Derby Away Post Match Thread 2 - 2

[dedlock]

It was a better performance.A draw was the least we deserved. 62% possession,14 shots,6 on target to Derby's 3. Carson Derby MOTM. Derby had a spell after Bent's goal until half time but City were the better side first 20 minutes and dominated 2nd half. What do some posters want?

O.k.,Carson was fortunate with some saves which came straight at him but there was good tip over the bar from Shinji first half,Gray hit the post.JV heading at Carson late on seemed to epitomise his season,Man City excepted.

 

 

[Thracian]

54 minutes ago, foxinsocks said:

We had posession but no creativity.... v man citywe played tappy tappy to break thru for 20 minutes...  none of it last night. Few balls over the yop for vardy. I believe the players are working hard.... but i think they ate short on belief

 

For a team with "no creativity" we seemed to have quite enough chances to score.  

[ian_marshall]

9 hours ago, gcxttle said:

I think the main problem with the team at the moment is the defence and more specifically both central defenders. Firstly, Morgan and Huth are past it, they're far too old and sluggish to be partnered up together, maybe one of them will work well with another defender but together is a big no no. This season Morgan and Huth have been exposed due to the fact we don't have Kanté protecting them, also when Morgan and Huth played together 2 seasons ago they were in a complete different formation with Wasilewksi in the defence also. Morgan and Huth also play a big part in the way we play going forward also as both of them are god awful at passing the ball which forces them to play a simple backwards pass or lump it up the field which completely changes how the team set out and the style of play. Even against lower league opposition we just looked like an absolute shambles at the back at times, yes I know Simpson and Fuchs also contribute to the defence and they both have their issues but at the moment I feel like Morgan and Huth are the biggest problem. We need to try and get someone in before Tuesday who can actually defend for one, is fairly nippy compared to Morgan and Huth and also someone who can pass the ball, whether that's Acerbi or Nastasic I don't know. If we can't get anyone in to strengthen the defence we need to play either Mendy or N'Didi just infront of the defence to offer defensive cover and also to provide an attacking outlet from the defence. 

Completely agree with this. For me the centre backs are the reason we're struggling. Both are absolute legends in my eyes and it saddens me to say it but age has finally caught up with them. It happens to the best of them so we shouldn't be too critical (John Terry being a prime example), but I do feel that they are hindering the team in terms of how we set up.

 

Neither have ever been particularly quick but the their lack of mobility this season means that their starting position is much deeper to try and prevent the ball in behind. This was a problem earlier in the season as the gap between the midfield  (who were playing a higher line similar to last season to press the ball) was huge leaving them exposed. As the season's progressed the midfield dropped deeper to support the back four, which in turn created a bigger gap between the midfield and forwards. This has led to the forwards dropping deeper to narrow the gap hence why we're seeing Vardy struggling this season as it's harder for him to use his explosive acceleration to get in behind as he now has an extra 10/20 yards to sprint. This wouldn't be so much of a problem if the back line were comfortable on the ball and able to play it out from the back to enable us to build up play from the back in order to slowly transition through each third as a unit, however with two centre halves who revert to hoofing the ball to no one and giving possession of the ball straight back to the opposition we're always going to struggle to get out of our own half. Hopefully, we see some transfer activity and this situation is remedied.

[Thracian]

6 minutes ago, ian_marshall said:

Completely agree with this. For me the centre backs are the reason we're struggling. Both are absolute legends in my eyes and it saddens me to say it but age has finally caught up with them. It happens to the best of them so we shouldn't be too critical (John Terry being a prime example), but I do feel that they are hindering the team in terms of how we set up.

 

Neither have ever been particularly quick but the their lack of mobility this season means that their starting position is much deeper this season to try and prevent the ball in behind. This was a problem earlier in the season as the gap between the midfield  (who were playing a higher line similar to last season to press the ball) was huge leaving them exposed. As the season's progressed the midfield dropped deeper to support the back four, which in turn created a bigger gap between the midfield and forwards. This has led to the forwards dropping deeper to narrow the gap hence why we're seeing Vardy struggling this season as it's harder for him to use his explosive acceleration to get im behind as he now has an extra 10/20 yards to sprint. This wouldn't be so much of a problem if the back line were comfortable on the ball and able to play it out from the back to enable us to build up play from the back in order to slowly transition through each third as a unit, however with two centre halves who revert to hoofing the ball to no one and giving possession of the ball straight back to the opposition we're always going to struggle to get out of our own half. Hopefully, we see some transfer activity and this situation is remedied.

