leicsmac Posted 18 June 2019 Share Posted 18 June 2019 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48643756 From Stonewall to now, a pretty good analysis from the Beeb. When 25% of polled people in the US think straight-sex relations should be illegal, even now, then maybe one might think of taking a "Straight Pride" parade seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SO1 Posted 18 June 2019 Share Posted 18 June 2019 4 hours ago, Carl the Llama said: Anybody seen that Joe Biden's claimed the USA will eradicate cancer if he gets elected President? I know it's a strong personal issue for him but wow. Sadly If I cant afford health care now why should it matter. If I get cancer I can't afford the treatment. What a sad joke these people are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Prussian Posted 18 June 2019 Share Posted 18 June 2019 4 hours ago, Buce said: ... quite clearly conflating an entire ethnic demographic with all the other reasons that evidence California 'going down the drains'. You labelled yourself a racist by your own words (not that anyone ever doubted it, I'm sure, but it's good to see it confirmed), so don't try and play the innocent victim. Come off your high horse. Quoting statistics doesn't make one a racist. And again, you're going for the man, when you should go for the message. I was referring to the issues with Hispanics as part of a larger problem for the state of California in particular: https://www.city-journal.org/html/do-we-want-mexifornia-12236.html (2002, but still valid) It's about the continuous, regular influx of unskilled, cheap labour, illegal immigration, issues with health care (or lack thereof), taxation (or lack thereof), failure to integrate, lack of education, poor health, crime, drugs, ghettoization. You name it. Hispanics are the largest ethnicity in California today (40%), so their struggles cannot be ignored and they become more and more influential or dominate politics... in many ways. The speed of the demographic change comes with its own issues. This is not to say that other ethnic groups in California pose similar problems. This is a multi-faceted issue, with ineffective and clueless city councils as well as poor governance on a State level being guilty, as well. And part of the problem is the Hispanic community itself, which so far hasn't been able to address or deal with the problems themselves. As the Hispanic population increases in California, the more eminent these issues will become. Unless appropriate legal measures are taken, no matter on what level. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 19 June 2019 Share Posted 19 June 2019 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48687356 Never apologise, even if you were wrong. And only rarely explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SO1 Posted 19 June 2019 Share Posted 19 June 2019 24 minutes ago, leicsmac said: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48687356 Never apologise, even if you were wrong. And only rarely explain. Don't you know? Our masters are never wrong.(sarc.) That's why their called elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 20 June 2019 Share Posted 20 June 2019 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48699663 ....somewhat mixed messages here? Of course, while this administration continues to neglect the future in favour of a quick buck now I guess her own personal view doesn't mean much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 20 June 2019 Share Posted 20 June 2019 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/19/nuclear-weapons-pentagon-us-military-doctrine This, however, is very clear. How stupid do you have to be to believe that a nuclear war is "winnable" even in this day and age? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopfkino Posted 20 June 2019 Share Posted 20 June 2019 (edited) So Iran shoot down a US drone (a serious bit of kit) and Trump responds saying it's hard to believe it was intentional and it was an individual gone rogue, added to him saying the attacks on tankers were very minor. Unsurprisingly it probably won't get the column inches from the fear mongers crying "war". Similarly, people seem to be missing pointing out that Iran is playing a risky but absolutely perfect strategic game. The danger comes from the fact diplomatic channels are closed (and there is the risk Iran gets its next moves wrong) but I'd say it won't be long before Trump rushes to sort a 'deal'. Could easily be wrong, hope not. Edited 20 June 2019 by Kopfkino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ithuriel Posted 20 June 2019 Share Posted 20 June 2019 7 minutes ago, Kopfkino said: So Iran shoot down a US drone (a serious bit of kit) and Trump responds saying it's hard to believe it was intentional and it was an individual gone rogue, added to him saying the attacks on tankers were very minor. Unsurprisingly it doesn't get the column inches from the fear mongers crying "war". Similarly, people seem to be missing pointing out that Iran is playing a risky but absolutely perfect strategic game. The danger comes from the fact diplomatic channels are closed (and there is the risk Iran gets its next moves wrong) but I'd say it won't be long before Trump rushes to sort a 'deal'. The problem with these type of games is that another player could suddenly invite themselves in to manipulate the situation to their own advantage and poof, another conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SO1 Posted 20 June 2019 Share Posted 20 June 2019 1 hour ago, ithuriel said: The problem with these type of games is that another player could suddenly invite themselves in to manipulate the situation to their own advantage and poof, another conflict. Israel perhaps? They seem to be happy to fight any war down to the last American Soldier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 21 June 2019 Share Posted 21 June 2019 6 hours ago, Kopfkino said: So Iran shoot down a US drone (a serious bit of kit) and Trump responds saying it's hard to believe it was intentional and it was an individual gone rogue, added to him saying the attacks on tankers were very minor. Unsurprisingly it probably won't get the column inches from the fear mongers crying "war". Similarly, people seem to be missing pointing out that Iran is playing a risky but absolutely perfect strategic game. The danger comes from the fact diplomatic channels are closed (and there is the risk Iran gets its next moves wrong) but I'd say it won't be long before Trump rushes to sort a 'deal'. Could easily be wrong, hope not. