A view from a non-supporter

[Shrews fan steps in]

32 minutes ago, Wookie said:

It's getting tiresome seeing fans of other clubs and the pundits telling us the actual fans of our team what to think. Everybody congratulated us for breaking the mould, we smashed the glass ceiling and now we should just meekly accept relegation because of sentiment and the overriding opinion is 'well that's your level'. It doesn't matter what's happened in the past when currently we're a completely dysfunctional football team, we can't defend and we definitely can't score - most of our fans could deal with relegation if were putting up a fight in close run games but instead we lose without troubling the opposition to the tune of two or three goals.

If you'd have been relegated with Ranieri last year would you have sacked him?  He was received very positively from memory and I'm guessing you'd have persevered with him to see if he could have got you back up.

 

The fact that he not only kept you up last year, but actually won you the title, has given you an expectation that wouldn't have been there a year before. It's a natural expectation of course, but there's no guarantee that somebody new would turn it around. I believe the players (and let's not forget they're at fault for your situation too) would've responded once they eventually realised what the situation was. Why do I believe that? Well, because they proved they have the fighting mentality in the Great Escape year and by fighting for the title last year. 

[Shrews fan steps in]

52 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

What is your opinion of Chic Bates?

A decent, talented chap, with a longstanding gripe against someone in the club (I won't say who!). I worked in the same organisation as him for a while and his dedication to the sport is second to none.

[Shrews fan steps in]

14 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Taking the time to register an account specifically to wind up a forum of football fans is exactly what a troll would do, yes.

 

 

I registered back in December and made a post supporting Ranieri then, If I really wanted to troll your forum, I would've taken the opportunity when we knocked you out of the League Cup 

[Finnegan]

1 minute ago, Shrews fan steps in said:

I registered back in December and made a post supporting Ranieri then, If I really wanted to troll your forum, I would've taken the opportunity when we knocked you out of the League Cup 

Mmhmmm

[Charl91]

58 minutes ago, Shrews fan steps in said:

If you'd have been relegated with Ranieri last year would you have sacked him?  

 

Depends on the manner in which we were relegated, but most likely yes, we would've.

 

I don't really understand the points you're making, to be honest. Yes, if you'd said "Would you rather win the title and get relegated next season, or retain premier league status", 100% of fans would choose the first one. But it's not an either-or situation. We didn't win the title with the stipulation that we have to get relegated next season.

 

The real choice (the choice that the owners have to make) is would you rather be guaranteed to go down with the current manager, or have a chance of staying up with a new manager. Most fans of the club would choose the second. I'm sure you would if you were in our situation as well - it's easy to say "I'd go down with the manager" when it's someone else's club you're talking about.

[Focks]

It looks like Leicester have blown the one chance we may ever have of consolidating a mid-table Prem finish for years to come.  I know what the OP is alluding to tho as 99% of clubs outside the top 4 would give their right arm for what we have achieved last year.

 

No-one really expected a top 4 finish this year but bottom 3 is obviously unacceptable.

 

That is why the owners acted and that is why the players responded as they did regarding the strange decisions that Ranieri was making.  

 

If we had been sitting in mid-table right now Ranieri would be sitting pretty.

[foxes_rule1978]

No away win, no league goal in 2017... 5 league defeats in a row, struggled to beat Derby in the Cup and then beaten by Millwall who had 10-men. No Ranieri wasn't going to turn that around, the players have let him down for sure but he also made some hugely questionable decisions tactically and with his team selections and subs. 

[Jattdogg]

Thanks for the view but if you actually watched our games then you'd see we were doomed. If we act on sentiment then businesses , clubs would fail often. If we finished second last year (also very remarkable for a club like us) none of you knob ends would have batted an eyelid on the topic. 

[Guest Bob Hazels shorts]

2 hours ago, Shrews fan steps in said:

Every club has poor spells, in fact, many have long spells of playing football badly.  But what's important is the memories of what you've achieved and how great that was. Not the downs of playing badly or even relegation, which we all quickly forget!

