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Vacamion

President Trump & the USA

By Vacamion, in General Chat

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lifted*fox

lifted*fox

Posted
Posted
Just now, MattP said:

@lifted*fox you might be a "leftie" but you are certainly no liberal in the British sense or use of the word.

 

Liberalism is understandable, tolerance and acceptance - liberals don't post about wanting to stab Tory leaders, fire them into the sun etc just because they disagree with a political viewpoint. 

 

oh bore off Matt. you pull up the same old shite every time you run out of steam in an argument.

 

I called Teresa May a bitch once, tongue in cheek most likely as is my posting style and you hold onto it like a ****ing childhood toy you can't let go of. get over it. 

 

I think the tireless posting I do on other subjects speaking out for people's rights far outweighs me calling your Conservative heroes the odd swear word.

 

change the record m8, you've rinsed that one to death 

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Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

oh bore off Matt. you pull up the same old shite every time you run out of steam in an argument.

 

I called Teresa May a bitch once, tongue in cheek most likely as is my posting style and you hold onto it like a ****ing childhood toy you can't let go of. get over it. 

 

I think the tireless posting I do on other subjects speaking out for people's rights far outweighs me calling your Conservative heroes the odd swear word.

 

change the record m8, you've rinsed that one to death 

lol

 

Conservative heroes? Do you read anything I write about Theresa May?

 

To be honest I'd like to you just answer the questions I ask you rather than do this (the ones yesterday on the peoples vote ideally) instead you just virtue signal about how compassionate you are everytime you get into an argument. It was bad enough you kept accusing leavers of lying yet consistently did so yourself, claiming no deal was the only option so brazenly was outrageous.

 

My point stands though, liberalism is about tolerance and acceptance and that includes the views of others - hence why you get Conservative liberals, Libertarian liberals and Left wing liberals - you fit into none of these.

 

I've actually spent pretty much the whole of today helping others for nothing, one a friend, the other an elderly relative, something I do a lot but I never bother mentioning it as I think it's a personal thing - but you are obviously so much much more compassionate because of your tireless posting on here about Trump.

 

I depise this "Internet compassion" - look at how good I am because of what I post, volunteer at your local Loros shop and don't tell anyone about it - that's virtue and compassion, not swearing about Trump on a forum.

Edited by MattP
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Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

you miss the point so spectacularly matt.

 

:appl:

No worries mate, let's just get smashed/stoned and watch the City win tonight instead.

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Izzy

Izzy

Posted
Posted
41 minutes ago, MattP said:

No worries mate, let's just get smashed/stoned and watch the City win tonight instead.

 

27 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

 

Peace bro. I got no real beef here. :kissing:

 

23 minutes ago, MattP said:

Up the City bud.

Image result for i love happy endings gif

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bovril

bovril

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, MattP said:

No worries mate, let's just get smashed/stoned and watch the City win tonight instead.

 

2 hours ago, lifted*fox said:

 

Peace bro. I got no real beef here. :kissing:

 

2 hours ago, MattP said:

Up the City bud.

I'll be honest I'm disappointed. 

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

You are getting ahead of yourself.

 

I repeat:

Let's see what the final draft looks like before we start condemning the GOP.

Until then, all we have are bits and pieces based on an article in one newspaper that has its own political stance.

 

I am not going to automatically buy into this media hype and subsequent frenzy stirred by Dems and their affiliates just because more gullible people like you want to make me "feel" like it.

And yes, "gender identity" should be thoroughly discussed, even though it affects just 0,3% of the US population.

So, we're definitely talking about minority and fringe politics here.

 

8 hours ago, MattP said:

As much as I appreciate this, if I had the money to fly somewhere and fight for equal rights - America would be pretty low on the list given the current state of the World.

 

I'm not "certain" of anything either

 

Fair enough. I was going to respond to these but Doc and lifted pretty much did it for me.

 

I'll only add that most of us on here - not being trans in the US at the present time - have the luxury of being able to discuss this from a point of view where it won't really affect us directly and so focus on/overlook/be worried about it/not be worried about it as we wish. But for that particular demographic, this isn't a semantic debate, something that can be chatted about over tea - this is about crucial elements of their lives, and what defines them. And yes, from pretty much everything I have read they are, as a demographic, extremely worried about where this will go. Of course, you've only got my word to go on on that but a Google search will mostly back that up, I think. After all, given its past actions, is there any reason to suspect that this administration wouldn't be saying what they mean on this one?

 

And once again, yes, it's a fringe issue. But this is a community that has been marginalised for pretty much all their existence - isn't the job of a decent society to actually help such folks rather than kick them further down? And should they be marginalised further...who then does this administration turn on? A larger demographic, next time?

 

And if being concerned about the suffering of strangers makes me supposedly gullible, then fair enough - I make no apologies for that. Empathy isn't just a nice peccadillo - it's crucial to future human survival, IMO.

 

PS. You never answered my question about the climate policy of this administration and how important you think it is, Prussian.

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Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted

Probably shouldn't be in here but as it's where the most of the Trans talk has come I'll put it here. Good read from Trevor Phillips - the former head of the Commission for Racial Equality and Human Rights- on why the Transextremists are putting equality at risk for us.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-extremists-are-putting-equality-at-risk-fjv8skwz0

Quote

At most weddings, there’s a certain wry amusement to be had from watching the father of the bride on the dance floor getting down with the kids, determined to show that he hasn’t lost his moves. But when a flailing limb catches a fellow dancer unawares it stops being funny.

