murphy Posted 3 January 2017 Posted 3 January 2017 2 hours ago, crazyleicester said: If you actually bothered to read what I said you wouldnt be so confused. I said dislike and almost hatred. These forums give us an insight on how diverse people are even though they support the same team. I also put a link to forum moaners who bring that with them to the stadium. I have witnessed our own fans moaning at our own players after a few minutes and even moan pre-kick off (I bet ***** plays shite today). Maybe you dont hear that but thats probably because you are one of the morons who are doing it. You said "Some of the hate for our own players just cracks me up" so perhaps you are a little confused yourself. Anyway, skipping over the silly abuse, I will say that never in nearly 40 years of supporting City have I abused one of our players or booed the team. You get behind the team on match day rain or shine. An internet forum on the other hand is the place to discuss, praise or criticise the team, players, tactics whatever. It's not the same thing as hatred or abuse and using this kind of language just stifles debate.
Vardinio'sCat Posted 4 January 2017 Posted 4 January 2017 Some good responses to this thread. FT is just like most of the internet, a mix of the ill-informed ignorance, bile and also some genuinely great stuff. The ratio varies massively depending on results, so I often stay away when the knives are out. I think we will know a lot more about Musa soon. AFCON is a big opportunity for a number of players.
Aus Fox Posted 4 January 2017 Posted 4 January 2017 was the competition who can rip Barcelona to shreds? Not a bad competition to win, and clearly is not shite.
Babylon Posted 4 January 2017 Posted 4 January 2017 10 hours ago, STUHILL said: My issue with Musa, is I have no idea what position he plays or where he fits into the team. He doesn't seem to be a genuine winger, as he doesn't seem to cross the ball too well and he seems far too lightweight to be an effective striker. So we are kind of left with a player who is an attacking left sided forward, who probably is only really effective on the left side of a 4-3-3, which I believe has only been used once by Claudio in a season and a half here, and that was against Boro at the weekend and Musa didn't even play. I would love to know what exact position Claudio bought him in for. I would guess it was to cover for Vardy as a striker but maybe he quickly realised, he has the speed but not the strength or power to play as a no.9. I would actually like to see us switch to a 4-3-3 as I think it would get the best out of Mahrez too, especially if we have 2 DCM's doing much of the defensive work for the front 3 and would also hopefully see Musa show us what he can do in his best position. If we don't see a formation change, and stick with a 4-4-2, then I can't see Musa ever being successful here. Go 4-3-3 at Everton and give him 90minutes and lets see what he can do finally. He was bought to supplement our counter attacking pace from either position. The biggest issue is as we've seen from Vardy, with other teams all sitting deeper than they used to, that extra pace has been negated. So he was signed for a system that doesn't currently work. I thought he looked decent when played on the left a couple of times. He created a number of chances against Hull, gave United problems in the charity shield, scored a couple worldy goals against Barca and has knocked in a couple this season already despite limited game time. He looks very much the player anyone who googled thought he might be.... Inconsistent. But I've not having that he's useless or a "competition winner". I've seen enough "moments" for want of a better word, to think that in the right system and given time he'll be absolutely fine. He'll frustrate and blow hot and cold, but so do all wingers. Albrighton got his first assist in a year the other day, Mahrez has less goals form open play than Musa in the league, despite playing three times the amount.
crazyleicester Posted 4 January 2017 Posted 4 January 2017 10 hours ago, murphy said: You said "Some of the hate for our own players just cracks me up" so perhaps you are a little confused yourself. Anyway, skipping over the silly abuse, I will say that never in nearly 40 years of supporting City have I abused one of our players or booed the team. You get behind the team on match day rain or shine. An internet forum on the other hand is the place to discuss, praise or criticise the team, players, tactics whatever. It's not the same thing as hatred or abuse and using this kind of language just stifles debate. Some people on the internet try to play clever and deflect from the subject or even someones post. You seem to be in those categories. Lets try to stick to the my point if possible. You tell me you have supported the team for 40 years and have never booed or abused a player. Great. I actually believe you. However, this isnt about you then. Its about the fans who feel the need to boo their own or have made up their minds on a player before a ball is even kicked they cant wait for them to mess up. Id be more interested in if you have heard people about you booing or attacking players because Im 100% you have. Those are the people I am directing this to. Why you have decided to defend the indefensible is beyond me and to attempt to turn it around on my words is even funnier. Trust me on this, I have stood and sat in a few parts of our two grounds over the years and at times I have turned around to tell a fellow fan to shut up when the over do it. Back on the OP opening up this thread. Is Musa a comp winner isnt funny and is an insult. The lad is a new player playing in a new country and has not had a proper run in the team. He showed us what he can do against Barca when played as the main striker and the commentators and some fans were raving about him then. Since he got into our first team squad he has played on the left, the Okazaki position behind the main striker and has been limited to cameo positions from the bench. We have seen him in glimpses look useful in that Martial/Rashford position on the left of a front 3 where he runs at the defenders with his pace and causing problems and its even led to goals. However, due to CR playing 2 strikers, we cant afford the luxury of 2 wingers (lets see Musa left and Mahrez right). It leaves us too short in midfield and we get overrun by the 451 brigade. Now how is that Musa`s fault? As for the link between forums and the stands, its huge IMO. Most of it is positive (ie creating atmosphere in the stadium, new songs etc) but the negative is when some spout negativity about a player in here some actually jump on the bandwaggon and believe it. All I am saying is that we should spend less time attacking our own as I cant speak lowly enough of those who attack our lads from the stands.