 

Leicester fans have never been glory hunters. otherwise they would never have chosen Leicester. Like most football clubs it's always been about enjoying the rollercoaster ride that it is football.

 

Poor football is a real downer but your basing that on what you achieved last year. It was always going to be difficult for the players and management to keep it going and to find the same momentum. But, given your players have shown they can fight over the last two seasons, I feel there was a good chance that eventually the players and management would've turned it around. I'm not sure the sacking is going to provide a positive outcome for you in the league or in the CL and the stain on the memory (alone) just means that, for me, it's a mistake. 

 

Born here therefore its my club. Not southern Manc's

[ZeGuy]

1 hour ago, Shrews fan steps in said:

I doubt whether any 'troll' would take the time to type a post like my original one on here. I'm just a fan of football mate, offering an opinion on why I don't think the sacking was a good decision. And quite frankly I've got better things to do than be a troll on a football messageboard. The bloody dog's been waiting for his walk for an hour!

 

I don't think you're trolling at all. But you have to understand that we grew tired of being constantly patronized by the medias and other club fans about what's right or wrong for us. Obviously you didn't watch us and how shit we are game in game out. There was absolutely no redeeming sign. Every week was worse than the former. He couldn't get it around and it had to stop. We didn't ask for winning the league again or even being for the top ten (although it could have been possible), just produce some decent performances, nothing more nothing less. We're currently the worst team of the league, the worst title defenders and England football's laughing stock. 

 

So thanks for your opinion, but no thanks. He had to go. End of. 

[Spudulike]

Thanks for your interest, Mr Shrew. However, whatever happens now or in the future will NOT leave a stain on the memories of 2015/16. Leicester City is engraved for ever more on the Premier League trophy.

 

The greatest football story ever and it happened at Leicester City.

[Leicester_Numan]

You talk of memories so how do you and the rest of the world wish to remember Ranieri?

As the man who performed a miracle and made us champions or the clown who tinkered with the club and took the champions down?

Ranieri now leaves the club with his reputation and all the respect for last season intact. And to be quite honest, we don't care if the rest of the world don't like it, the majority of fans of this club know we were getting worse game by game and he seemed completely incapable of turning it around. Clearly the owners thought so too and it's a decision they simply had to make, the only decision they could make at this point of the season.

My memory of last season will now never be tarnished by the memory of this one and neither will anyone elses in time.

[Leicester_Numan]

2 hours ago, Shrews fan steps in said:

And it might take you another 10 years to get back again, but surely the memory of last year is much more important than that? You achieved the unthinkable, probably the greatest sporting achievement of all time!

Would have been nice if the quote had worked first time

[4everfox]

2 hours ago, Shrews fan steps in said:

Every club has poor spells, in fact, many have long spells of playing football badly.  But what's important is the memories of what you've achieved and how great that was. Not the downs of playing badly or even relegation, which we all quickly forget!

 

Leicester fans have never been glory hunters. otherwise they would never have chosen Leicester. Like most football clubs it's always been about enjoying the rollercoaster ride that it is football.

 

Poor football is a real downer but your basing that on what you achieved last year. It was always going to be difficult for the players and management to keep it going and to find the same momentum. But, given your players have shown they can fight over the last two seasons, I feel there was a good chance that eventually the players and management would've turned it around. I'm not sure the sacking is going to provide a positive outcome for you in the league or in the CL and the stain on the memory (alone) just means that, for me, it's a mistake. 