Sadly it's hard to argue with this and it makes me wince how basic or pedestrian we are. Morgan and Huth have done a terrific job here and were cornerstones of our title year but the job's changed somewhat and we need to change in all sorts of ways. Strong but mobile defenders are a must - and they need to be as assured and quick to control and use the ball as everyone else.    

[Ian Nacho]

At the end of the day we simply can't play 4-4-2 with the current defence. We need to play 4-3-3 with a midfielder very very deep. 

[Collymore]

I must admit Morgan looked finished last night. I think his legs have gone, probably due to the ridiculous amount of games he's played over the years and he's not good enough at football to change his game to still play at this level.

 

I know he scored but that was just papering over the cracks. 

 

 

[LCCFox96]

We deserved a draw but it was hardly an inspiring and uplifting performance. Gray should have started - I don't understand this fixation Claudio has with using Chilwell and Fuchs on the left flank together, it's shite. Vardy, Morgan, Huth all very poor again. 

[Fox92]

We weren't 'lucky' at all. Better than them hence we controlled most of the game. Another 5 mins and we would have won. 

 

I recall Kasper having to make one save really other than pick two goals out the net. Just a shame he plays behind a very poor defence. Huth and Morgan looked poor.

[Fox92]

1 minute ago, LCCFox96 said:

We deserved a draw but it was hardly an inspiring and uplifting performance. Gray should have started - I don't understand this fixation Claudio has with using Chilwell and Fuchs on the left flank together, it's shite. Vardy, Morgan, Huth all very poor again. 

I can't believe we went to a Championship side with two left full backs. Gray should have started. 

[MattCan]

2 minutes ago, gcxttle said:

At the end of the day we simply can't play 4-4-2 with the current defence. We need to play 4-3-3 with a midfielder very very deep. 

That's if you have a specialty CAM amongst the 3 midfielders, which is not the case atm.

[sk3since03]

1 minute ago, Collymore said:

I must admit Morgan looked finished last night. I think his legs have gone, probably due to the ridiculous amount of games he's played over the years and he's not good enough at football to change his game to still play at this level.

 

I know he scored but that was just papering over the cracks. 

 

 

Have to agree Wes looks knac*ered, shadow of the player last year as are the rest but Morgan really does stand out! He's had his day and will go down a legend 

[The People's Hero]

Morgan at the very minimum needs a break from actual matches and to spend a bit of team with the conditioning guys. He looks like he's constantly blowing. I think last seasons heroics have taken their toll. Might be salvageable but we need to manage him. 

[Max Wall]

9 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

Morgan at the very minimum needs a break from actual matches and to spend a bit of team with the conditioning guys. He looks like he's constantly blowing. I think last seasons heroics have taken their toll. Might be salvageable but we need to manage him. 

Morgan was never the quickest at adjusting but watching the replay of the Bryson goal showed just how easy it has become for a bang average footballer to make him look cumbersome. I think he's actually done.

[Ian S]

5 hours ago, Royston. said:

very lucky to get a draw which we didnt want.

 

for about 8 minutes we looked up for it.

 

another awful offering.

 

God help us. (again)

 

 

There is some massive overreaction on here and your comments about top it.

[Deano79]

Thought played quite well created a lot second half. Gray, Okazaki and vardy should have all put there chances away. In first half vardy and Okazaki both had breaks, where shot from 25 yards rather than take last man on or find a pass. 

[foxes21]

34 minutes ago, gcxttle said:

At the end of the day we simply can't play 4-4-2 with the current defence. We need to play 4-3-3 with a midfielder very very deep. 

we cant play 4-3-3 either, because we end up with 3 defensive midfielders, who won't help attack and no attacking right back. We have to play 4-4-1-1, it's the only formation which suites our players. I'm looking forward to seeing Drinkwater & Ndidi in the middle.