NotTheMarketLeader Posted 4 January 2017 Posted 4 January 2017 15 hours ago, The whole world smiles said: See what you are doing here is passing off opinion as fact. This is a classic example of unreasonable, over the top criticism of a player. Of course he can control a ball you raging numpty he has over 60 caps for a decent footballing nation like nigera, played in world cups and the champions league and won the Russian league 3 times. Maybe just maybe he is adjusting to the pace of the English game and getting used to having less time on the ball thus to an overly negative unenlightened fella such as yourself it seems he 'can't control the ball'. So even though we have seen his lack of ability we are to say he's performed really well and he looks like a skilful player. Contrary to your statement of me being unenlightened, I suggest despite the evidence we have seen it is you who remain the unenlightened one! 15 hours ago, Babylon said: It's essentially their average per for every 90 minutes of game time they play. Not every player plays the same amount of minutes. If say Drinkwater plays 3000 minutes and gets 4 assist, whilst King plays 1500 and gets 2 assists it's not a fair comparison to just say Drinkwater twice the amount of assists as it doesn't take into account game time. The reality is, per 90 minutes played they would actually have the same assist rate. It's a fairer way of comparing over just totals. Ok thanks
NotTheMarketLeader Posted 4 January 2017 Posted 4 January 2017 17 hours ago, Babylon said: Do you remember how bad Vardy's control was when he first joined? It was awful and took some time for him to improve and look comfortable. He'll never have the best control, but it improved enough for him to play for England and smash in a loss of goals. You cannot just sit there after he's played so few minutes and make a finite judgement on his ability or lack of it. I do remember Vardy. There is is a big difference however, in that Vardy had come from non league, so it was a massive jump in class, and he was not the best with the first touch I agree. Musa is an international footballer who has been in Champions League man! I maintain, what we have seen from him terms of basic technique is jaw droppingly bad considering nothing else. When we add to that his 'pedigree' and I don't see why one can't be critical of such performances.
Babylon Posted 4 January 2017 Posted 4 January 2017 23 minutes ago, NotTheMarketLeader said: I do remember Vardy. There is is a big difference however, in that Vardy had come from non league, so it was a massive jump in class, and he was not the best with the first touch I agree. Musa is an international footballer who has been in Champions League man! I maintain, what we have seen from him terms of basic technique is jaw droppingly bad considering nothing else. When we add to that his 'pedigree' and I don't see why one can't be critical of such performances. What league you come from is just part of it, but a step up is a step up and it can take time to get used to your new level. The prem is a step up to the level he played at regularly. There are plenty of other things that come into the equation also, from getting used to new formations, countries, team mates. If people struggle to settle to start with it can dent confidence, especially in a struggling team. Some players can try too hard, others can hide a bit because they are new. So many different things can figure into it, I've said it for years, I won't start making final judgements on people for a good 18 months. Nobody has said you can't be critical in the mean time. What people have an issue with is how people go about it and over the top stuff. Case in point the thread title and the OP. Back to Vardy, he worked at it and got there. No reason why Musa can't if he applies himself in a similar way.
