Derby Away Post Match Thread 2 - 2

[Thracian]

12 hours ago, Blue Ed said:

Watched it on iplayer today.

 

Whilst not a great performance I thought there were some positives. Before the game and following on from Southampton I thought Derby were favourites, with them challenging for a playoff place and unbeaten at home and us playing the way we are away. But I thought the longer the game wet on the more we bossed it.

 

I thought Albrighton (on his best side) and Shinji had a good game and shows how much we rely on Shinj to link the midfield and attack (I just wish he could keep on his feet more) Albrighton looked our sharpest player on the pitch and most confident I's be pleased when Slim is ready again because I think Vardy needs some time out. Drinkwater was a lot happier playing in the centre but playing with King means the midfield doesn't seem to have the same balance as if he was playing with someone like Ndidi.

 

 

Our midfield, with Drinky/N'Didi and Mendy,  didn't look "balanced" against Southampton - in fact it didn't "look" like much at all. 

[Col city fan]

4 minutes ago, Thracian said:

Our midfield, with Drinky/N'Didi and Mendy,  didn't look "balanced" against Southampton - in fact it didn't "look" like much at all. 

The reality is, it was terrible.

And I do mean that. It was terrible at this level.

[The Doctor]

7 minutes ago, Thracian said:

Our midfield, with Drinky/N'Didi and Mendy,  didn't look "balanced" against Southampton - in fact it didn't "look" like much at all. 

That was more the absence of wingers against a team that plays wide. It was the team that lacked balance rather than an ndidi-drinkwater midfield per se.

[Thracian]

18 hours ago, Koke said:

There's a 16 minute highlights on the official Derby County YouTube page. It's with Derby commentary but it's ztill pretty good.

 

 

Having watched the replay of their second goal there's no way King is to blame. Simpson should simply have headed the initial feed into touch and should never have even dreamed of trying to head a hopeful, undirected  high ball into no man's land given that he was going to be momentarily out of position and they would be coming onto it. 

 

King had first go at retrieving the situation but was never going to win the ball against a much taller opponent and the rest was a series of minor faults involving two players momentarily thinking they were each going for the same ball and a failure to finally cover the incoming runner. 

 

Bottom line is that Simpson was the main culprit. Had he headed  safely into touch none of the other problems would have evolved.      

[lgfualol]

3 minutes ago, Thracian said:

Having watched the replay of their second goal there's no way King is to blame. Simpson should simply have headed the initial feed into touch and should never have even dreamed of trying to head a hopeful, undirected  high ball into no man's land given that he was going to be momentarily out of position and they would be coming onto it. 

 

King had first go at retrieving the situation but was never going to win the ball against a much taller opponent and the rest was a series of minor faults involving two players momentarily thinking they were each going for the same ball and a failure to finally cover the incoming runner. 

 

Bottom line is that Simpson was the main culprit. Had he headed  safely into touch none of the other problems would have evolved.      

Why did king let the player just run into the box with the ball though. 

[Thracian]

16 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

That was more the absence of wingers against a team that plays wide. It was the team that lacked balance rather than an ndidi-drinkwater midfield per se.

 

 

There might have been all sorts of reasons but how anyone could deduce as a result that somehow Drinkwater/N'Didi/Mendy represents the Holy Grail of midfields has no evidence whatsoever. And that seems to be a problem on here...whenever we sign new players there's followers with their own agenda in relating to promoting their interests. 

 

Some might mistakenly aim that barb at me but the reality is, when Kante arrived, I didn't say a single word against King's exclusion. Drinky was playing well,  the team was winning and with good reason and Kingy slipped, quite justifiably into an important supporting role.        

 

Since Kante's gone and Drinky's been in a run of bad form I'd never have imagined, Kingy's absence has been missed and all sorts of factors show it.

 

Even in this last week I've said we need a genuinely creative, silky-skilled number 10 but I've seen absolutely no signs of us having one or indeed having anyone who can pass the ball as quickly, accurately and often when under pressure as Kingy can.

 

When that changes I'll be happy to say so. And it didn't go unnoticed to me, that Drinky played better with Kingy back (as did the team generally) for all that he still gave the ball away too often.    

[Thracian]

13 minutes ago, lgfualol said:

Why did king let the player just run into the box with the ball though. 

The Derby player had forward-moving momentum going into a dangerous area whereas King had hardly recovered from his aerial challenge, had no forward momentum, may well have thought he risked a foul (and booking after his previous foul) in a dangerous place and that Drinky was going to challenge anyway. 