 

Mate, your original post was refreshing when compared to some of the absolute garbage I've read elsewhere and heard coming from the lips of Paul Merson and Co. But what you and all of those others will never understand is that we watch every game, we read every article and we stalk every player and person associated with the club on social media. We have seen first hand what these players are capable of for four years and I can tell you now that the football we have been watching this season is the worst we have witnessed in all of those years and beyond. We know that there has been dressing room unrest for a number of months now and it has now came to an unfortunate point of no return for a man who is WORSHIPPED by Leicester fans. We love Claudio Ranieri more then any other football fans in the world and rightly so but what has transpired within the camp has creeped its way over the white lines at the King Power Stadium and we were in a position where the rot had become unstoppable under Ranieri's guidance. He had to go, it's the only way we can survive. And make no mistake we do want to survive, we shouldn't even be talking about surviving though and that's the part that people can't get their heads around. They just think we're little old Leicester who fluked the title and are now resuming back to normal. No! We are not! We are better then that, we are more ambitious then that. We are the Champions and we deserve the respect of Champions. I'm not saying for one second that I expected us to challenge for the title again but would I be being delusional if I revealed I had expected to finish 10th or 11th as a worst case scenario? This group of players (minus Kante) have proven they are good enough to be the best in the country. You see, you people can never understand any of this properly because you didn't cry when we were relegated to League One, you didn't cry when Andrea Bocelli stood in the centre circle and serenaded 30,000 Leicester fans and you weren't there when Wycombe Wanderers beat us the FA Cup in 2001, what followed was football that was nearly as bad as what we have seen this season for about 8 years. We have seen it all mate, you people watch but you don't see like we do. And that is relevant to every football clubs fan base in the world. Our owners have made the right decision and I support the players 100% if they complained to the chairman because they care for the club. 

[Thracian]

At one stage close to 90% of fans on here were voting for Ranieri to go so I'm surprised there's any lasting debate on the matter.

My only regret about the owners' decision is leaving it so late and letting our points-in-hand evaporate.

Ranieri talks about his "dream" but the loss of that dream has been his own fault.

We've not suddenly fallen apart. The seeds of disaster were being sewn from the close season onwards and have grown steadily up to and beyond the January transfer window.

We - owners, manager, players, coaches and fans - have excused so much in the blind faith that relegation couldn't or wouldn't happen to our champions but the faith was like straw in a barn fire. It had no worthwhile substance and the flames of our destruction just gathered momentum.

Anyone shackling themselves with sentiment, or blind faith, in management is on a loser.

Past successes and the good decisions that allowed them to come about, don't matter. The only decision that matters - like the only match - is the next one. And we couldn't even get that basic principle right. I just hope we're focused properly again now.            

 

[broughtonblue]

3 hours ago, Shrews fan steps in said:

Apols, this is not meant to be a post that rubs salt into the wounds of your current predicament which appears to be one of the most divisive things I've seen in football regarding a single person. However, some of you may be interested in the views of a non-Leicester supporter. If not, then probably best not to read on!

 

Firstly, once again, congratulations on on your Premiership victory last year. The greatest footballing, if not sporting, achievement of all time. A victory that the wider sporting world on a truly global scale wanted to happen and were genuinely happy, if not ecstatic, for the fans, management and connections of Leicester City. The magnitude of the victory, in a division dominated by money since its creation, is just staggering. A club who (with respect), have traditionally been a level 1/level 2 yo-yo club (in my 50 years on the planet) and who in its previous season had battled relegation.  I repeat, the magnitude was staggering. A once in a lifetime occurrence, perhaps only eclipsed by a Champions League victory at the first attempt.

 

Nigel Pearson was the manager who formed the basis of a team who proved they could fight themselves out of relegation. Whether he would have gone on to scale the same heights with the team that Claudio Ranieri did is debatable. Maybe, but personally under Pearson I think you'd have stayed in the division last year and quite likely with some further improvement. However, I doubt you'd have won the league. To do that, it needed something special.

 

Step forward Claudio Ranieri, the Tinkerman who at Leicester didn't have a great deal to tinker with. He managed to achieve the unthinkable. The greatest achievement in your club's 133 years history and quite likely the greatest your club will ever achieve. I doubt whether many (any?) manager's in the game could have moulded, motivated and focused a team of players to keep going, game-by-game, to its ultimate end. So many managers would have buckled under the strain, lost the plot, chewed their nails and ultimately made the wrong decisions. Ranieri didn't and for that he has been labelled, quite rightly, a footballing management genius.