[Nick]

11 minutes ago, foxes21 said:

we cant play 4-3-3 either, because we end up with 3 defensive midfielders, who won't help attack and no attacking right back. We have to play 4-4-1-1, it's the only formation which suites our players. I'm looking forward to seeing Drinkwater & Ndidi in the middle.

 

This.

 

+1 we looked a bit more like our old selves yesterday. We worked hard, passed the ball better and we were more creative. Mahrez looked so dangerous running in to the box when he came on and some of the movement between players was really very impressive. Okazaki worked hard but for me he didn't release the ball early enough and obviously struggles to retain possession because he ends up on the deck one in three touches Slim can learn to play in that position or it'll be Gaston I think with Okazaki as a second choice harrying super sub.

 

Bit concerned that Chilwell when Fuchs went off didn't seem to realise he was a Left Back and left his colleagues exposed at the back when he remained so far up the pitch thinking he was a number 10 but hey ho, he'll be a quality player for the future.

 

This is Wes's last season for us as a first choice CB and possibly Huth's too but never say never - it's not like they've had much rest time and the pace issue may just be fatigue - we obviously need more strength in depth in that position and Raneiri clearly wants ball playing centre backs which I would welcome - time to break the bank.....

 

Lastly like the above poster commented I'm looking forward to seeing Mahrez, Ndidi Drinks and Gray in midfield though I'd be tempted to experiment with the RB position a little more.... I do think though that Kings passing and movement was good yesterday and whilst his tackling isn't nearly as good as Ndidi I'm not sure the new lads movement and creative pass completion is particularly there yet.

 

Overall there's some positive signs that came out of yesterday's match.

[Matt]

2 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Would you all stop feckin moaning 

 

last  16 champions league (yes , remember that!!!)

 

in the FA cup 5th round draw after two away ties

 

struggling in the prem but 5 points clear of relegation 

 

the club are trying to get new players in to make you all feel a bit better about things

 

and last nights game - don't think many prem league teams would have enjoyed going there

 

 

 

 

Gloss over it all you like, we're playing shite, that is where the moaning stems from.

 

As for 'the club are trying to get new players in to make you all feel a bit better about things' I'm not seeing it and i'm very concerned. It'll be panic mayhem come Tuesday, I might be wrong but it is concerning at this stage and if it is the case heads must roll within the recruitment team.

[AmarteyAndChill]

3 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

 

This.

 

+1 we looked a bit more like our old selves yesterday. We worked hard, passed the ball better and we were more creative. Mahrez looked so dangerous running in to the box when he came on and some of the movement between players was really very impressive. Okazaki worked hard but for me he didn't release the ball early enough and obviously struggles to retain possession because he ends up on the deck one in three touches Slim can learn to play in that position or it'll be Gaston I think with Okazaki as a second choice harrying super sub.

 

Bit concerned that Chilwell when Fuchs went off didn't seem to realise he was a Left Back and left his colleagues exposed at the back when he remained so far up the pitch thinking he was a number 10 but hey ho, he'll be a quality player for the future.

 

This is Wes's last season for us as a first choice CB and possibly Huth's too but never say never - it's not like they've had much rest time and the pace issue may just be fatigue - we obviously need more strength in depth in that position and Raneiri clearly wants ball playing centre backs which I would welcome - time to break the bank.....

 

Lastly like the above poster commented I'm looking forward to seeing Mahrez, Ndidi Drinks and Gray in midfield though I'd be tempted to experiment with the RB position a little more.... I do think though that Kings passing and movement was good yesterday and whilst his tackling isn't nearly as good as Ndidi I'm not sure the new lads movement and creative pass completion is particularly there yet.

 

Overall there's some positive signs that came out of yesterday's match.

King just passes sideways or backwards and he can't tackle. He's not good enough to play in a midfield two as his passing is very limited.

[Thracian]

11 minutes ago, AmarteyAndChill said:

King just passes sideways or backwards and he can't tackle. He's not good enough to play in a midfield two as his passing is very limited.

How come our midfield two had far more of the ball and functioned much more fluently than at Southampton then? Furthermore, helped by our build-up we created far more chances.