 

That's not excuse making either, it's reality. Kingy. Drinky and Morgan were bit-part players in the incident. Simpson had a 100% opportunity to sort the problem at source. He won his header easily and simply putting the ball out of play was always the best, least risky option and the only one that guaranteed we could regroup. I'm actually amazed, on reflection, that anyone could even contest the issue.  People are having a go at King because it suits them.   

 

The bias against various players is glaring. Drinky's virtually immune for all that he's been in awful form. Morgan is another scapegoat with detractors conveniently ignoring our failure to pick up runners into the box as Kante did -our new players being every bit as guilty as others, and then thee's Vardy who gets barely a trickle of criticism for all that he's not merited a starting role for most of the season.

 

I don't have an agenda against any player. I want them all to be brilliant and my team to keep winning things. But, my life, there needs to be a sense of fairness.           

[Col city fan]

6 minutes ago, Thracian said:

 

 

There might have been all sorts of reasons but how anyone could deduce as a result that somehow Drinkwater/N'Didi/Mendy represents the Holy Grail of midfields has no evidence whatsoever. And that seems to be a problem on here...whenever we sign new players there's followers with their own agenda in relating to promoting their interests. 

 

Some might mistakenly aim that barb at me but the reality is, when Kante arrived, I didn't say a single word against King's exclusion. Drinky was playing well,  the team was winning and with good reason and Kingy slipped, quite justifiably into an important supporting role.        

 

Since Kante's gone and Drinky's been in a run of bad form I'd never have imagined, Kingy's absence has been missed and all sorts of factors show it.

 

Even in this last week I've said we need a genuinely creative, silky-skilled number 10 but I've seen absolutely no signs of us having one or indeed having anyone who can pass the ball as quickly, accurately and often when under pressure as Kingy can.

 

When that changes I'll be happy to say so. And it didn't go unnoticed to me, that Drinky played better with Kingy back (as did the team generally) for all that he still gave the ball away too often.    

Your defence of King is admirable. Particularly on a forum that mysteriously seems to overlook the limitations of Amartey, Drinkwater and Mendy, whilst being happy to slate King at the earliest opportunity. So I commend you for sticking up for one of the players at the club that I believe IS a club legend.

The problem is this however...this is the bottom line....King isn't really very good either. He's never been brilliant. It's no surprise he had his best season under Pearson when we won League one at a canter.

So if you are hoping that our midfield can somehow be built around King...it can't.

King is not Kante. He's not in the same ball park as Kante. Very few are.

Whereas Kante hauled our midfield into the modern age, King can't do this. 

King has always been a squad player, never have I considered him a first choice in a Premiership midfield.

Hes no worse than any of the others at the moment.  But he's not that good I'm afraid. 

[Thracian]

7 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

Your defence of King is admirable. Particularly on a forum that mysteriously seems to overlook the limitations of Amartey, Drinkwater and Mendy, whilst being happy to slate King at the earliest opportunity. So I commend you for sticking up for one of the players at the club that I believe IS a club legend.

The problem is this however...this is the bottom line....King isn't really very good either. He's never been brilliant. It's no surprise he had his best season under Pearson when we won League one at a canter.

So if you are hoping that our midfield can somehow be built around King...it can't.

King is not Kante. He's not in the same ball park as Kante. Very few are.

Whereas Kante hauled our midfield into the modern age, King can't do this. 

King has always been a squad player, never have I considered him a first choice in a Premiership midfield.

Hes no worse than any of the others at the moment.  But he's not that good I'm afraid. 

 

I referred to Kante in relation to King as you were writing. It shows my views are entirely in tandem with your own. I've not looked at the stats against Derby but I'm happy for anyone to look them out.

 

They'll show that King was on the ball lots of times and retained possession for an excellent pecentage of those times. In relation to our current midfielders he's been the best we've got, not counting N'Didi who's not really played enough to judge. If we can get better I'm all for it.

 

I thought King should have moved on months ago and said so on at least three occasions. That he's still our quickest and most accurate passing reflects the shortcomings of our recent recruitment and the stupidity of letting Kante go at all without a proven replacement...even if it had meant going to court.          

[Ian S]

14 hours ago, fuchsntf said:

I did ....I'll stick...

 

You twist if you like..

So it was nothing to do with Simpson then?

[Koke]

I still think King is still useful here if we become a possesion based side. This hoofing defensive approach  does him no favours.  He's not a DM. He's a goal scoring midfielder. 

[Mark]

Butterfield for our second goal is almost as bad as Bent, not sure what either were attempting.

[Ian S]

14 hours ago, Col city fan said:

Stop.....avoiding.....the.....question.....and.....answer......it.......

What do you see in this side and the performances this season to make you think we'll stay in the division?