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48711229 More on this. I do hope you're right, and it's possible you are - FWIW people in general and some media outlets in particular need to do a better job of differentiating between Trump himself and his administration on this particular matter. For all his other manifold personal faults, it can probably be inferred through past actions that Trump himself isn't all that keen on the idea of a war with direct American involvement while he's in charge (though we'll see if that still holds true if his poll numbers drop further); however there are those in his administration (Bolton and Pompeo in particular) that are, and they're the ones really deserving of ire. WRT Iran, I can see where you're coming from here Kopf but I'm not sure any plan with this much risk could be considered "perfect", though I might be overestimating the amount of risk involved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebartonfox Posted 21 June 2019 Share Posted 21 June 2019 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48714414 Scary, but kind of good news. Terrifying that he seems to act on a whim even with ordering a strike to solve a precariously balanced situation, but thank God he either changed his mind or someone talked him out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopfkino Posted 21 June 2019 Share Posted 21 June 2019 9 hours ago, leicsmac said: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48711229 More on this. I do hope you're right, and it's possible you are - FWIW people in general and some media outlets in particular need to do a better job of differentiating between Trump himself and his administration on this particular matter. For all his other manifold personal faults, it can probably be inferred through past actions that Trump himself isn't all that keen on the idea of a war with direct American involvement while he's in charge (though we'll see if that still holds true if his poll numbers drop further); however there are those in his administration (Bolton and Pompeo in particular) that are, and they're the ones really deserving of ire. WRT Iran, I can see where you're coming from here Kopf but I'm not sure any plan with this much risk could be considered "perfect", though I might be overestimating the amount of risk involved. 1 hour ago, thebartonfox said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48714414 Scary, but kind of good news. Terrifying that he seems to act on a whim even with ordering a strike to solve a precariously balanced situation, but thank God he either changed his mind or someone talked him out of it. Tbf Mac, I have very little interest in US politics (my interest in this come from my ME interest) so I could easily underestimate how likely Pompeo and Bolton are to pushing Trump further towards war. Iran's strategy is on the edge but given the 'maximum pressure' on them they couldn't have done it better imo. The link above both shows I am underestimating the risk and that it seems Trump isn't keen on war given that he bottled it when everything was ready to go to strike. Right now it's up to France and Germany, less so the UK, to step in as the diplomatic channel to a resolution. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 21 June 2019 Share Posted 21 June 2019 1 minute ago, Kopfkino said: Tbf Mac, I have very little interest in US politics (my interest in this come from my ME interest) so I could easily underestimate how likely Pompeo and Bolton are to pushing Trump further towards war. Iran's strategy is on the edge but given the 'maximum pressure' on them they couldn't have done it better imo. The link above both shows I am underestimating the risk and that it seems Trump isn't keen on war given that he bottled it when everything was ready to go to strike. Right now it's up to France and Germany, less so the UK, to step in as the diplomatic channel to a resolution. I feel that Trump is so narcissistic that he'll do anything to make himself appear successful. Personally he wants to push Iran to the brink like North Korea then open the door to make himself look like some peace-brokering maverick, do not be surprised to see Trump, Rouhani and maybe even Netanyahu in the same room together in the next twelve months. Unfortunately Bolton and Pompeo are war-mongering psychopaths who should be as far away from power as possible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SO1 Posted 21 June 2019 Share Posted 21 June 2019 (edited) Why would Iran trust anyone in NATO. NATO is the lap dog of the US. Iran will get all the sanctions eliminated or the middle east will burn. It seems the Houthis have been re armed by Iran and are attacking Saudi at will. Doing serious damage to Airports, Oil infrastructure and threats to Water desalination plants. Trump has lost and Iran joining Russia and China is a masterstroke. I could care less what happened last night. My country needs to get out of the rest of the world and start solving problems at home. No more wars for the evil rich. Edited 21 June 2019 by SO1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SO1 