As for not being able to tackle it's a myth. Even when he was blown up for a foul he actually took the ball. Just because he doesn't flatten people doesn't mean he doesn't play his part in regaining possession - lots of times.

He's also the outlet pass for lots of players who would otherwise be in deep shit.

He's not to blame if our team doesn't play with enough attacking strength until we're losing and getting desperate.

Our domination improved second half because Derby were knackered and we put people on who could attract forward passes which is often not the case and never will be in a team with wholly defensive full-backs. Sometimes yesterday king was actually looking for a forward ball and couldn't find one. In the end he virtually ran over to Mahrez and sent him on his way. There needs to be movement from everyone but neither Vardy nor Shinji are shining in that department.         

[AmarteyAndChill]

15 minutes ago, Thracian said:

How come our midfield two had far more of the ball and functioned much more fluently than at Southampton then? Furthermore, helped by our build-up we created far more chances.

As for not being able to tackle it's a myth. Even when he was blown up for a foul he actually took the ball. Just because he doesn't flatten people doesn't mean he doesn't play his part in regaining possession - lots of times.

He's also the outlet pass for lots of players who would otherwise be in deep shit.

He's not to blame if our team doesn't play with enough attacking strength until we're losing and getting desperate.

Our domination improved second half because Derby were knackered and we put people on who could attract forward passes which is often not the case and never will be in a team with wholly defensive full-backs. Sometimes yesterday king was actually looking for a forward ball and couldn't find one. In the end he virtually ran over to Mahrez and sent him on his way. There needs to be movement from everyone but neither Vardy nor Shinji are shining in that department.         

Southampton are a much better side than Derby, that's why we had more of the ball. Also, the Derby player ran past him for their second goal without King making a tackle.

[Thracian]

11 minutes ago, AmarteyAndChill said:

Southampton are a much better side than Derby, that's why we had more of the ball. Also, the Derby player ran past him for their second goal without King making a tackle.

 

I've seen Southampton lose to teams like Derby and whether you're right or wrong we can only play the opposition in front of us and they'd already beaten West Brom so I think they've earned some credit and respect.    

 

As for Derby's first goal, problem one was the ball being hoisted in the air, problem two the Derby player was running on to it and neither King nor Drinkwater had a realistic chance of stopping him fairly and, indeed his momentum took him flying past two more Leicester defenders several yards ahead. Even they couldn't react in time and the bloke had a virtually free shot. 

 

Next time I watch I'll give you a run down on Amartey's faults, especially when it comes to tracking runners. I hope you've got plenty of time. It would be a toss up which was longer - that or my assessment of our midfield efforts at Southampton. Perhaps I should look out the stats.          

[fuchsntf]

14 minutes ago, AmarteyAndChill said:

Southampton are a much better side than Derby, that's why we had more of the ball. Also, the Derby player ran past him for their second goal without King making a tackle.

DDrinkwater gets away with it again then...!!   3 players imo were to blame for that 2nd goal.

DD + King for their poor covering, and not chasing down, and poor reaction from Morgan.

For the Derby player a great run, but after his first surge, he should of easily been closed down.

This was another proof, how has small groups, and within individuals, we have lost that

'want' from last year. You seen with the back 7 of Derby how they battled for their own areas..

[st albans fox]

Chilwell has a particular issue in that he wants to overlap but we are not programmed to play like that

 

albrighton cuts inside and then should reverse pass Ben into the space created. Instead he looks to chip a cross onto the centre backs head - this will get sorted out once chilwell becomes first choice and we don't rely on our full backs to stay and cover the centre halves all the time 

 

as for glossing over stuff Matt, all I did was state facts. how well/badly we are playing is subjective. I could argue we were pretty awful for quite a few games second half of last season yet because we were solid at the back and nicked goals up top, it was all papered over. it's a mental thing and has led to a complete loss of confidence. Tricky period coming up where the home fixtures are less than winnable which could mean the players are bottom three come game 27. then they will have to come to terms with it. they won't want relegation on their cv's following last season. Who would want to be known primarily for being a loser when history could see you solely as a glorious winner. 

[Topman]

14 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

Claudio, please don't play Okazaki anymore.

Thought he had a decent game compare to most of the players