Rather than jumping on others for their 'over-reaction' try to give an opinion yourself. It would be so refreshing to actually hear it, rather than see you glibly pick up on other's.

 

As said previously we have been truly awful but average virtually a point a game.A point a game from now on would in all probability keep us up so even no improvement  almost gets us safe. What have I seen this season so far,well not a lot however contrary to the view of many I firmly believe we are far better than we have showed so far. What had we seen at this stage 2 years ago, again not a lot but a similar team turned it around.We have a decent squad that is under performing horribly and no one is too good to go down.

There are also some pretty awful teams this year which helps our prospects.

I don't watch City through rose tinted glasses and still find it hard to fathom how we have got ourselves into a relegation battle and clearly something has gone badly wrong, and whilst there are many wild and wonderful theories none of us know exactly what is the root cause but we are good enough to turn it around and end up having a half decent season,things can change very quickly in football and who knows maybe they will shock us all starting on Tuesday.

However i would be a lot happier with a couple of defensive signings in the next couple of days.

What I can't stand is the regular posters on here who are in their element when things are going wrong and yet as soon as we get a result suddenly jump on the band wagon proclaiming us as world beaters.

Furthermore I will stand by my view that I saw positive signs on Friday but admittedly it will mean nothing unless we follow it up at Burnley.

Oh and Amartey will be back soon?

[fuchsntf]

33 minutes ago, Ian S said:

So it was nothing to do with Simpson then?

I am sure if we were down the pub together, we would have a great discussion, exchanging opinions

going back n forth, then having a few more pints...Then you end up agreeing....

SIMPSON IS INNOCENT, ....

I am a good boy, I'll even buy the last round...

[ThurmastonFox]

Replay on tv do we think?

[Webbo]

4 minutes ago, ThurmastonFox said:

Replay on tv do we think?

It usually is if they've shown the first match.

[The Doctor]

2 hours ago, Thracian said:

 

 

There might have been all sorts of reasons but how anyone could deduce as a result that somehow Drinkwater/N'Didi/Mendy represents the Holy Grail of midfields has no evidence whatsoever.

Nonsense - no-one has done that of the back of Southampton but what we saw at Everton and the billing Ndidi got on his way in suggests it's a midfield worth assessing, which means more than just a couple of games. Besides, anyone judging any partnerships from the Southampton game is absurd. The set up was completely wrong (drinkwater as a makeshift RM ffs) and left everyone exposed.

[Ashley]

2 hours ago, Thracian said:

Having watched the replay of their second goal there's no way King is to blame. Simpson should simply have headed the initial feed into touch and should never have even dreamed of trying to head a hopeful, undirected  high ball into no man's land given that he was going to be momentarily out of position and they would be coming onto it. 

 

King had first go at retrieving the situation but was never going to win the ball against a much taller opponent and the rest was a series of minor faults involving two players momentarily thinking they were each going for the same ball and a failure to finally cover the incoming runner. 

 

Bottom line is that Simpson was the main culprit. Had he headed  safely into touch none of the other problems would have evolved.      

King could of taken one for the team, and taken him out. Take the yellow, second goal doesn't happen. Not the first time he's not made the foul either. 

[Col city fan]

1 hour ago, Ian S said:

As said previously we have been truly awful but average virtually a point a game.A point a game from now on would in all probability keep us up so even no improvement  almost gets us safe. What have I seen this season so far,well not a lot however contrary to the view of many I firmly believe we are far better than we have showed so far. What had we seen at this stage 2 years ago, again not a lot but a similar team turned it around.We have a decent squad that is under performing horribly and no one is too good to go down.

There are also some pretty awful teams this year which helps our prospects.

I don't watch City through rose tinted glasses and still find it hard to fathom how we have got ourselves into a relegation battle and clearly something has gone badly wrong, and whilst there are many wild and wonderful theories none of us know exactly what is the root cause but we are good enough to turn it around and end up having a half decent season,things can change very quickly in football and who knows maybe they will shock us all starting on Tuesday.

However i would be a lot happier with a couple of defensive signings in the next couple of days.

What I can't stand is the regular posters on here who are in their element when things are going wrong and yet as soon as we get a result suddenly jump on the band wagon proclaiming us as world beaters.

Furthermore I will stand by my view that I saw positive signs on Friday but admittedly it will mean nothing unless we follow it up at Burnley.

Oh and Amartey will be back soon?

Tf for that....

 

[Thracian]

2 hours ago, Koke said:

I still think King is still useful here if we become a possesion based side. This hoofing defensive approach  does him no favours.  He's not a DM. He's a goal scoring midfielder. 

 

 

I don't know if he's still capable of being a goalscoring midfielder because his required task now seems to be tidying up and quickly redistributing the ball to those who have a bit more oomph.