The whole world smiles Posted 4 January 2017 Posted 4 January 2017 4 hours ago, NotTheMarketLeader said: So even though we have seen his lack of ability we are to say he's performed really well and he looks like a skilful player. Contrary to your statement of me being unenlightened, I suggest despite the evidence we have seen it is you who remain the unenlightened one! No of course I am not proposing that, you know full well the reason myself and other posters have taken issue with this thread is. 1. the mickytaking tone of the original post its not nice to see your own players mocked by your own fans (especially if you feel it is undeserved). 2. the initial lack of intelligent discussion. 3. he has been at the club long enough or played enough minutes to be written off by the likes of you. But don't take my word for it, after all what do I know about the game, I just like you am a knobhead with a computer. but please try and take Claudio's word for it here are a couple of articles in which King Claudio explains that it is taking Ahmed a while to adjust to the english game and the teams style. http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/why-musa-has-been-left-out/story-29774048-detail/story.html http://www.vanguardngr.com/2016/08/musa-needs-learn-leicesters-style-ranieri/
NotTheMarketLeader Posted 4 January 2017 Posted 4 January 2017 3 minutes ago, The whole world smiles said: No of course I am not proposing that, you know full well the reason myself and other posters have taken issue with this thread is. 1. the mickytaking tone of the original post its not nice to see your own players mocked by your own fans (especially if you feel it is undeserved). 2. the initial lack of intelligent discussion. 3. he has been at the club long enough or played enough minutes to be written off by the likes of you. But don't take my word for it, after all what do I know about the game, I just like you am a knobhead with a computer. but please try and take Claudio's word for it here are a couple of articles in which King Claudio explains that it is taking Ahmed a while to adjust to the english game and the teams style. http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/why-musa-has-been-left-out/story-29774048-detail/story.html http://www.vanguardngr.com/2016/08/musa-needs-learn-leicesters-style-ranieri/ I assure you I am not taking the mickey out of Musa. He seems a decent guy (not that that should relevant). Without wishing to prolong our tete a tete too much longer, I do understand that many matters come into play when a player moves to a different team, league, country etc. Again though, the thrust of my argument is that none of the above should mean a player should have no ability to control a football to the extent that has been the case in the time he has been with us.
los dedos Posted 4 January 2017 Posted 4 January 2017 2 minutes ago, NotTheMarketLeader said: I assure you I am not taking the mickey out of Musa. He seems a decent guy (not that that should relevant). Without wishing to prolong our tete a tete too much longer, I do understand that many matters come into play when a player moves to a different team, league, country etc. Again though, the thrust of my argument is that none of the above should mean a player should have no ability to control a football to the extent that has been the case in the time he has been with us. You keep saying he has no ability to control a ball.But have you noticed bar the odd moment Mahrez's control does'nt seem as good as last year.He's not got worse it's just that there are lots of factors that can make a player seem worse. One is time on the ball.The other can be presure to get the ball up the field when you're are seeing very little of it. No one is saying he has the control of Maradona but are you really still saying that that he has no control?When CSK,LCFC including Steve Walsh and CR as well as the Nigerian Fa must rate him and think he can at least control a football to some degree!
Babylon Posted 4 January 2017 Posted 4 January 2017 32 minutes ago, los dedos said: You keep saying he has no ability to control a ball.But have you noticed bar the odd moment Mahrez's control does'nt seem as good as last year.He's not got worse it's just that there are lots of factors that can make a player seem worse. One is time on the ball.The other can be presure to get the ball up the field when you're are seeing very little of it. No one is saying he has the control of Maradona but are you really still saying that that he has no control?When CSK,LCFC including Steve Walsh and CR as well as the Nigerian Fa must rate him and think he can at least control a football to some degree! It falls into the same category as the "Amartey never passes forward" rubbish, there is a foundation in there of a real point that could be made. Such as, quite a few times he's delayed a pass when it needed to go first time. A few times he's taken the simple option... but these things come with being a kid in a new league playing with new people, nerves, worry of losing your place etc. Being cautious can come about for a number of reasons. But he's no worse than King and when he has played it forwards he's actually had more influence in key passes and chances created than Drinkwater. So the dumbed down version of "he never passes forward" is actually toss. Ditto Musa, yeah his touch and decision making at times has left a lot to be desired. But then he's also served up chances, scored some very good goals and there have been plenty of occasions when his decision making and control have been fine. If they weren't he wouldn't have created or scored. He'll never be technically the best, but he was never signed for that. He was signed to be a Schlupp upgrade, if he got a run in the team he's make Schlupp goal record look woeful considering his game time. I'm sure we're all guilty of being rash and using 10 words to express what probably needs 50. But I think there is a line and the debate that's raging on here now shows it obviously got crossed for quite a few.
The whole world smiles Posted 4 January 2017 Posted 4 January 2017 1 hour ago, NotTheMarketLeader said: I assure you I am not taking the mickey out of Musa. He seems a decent guy (not that that should relevant). Without wishing to prolong our tete a tete too much longer, I do understand that many matters come into play when a player moves to a different team, league, country etc. Again though, the thrust of my argument is that none of the above should mean a player should have no ability to control a football to the extent that has been the case in the time he has been with us. Ok fair enough we shall agree to disagree and see what happens with the lad over the next year or so.