 

Geniuses do not lose their genius overnight. It is always there. 

 

Nine months later, he is back to where Pearson was. But the fans, club and whole footballing world are expecting something better. Nobody is expecting another Premiership victory, but somewhere at the top is surely realistic. Outside of the top ten is surely a disappointment. The genius is sacked by the board.

 

What went wrong I have no idea, but what I do know is this.  Claudio Ranieri gave the current Leicester fans the greatest memories a Leicester fan will probably ever have. He wove a tale that will become legend and if football continues as a sport, even in a 1000 years this will never be forgotten. One day, it may be done again and the tale of Ranieri's Leicester will be resurrected. All fans of football in the future will wonder in awe of how great it must have been to be a Leicester fan in 2016/17.

 

Unfortunately, the ending to the story sullies those memories somewhat. When people of the future talk about this achievement, the sacking, no doubt, will also be included. I believe that's a massive shame. And all for what?  Staying in The Premiership? Becoming a top ten side for a decade? In the history of your club those two achievements will mean very little compared to your victory in 2016. The future generations of supporter won't be too fussed about that.

 

I believe Ranieri would have kept you up. I believe the fighting spirit of the players would have eventually kicked in, even if right at the death. You have much better players than your relegation rivals. I don't know who is going to galvanise these players now. It's a much harder task for a new manager who doesn't know the players or the playing style and there really isn't that much longer left. I also think it's more difficult for you to progress in the CL now Ranieri is gone. I believe you may well have got a result at the King Power against Seville and this success may have kick-started the fighting mentality of the players. But now, under a new manager, I am less confident.

 

Even if relegated, the memory of last year would not have been sullied and the victory would've be there for future generations to enjoy and wonder over. But the sacking, for me, leaves a dirty stain on what should have been the greatest memories. And for that I feel genuinely sorry for the fans of the club who saw that Ranieri should've meant more to Leicester City and its future other than just big business and staying in the top flight.

 

For one, I hope that you don't go down like some other ffans do. I hope you stay up, and more than anything I hope you shock the world again by winning the Champions League. I believe by doing so, you will keep the great memories of last year alive and the sacking will become just part of the tale, rather than the thing that accompanies the greatest achievement in your history.

 

Sadly, however I believe the sacking of Ranieri has been a massive mistake.

Absolutely spot on. As a season ticket holder and fan for over 40 years I couldn't have put it better myself 

[Gerard]

It's almost like the world thinks we sit at home watching our 2015/16 DVD rather than watching or caring what our team does in the present.

[Blarmy]

3 hours ago, Shrews fan steps in said:

And it might take you another 10 years to get back again, but surely the memory of last year is much more important than that? You achieved the unthinkable, probably the greatest sporting achievement of all time!

 

What does the memories of last year have to do with the ten?  They will coexist, they aren't mutually exclusive. 

[smudger63]

3 hours ago, Walkers said:

Not meaning to be rude but out of the seven words I read properly

 

"Ranieri is back to where Pearson was"

 

Position wise yes. Performances though are absolutely dire under Ranieri in this position than it ever was with Pearson

That`s your opinion, but my memory remembers it differently.

We were absolutely dire for  much of that season under Pearson, playing negative stay in the game tactics.

I remember Swansea away, which was 10 times worse than the Swansea game the other week, i remember Southampton away, when we had one shot in the game, and that shot in the 90th minute, i remember what we thought was a crunch game at home to Hull, when we drew 0-0 against 10 men.

People go on about how we never got hammered that season, but that`s because of our negative stay in the game tactics, and how many of those games that we stayed in did we win?

We only started getting results when it was shit or bust time, when Pearson knew that we had to get wins, and his negative stay in the game tactics were going to get us relegated.

Three quarters of that season was every bit as dire as this season, in fact we are actually 4 points better off than that season at the same stage.