 

In some ways that's made him quite good defensively because he quite often helps at defensive corners and quite often reads the game well enough to break up attacks. 

 

He's never going to clatter people but is a better tackler and pincher of the ball than he used to be but it's all at the cost of getting forward and onto the end of two or three chances per game - a quality that made him quite deadly at one time because his finishing was so cool. 

 

There was a time when Kingy would have finished two of three of our chances against Derby because he'd have placed the ball where the goalkeeper wasn't but these days he doesn't have the engine, the licence or the opportunity to get in there sensibly. It may be because he knows we'll be exposed to a quick counter attack but I suspect he simply doesn't have the energy to be a 90-minute box-to-box player in Premiership company. Few do.  

 

I'd certainly explore the idea of involving him on practiced set pieces though - be it corners or free-kicks. We're awful at them - a real embarrassment. There's not the slightest indication that we ever work on them. But Kingy could be dangerous as the recipient because he's so accurate either in having a shot or delivering a second pass.

 

It might be worth four or five goals a season done properly. But it won't be. As mentioned elsewhere, we don't even have a free-kick specialist. How remiss is that for a Premiership team? Especially when such a margin could conceivably save our status over a season. 

 

And people wonder why I'm not impressed with our coaching. The problem's been there for years and a good many more.   .   

    

[Thracian]

1 hour ago, Ashley said:

King could of taken one for the team, and taken him out. Take the yellow, second goal doesn't happen. Not the first time he's not made the foul either. 

 

So, Kingy gets a booking and concedes a free-kick in a dangerous position that could cost us a goal - knowing that there are defenders goal side in any case.

 

Not the brightest idea, even in hindsight.

 

And more than that you condone the idea of cheating.

 

Of someone taking a duplicate ball on the golf course to drop if they can't find a tee shot that lands in the rough.

 

Or footballers sticking a leg out to clip a defender and win a penalty.

 

I know it happens week in, week out.

 

Doesn't make it right, doesn't impress me even as a supporter of my team and certainly isn't a part of Andy King's character from anything I've seen of him - and I fully respect him for it.

 

Some will point to all the trophies and honours Kingys won with us but I'd also point to his attitude. Day in, day out, he sets an example. for himself, for his family and for anyone watching. 

 

I'd far rather we lose than start cheating to win.   

 

 

 

 

 

  

[Thracian]

1 hour ago, The Doctor said:

Nonsense - no-one has done that of the back of Southampton but what we saw at Everton and the billing Ndidi got on his way in suggests it's a midfield worth assessing, which means more than just a couple of games. Besides, anyone judging any partnerships from the Southampton game is absurd. The set up was completely wrong (drinkwater as a makeshift RM ffs) and left everyone exposed.

 

 

I don't know how N'Didi will turn out in the end for us and I'm as hopeful as the next man.

 

But from what I've seen so far the "billing" you refer to was just exagerated hype. 

 

To compare N'Didi with Kante like we're waiting for The Second Coming, was sheer fantasy.

 

There is no comparison at this stage. Kante's in a completely different class.

 

And will be until N'Didi completes what I suspect will be a fairly lengthy apprenticeship.  

 

As for our "set up" brilliance is apparent whatever...and there was none.

 

We lost three nil, it could have been six, we were second to everything and we should have been ashamed of ourselves all round.  

 

 

 

[foxy boxing]

We managed to save the game in the end and will need to be up for it at the Kingpower to beat these.at least we didn't lose like other big teams.

[Ashley]

23 minutes ago, Thracian said:

 

So, Kingy gets a booking and concedes a free-kick in a dangerous position that could cost us a goal - knowing that there are defenders goal side in any case.

 

Not the brightest idea, even in hindsight.

 

And more than that you condone the idea of cheating.

 

Of someone taking a duplicate ball on the golf course to drop if they can't find a tee shot that lands in the rough.

 

Or footballers sticking a leg out to clip a defender and win a penalty.

 

I know it happens week in, week out.

 

Doesn't make it right, doesn't impress me even as a supporter of my team and certainly isn't a part of Andy King's character from anything I've seen of him - and I fully respect him for it.

 

Some will point to all the trophies and honours Kingys won with us but I'd also point to his attitude. Day in, day out, he sets an example. for himself, for his family and for anyone watching. 

 

I'd far rather we lose than start cheating to win.   

 

 

 

 

 

  

It happens in Football deal with it and it isn't cheating. 

[Thracian]

29 minutes ago, Ashley said:

It happens in Football deal with it and it isn't cheating. 

Of course it's cheating. What else would you call a deliberate foul designed to stop a goal?