Manwell Pablo Posted 4 January 2017 Posted 4 January 2017 On 03/01/2017 at 19:04, murphy said: I think you have missed my point. I think it is perfectly reasonable to criticise a player with international and champions league pedigree for his underwhelming start to his City career. If you want to take a different view and criticise mine, that's fine, that's debate. What I object to is the fact that anyone who dares to criticise a player is shot down because said player has not had enough 'time'. That just shuts down debate. How long is enough time anyway? Are we allowed to say that Benalouane has been a dud yet? Or do we have to give him more time? My own view is that Musa has been a disappointment so far. It doesn't mean that I am not hopeful that he won't become a decent player for us and I will give him praise if that happens. You can only go by what you see and so far I am seeing little in the way of technical ability. Thats fair enough, but I think you miss my point. there are levels of criticism and if you've worded your original post in such a manner it won't come back on you. however when it comes to the kind of post as the one that was quoted which you originally took issue with, don't be upset if it comes back on you.
Sionnach gorm Posted 5 January 2017 Posted 5 January 2017 Oddly I was a skeptic about Musa when everyone was excited about him coming to Leicester City. But since then I've oddly changed my position on him. I think it is too early to tell yet. Agreed, he's not looking too good, but many players need a year to settle in. In his first year in Moscow he played 11 times and scored once. His second year he had the breakout. I think he'll do quite well given the chance.
Guest MattP Posted 5 January 2017 Posted 5 January 2017 The fee is the biggest problem for him at the minute, you expect a £1million striker from the non-league like Vardy to take time for to adjust, you don't expect that of players who cost £15million+ and are being paid very well. He might come good, I can't see it though, his biggest problem seems to be that a lot of the time he just simply can't control or kick the ball properly and that's a disaster in a league as quick and ferocious as this one.
sylofox Posted 5 January 2017 Posted 5 January 2017 On 02/01/2017 at 21:06, fleckneymike said: The more he plays, the more he looks like the lad at school who is playing because he turned up with his PE kit. Competition winner? Seems to me he came last ended up here and has to put up with shite like this. Really if this is what you get as a winner what's last place get. First prize hung drawn and quartered at Leicester. Feck that not a competition I want to win or even enter.
NotTheMarketLeader Posted 5 January 2017 Posted 5 January 2017 16 hours ago, los dedos said: You keep saying he has no ability to control a ball.But have you noticed bar the odd moment Mahrez's control does'nt seem as good as last year.He's not got worse it's just that there are lots of factors that can make a player seem worse. One is time on the ball.The other can be presure to get the ball up the field when you're are seeing very little of it. No one is saying he has the control of Maradona but are you really still saying that that he has no control?When CSK,LCFC including Steve Walsh and CR as well as the Nigerian Fa must rate him and think he can at least control a football to some degree! To answer you question - yes I am saying he has shown virtually no ability to control the ball while he has been in Britain. I had hardly heard of the bloke when we signed him so that is what I am using as my measure of said ability. The title on the thread asks a question, to which my answer is, yes he does - simply based on what he has produced for us. Im not entirely sure why folks on here are so outraged that I have come to that conclusion.
UpTheLeagueFox Posted 7 January 2017 Posted 7 January 2017 On 1/2/2017 at 21:06, fleckneymike said: The more he plays, the more he looks like the lad at school who is playing because he turned up with his PE kit. Bump
Webbo Posted 7 January 2017 Posted 7 January 2017 And that is why you should never start these threads.
bigDfox33 Posted 7 January 2017 Posted 7 January 2017 Always said I think he will come good, he needs to be played in the centre forward position not the left wing!
Carl the Llama Posted 7 January 2017 Posted 7 January 2017 To answer the thread title: Yes. And that competition is the FA cup.
EGBFitness Posted 7 January 2017 Posted 7 January 2017 On 02/01/2017 at 21:53, EGBFitness said: The lad is frustrating as hell! Im not sure if it's him being a poor player or what he is being told how to play. He doesn't run with the ball, he can't control it, he has no strength at all and any moment he has the ball under control he is looking to get rid of it as quickly as possible even if he is in a shooting range/area to run into. Maybe we are playing him out of position? I was confused and frustrated why we didn't play him up top on his own for the last 20 mins today. We was sitting deeper and deeper and whenever the ball was pumped up boro back line had no pressure on the ball and was allowed time to build play back up. Thought he could of played abit of a Vardy role on the last defender with the pace I thought he had Mines aswell quote myself he seems to offer a lot more playing central, today and Barca can be prime examples. Sounds like we set up exactly like we did against Boro sitting deep and waiting to break but today having Musa up top rather than out on the wing at RB position
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.