People can say that the players were still behind Pearson at that time, but we were still not looking any more like staying up than we currently do, and yet Pearson was given until the end of the season to turn things round, and yet a man that presided over the greatest achievement in our history, was not given that opportunity.

 

[Kitchandro]

3 hours ago, Shrews fan steps in said:

Unfortunately, the ending to the story sullies those memories somewhat. When people of the future talk about this achievement, the sacking, no doubt, will also be included. I believe that's a massive shame. And all for what?  Staying in The Premiership? Becoming a top ten side for a decade? In the history of your club those two achievements will mean very little compared to your victory in 2016. The future generations of supporter won't be too fussed about that.

 

I believe Ranieri would have kept you up. I believe the fighting spirit of the players would have eventually kicked in, even if right at the death. You have much better players than your relegation rivals. I don't know who is going to galvanise these players now. It's a much harder task for a new manager who doesn't know the players or the playing style and there really isn't that much longer left. I also think it's more difficult for you to progress in the CL now Ranieri is gone. I believe you may well have got a result at the King Power against Seville and this success may have kick-started the fighting mentality of the players. But now, under a new manager, I am less confident.

 

Even if relegated, the memory of last year would not have been sullied and the victory would've be there for future generations to enjoy and wonder over. But the sacking, for me, leaves a dirty stain on what should have been the greatest memories. And for that I feel genuinely sorry for the fans of the club who saw that Ranieri should've meant more to Leicester City and its future other than just big business and staying in the top flight.

Sadly, however I believe the sacking of Ranieri has been a massive mistake.

I've been very torn by this decision. Part of me is angry at the players for letting it happen and desperately sad that we sacked him, he brought me so much joy and we'll never have a manager who could have us scale such heights again. Like him, my dream died. But then the other part of me could see things were getting worse and there was no realistic hope of us staying up without a change. Anyone who's watched our games would see that, I'm afraid.

 

What grates me about the sacking is that the club publicly backed him less than 3 weeks ago. It's bad form to be so two-faced.

 

But you're wrong that relegation wouldn't stain the story. For us of course it would. I agree sacking Claudio has done so as well but you can't tell a group of fans to just accept relegation. I'm surprised that you, a Shrewsbury fan, would be so flippant about that possibility, you must know how horrible it is to go down, as well as being subjected to so many awful performances. It's not just sullying the story, it could spell years of turmoil for us. When the media and other teams fans like you stop caring about us, our story will still continue, because the club doesn't just cease to exist for us when we're no longer in the limelight (I hope!).

 

We'll still have to deal with the shit football, the humbling defeats and the ignominy of just being another club nobody cares about or fears. I hated not being relevant, I'd rather be despised. Maybe we stop being the top East Midlands club, and after a couple of years getting our own back on little Forest & Derby after all the stick we've had from them in the past for achieving nothing, that won't be fun either.

 

And we'd still have to live with 'yeh but you got relegated the season after' or 'you were lucky and fluked it'. In fact, we'll have to deal with the second one regardless.

 

This is the problem, people aren't thinking about it from Leicester's point of view, they're living in their own world where they have built up this amazing story that inspired people and sold papers. They, and you, don't care about our club and so can't possibly fairly judge whether this was the right decision or not.

 

 

[Brakey]

3 hours ago, Charl91 said:

There's a common denominator in most of the people who think sacking Ranieri was a huge mistake.

 

They haven't watched most of our games this season.

Why was Claudio playing in them? 

[Kitchandro]

2 hours ago, Shrews fan steps in said:

If you'd have been relegated with Ranieri last year would you have sacked him?  He was received very positively from memory and I'm guessing you'd have persevered with him to see if he could have got you back up.

 

The fact that he not only kept you up last year, but actually won you the title, has given you an expectation that wouldn't have been there a year before. It's a natural expectation of course, but there's no guarantee that somebody new would turn it around. I believe the players (and let's not forget they're at fault for your situation too) would've responded once they eventually realised what the situation was. Why do I believe that? Well, because they proved they have the fighting mentality in the Great Escape year and by fighting for the title last year. 