 

So it is with politicians and identity politics. For four decades western leaders were so determined to prove their anti-racist credentials that they ignored the signs of growing public unease about our multi-ethnic societies. The outcome: Trump, Brexit and the steady advance of truly racist and anti-immigrant movements.

 

The disaster of the public consultation process on gender recognition has revealed a government so terrified of being labelled transphobic that it is ready to destroy half a century of painstakingly assembled anti-discrimination legislation to the detriment of every woman, person of colour and disabled individual in Britain. Under the current law, a change of gender requires a two-year period of reflection, medical checks and possible physical alterations. It is a gruelling process and proposed reforms to the Gender Recognition Act rightly aim to make the process less bureaucratic.

However, agitation by a guilt-tripping band of “trans” activists has corralled MPs into contemplating a wholly unnecessary and dangerous further step. It is seriously being suggested that we should do away with any objective test of gender, and leave the decision as to whether an individual should be treated as male or female entirely in the hands of the person themselves. In short, a man would be able to declare himself a woman, and immediately have every right to enter spaces reserved for women — changing rooms, lavatories, prisons.

 

The feminist objection to “self-declaration” has already been made on these pages, not least by Janice Turner, who has been subject to shrieking abuse by some bullies from the trans lobby. Many of these people were born — and still are — male, by most people’s standards. The fact that in at least one case women in prisons have been sexually assaulted by a “woman” who happened to possess a penis would give most of us pause for thought. Yet the otherwise sensible MPs on the women and equalities select committee have backed self-declaration and startlingly, David Isaac, my admirable successor as chairman of the Equalities and Human Rights Commission, has announced that he favours “de-medicalisation” — a way of allowing men to become women without the inconvenient step of ceasing to be male.

 

I can only imagine that many of those supporting this insanity believe that they are displaying empathy for a group of individuals who have suffered genuine anguish. But this is certainly not what I had in mind when, along with the other authors of the 2010 Equality Act, we fought to include transgender as a protected characteristic in anti-discrimination law. The truth is that, far from encouraging empathy, extreme trans activists and their allies are adding a new layer of cruelty by raising false hopes that changing gender could become as easy as changing a name.

 

The problem is this: if self-declaration becomes established as a principle for one protected characteristic — gender — why should it not apply to all of the other eight, including disability or race? It is hard to see how the law could resist the claims of a man who, despite all medical advice to the contrary, decides that he is mentally disabled, and therefore should be eligible for disability benefits and time off work. The human and financial costs would be horrendous.

 

I can already hear outrage at the comparison. The activists will complain that equating gender with disability is yet another example of galloping transphobia. But why shouldn’t a society ask individuals to pass objective tests to acquire identity status? Without criteria other than personal preference, it would be impossible to decide whether some groups truly suffer disadvantage — a big issue for women and people of colour. The measurement of gender and ethnic pay gaps would become instantly unviable, since no one could be sure that those who declared themselves to be black women actually were either black or female.

 

Self-declaration is already proving a disaster elsewhere in the world. In Brazil, dozens of blonde, blue-eyed students were found to have taken university places reserved for the descendants of African slaves. Given the country’s history of sexual violence pretty much every Brazilian can claim a black ancestor but this was hardly the law’s aim. In the US, Rachel Dolezal, a white woman who declared herself an African-American, contrived to become an officer of the National Association for the Advancement of Coloured People. Vijay Chokal-Ingam, brother of the Indian-American TV star Mindy Kaling, found that his grades weren’t good enough to get him into medical school, so he shaved his hair, trimmed his eyelashes, reclassified himself as African-American, and duly took his place at St Louis University, almost certainly depriving some worthy young person of medical training.

 

The self-declaration principle, masquerading as compassionate recognition, risks making a mockery of the struggle for equality. If ministers give in to trans zealots, a white man would merely need to say “Today, I’m a black woman. I might not be tomorrow but, hey, who cares?” Well, I do. And so should everyone who genuinely believes in fairness.

 

Trevor Phillips was chairman of the Equalities and Human Rights Commission 2006-12

 

 

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, MattP said:

Probably shouldn't be in here but as it's where the most of the Trans talk has come I'll put it here. Good read from Trevor Phillips - the former head of the Commission for Racial Equality and Human Rights- on why the Transextremists are putting equality at risk for us.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-extremists-are-putting-equality-at-risk-fjv8skwz0

 

Good read that, and after all Mr Phillips does have some experience in addressing such matters.

 

The way I see it, it's something of a dilemma: allowing people to self-determine in the eyes of themselves and the law of the land should be the right thing to do in the interests of freedom of personage and choice. Identity really shouldn't be an issue at all, full stop - human is human in terms of basic civil rights.

 

However, as identity is still very much an issue practically all over the world, there are always - as Mr Phillips points out - folks who will try to use those issues and the inequalities they generate to their personal advantage. And while that's the case, there is always going to be an issue with trust in terms of self-determination. As such, some gatekeeping (as it is called) is a sad necessity regarding such things. Unless you really think that the good from allowing decent people to self-determine for the sake of their own health outweighs the bad caused by those who use it for base purposes.

 

Honestly, I see trans folks around the world struggling to assume an identity where they actually feel at peace with a world that discriminates against them in a myriad of ways, but then I also see freedom that would make lives easier for them being abused by arseholes who don't deserve it and haven't earned it.

 

No real good solution exists - either way decent people are getting hurt.

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, MattP said:

A dream for conspiracy theorists this.

Oh yes, the MAGAhat wearing Alex Jones-clones are already screaming "False Flag!" at the top of their lungs to try to cover up that one of their own, or at least someone who thinks like them, was most likely responsible.

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