quickly realised, he has the speed but not the strength or power to play as a no.9. I would actually like to see us switch to a 4-3-3 as I think it would get the best out of Mahrez too, especially if we have 2 DCM's doing much of the defensive work for the front 3 and would also hopefully see Musa show us what he can do in his best position. If we don't see a formation change, and stick with a 4-4-2, then I can't see Musa ever being successful here. Go 4-3-3 at Everton and give him 90minutes and lets see what he can do finally.
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