Posted 21 June 2019 Share Posted 21 June 2019 1 hour ago, Lionator said: I feel that Trump is so narcissistic that he'll do anything to make himself appear successful. Personally he wants to push Iran to the brink like North Korea then open the door to make himself look like some peace-brokering maverick, do not be surprised to see Trump, Rouhani and maybe even Netanyahu in the same room together in the next twelve months. Unfortunately Bolton and Pompeo are war-mongering psychopaths who should be as far away from power as possible. Netanyahu. A war mongering psychopath from the apartheid state of Israel. I feel sorry for the people of that nation. As the USA falls apart we will be unable to continue to provide protection and they will have to fend for themselves. Israel needs to start acting out of Love instead of Fear. Learning to live with their neighbors instead of murdering, imprisoning and enslaving them. Sick of watching the Israelis self destruct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 21 June 2019 Share Posted 21 June 2019 ....On Monday they shot down an unmanned drone flying in International Waters. We were cocked & loaded to retaliate last night on 3 different sights when I asked, how many will die. 150 people, sir, was the answer from a General. 10 minutes before the strike I stopped it, not.... — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 21, 2019 The man with the huge IQ strikes again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 21 June 2019 Share Posted 21 June 2019 2 minutes ago, Buce said: ....On Monday they shot down an unmanned drone flying in International Waters. We were cocked & loaded to retaliate last night on 3 different sights when I asked, how many will die. 150 people, sir, was the answer from a General. 10 minutes before the strike I stopped it, not.... — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 21, 2019 The man with the huge IQ strikes again... So he ordered an expensive military operation in retaliation for the shooting down of an unmanned drone before he had all the Intel, and stopped it minutes before once he had the info. So a crisis was saved last minute by the man who created it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 21 June 2019 Share Posted 21 June 2019 3 minutes ago, Facecloth said: So he ordered an expensive military operation in retaliation for the shooting down of an unmanned drone before he had all the Intel, and stopped it minutes before once he had the info. So a crisis was saved last minute by the man who created it. As was said in the other news thread, an arsonist who puts out the fire he helped start. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 21 June 2019 Share Posted 21 June 2019 So who do we think's telling porkies about where the drone was shot down? I'm mostly inclined to believe it's Iran but it's hardly unimaginable that the USA would try sneaking a drone into Iranian territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlloverthefloorYesNdidi Posted 21 June 2019 Share Posted 21 June 2019 Obama wouldnt have stopped it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 21 June 2019 Share Posted 21 June 2019 15 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said: Obama wouldnt have stopped it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopfkino Posted 21 June 2019 Share Posted 21 June 2019 1 hour ago, Facecloth said: So he ordered an expensive military operation in retaliation for the shooting down of an unmanned drone before he had all the Intel, and stopped it minutes before once he had the info. So a crisis was saved last minute by the man who created it. He doesn't have to be telling the truth as a counter. Of course it could well have been bumbling idiocy. But he reportedly sent a message via Oman that the US would strike unless Rouhani entered talks. Entirely in keeping with the Trump strategy for anything which is making deals. And when Iran called his bluff he stopped the attack because it was all a game and he doesn't want military conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SO1 Posted 21 June 2019 Share Posted 21 June 2019 1 hour ago, Kopfkino said: He doesn't have to be telling the truth as a counter. Of course it could well have been bumbling idiocy. But he reportedly sent a message via Oman that the US would strike unless Rouhani entered talks. Entirely in keeping with the Trump strategy for anything which is making deals. And when Iran called his bluff he stopped the attack because it was all a game and he doesn't want military conflict. An interesting article that goes to the heart of the situation. https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2019/06/20/iran-goes-for-maximum-counter-pressure/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detroit Blues Posted 21 June 2019 Share Posted 21 June 2019 It seems like Trump's own administration is trying to lead him down a path of increasing conflict with Iran, with the hope that it will end up as a full-fledged war. A tried and true gameplan: Fly the drone a bit too close (or directly into) Iran's airspace. When Iran inevitably acts, advise Trump with options to strike back on some limited scale. Use physiological techniques to entice him into action. It reminds me of how JFK had to constantly reject his own generals' advice to strike first against Cuba / the Soviets during his time in office. I worry, how anyone would be able to do the job of the president, surrounded by corrupt politicians who have much to gain from a war, or even other non-politically affiliated, trust-worthy career military advisers who are a little to eager to solve political issues with military solutions. They say that when all you have is a hammer, all your problems look like nails. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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