Pal, of they had any fighting spirit they'd have shown it by now. Frankly, I was disgusted this group of players was bottom under Pearson, that's before expectations were changed by winning the title. We had a good side.

 

We'll see in the coming weeks whether they didn't try on purpose to undermine Ranieri or whether they just do not give two shits if we go down.

 

Of course we'd have sacked him if we went down last year, it would have been massive underachievement. People go overboard with all this 'miracle' talk, we have some very talented players here and a good balance. It was miraculous they won the league in many ways but they should never have been anywhere near relegation, and the only reason they are is because they've downed tools and have, regrettably, to some extent been mismanaged.

[norwichfox]

3 hours ago, Shrews fan steps in said:

Sadly, however I believe the sacking of Ranieri has been a massive mistake.

Our "yo-yo" club got massive media attention last season and, as such, a lot of admiration was won by people who are not supporters of this football club, but as others have said, you need to have watched the minutes of each game this season to understand our plight . It unfolded in a manner that is akin to watching Park football on a Sunday, starting with a defeat to a team that could hardly scrape a team together and spiralled downwards since. Now those people that were dragged along are poking their noses into something that really has nothing to do with them or the clubs they choose to support.

 

As a fan of around 60 years I felt that it simply should not be allowed to continue both from a fan's point of view and a cold, hard headed business point of view. Those people that got dragged along by the magnetic pull of of our magic season need to have supported Leicester City for a number of years to understand what it really meant to us, and why we don't want to become the laughing stock of the Nation (and beyond) by relegation as Champions. We have to look at the sacking of Ranieri as giving the fans a chance to continue to enjoy top flight football, we really don't want to wait another ten  years or so before we can enjoy that again.

 

p.s. what was it you stepped in?

[yorkie1999]

What I would like to know from the fans of these other clubs is , would they take him as their manager now.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

4 hours ago, Shrews fan steps in said:

Apols, this is not meant to be a post that rubs salt into the wounds of your current predicament which appears to be one of the most divisive things I've seen in football regarding a single person. However, some of you may be interested in the views of a non-Leicester supporter. If not, then probably best not to read on!

 

Firstly, once again, congratulations on on your Premiership victory last year. The greatest footballing, if not sporting, achievement of all time. A victory that the wider sporting world on a truly global scale wanted to happen and were genuinely happy, if not ecstatic, for the fans, management and connections of Leicester City. The magnitude of the victory, in a division dominated by money since its creation, is just staggering. A club who (with respect), have traditionally been a level 1/level 2 yo-yo club (in my 50 years on the planet) and who in its previous season had battled relegation.  I repeat, the magnitude was staggering. A once in a lifetime occurrence, perhaps only eclipsed by a Champions League victory at the first attempt.

 

Nigel Pearson was the manager who formed the basis of a team who proved they could fight themselves out of relegation. Whether he would have gone on to scale the same heights with the team that Claudio Ranieri did is debatable. Maybe, but personally under Pearson I think you'd have stayed in the division last year and quite likely with some further improvement. However, I doubt you'd have won the league. To do that, it needed something special.

 

Step forward Claudio Ranieri, the Tinkerman who at Leicester didn't have a great deal to tinker with. He managed to achieve the unthinkable. The greatest achievement in your club's 133 years history and quite likely the greatest your club will ever achieve. I doubt whether many (any?) manager's in the game could have moulded, motivated and focused a team of players to keep going, game-by-game, to its ultimate end. So many managers would have buckled under the strain, lost the plot, chewed their nails and ultimately made the wrong decisions. Ranieri didn't and for that he has been labelled, quite rightly, a footballing management genius.

 

Geniuses do not lose their genius overnight. It is always there. 

 

Nine months later, he is back to where Pearson was. But the fans, club and whole footballing world are expecting something better. Nobody is expecting another Premiership victory, but somewhere at the top is surely realistic. Outside of the top ten is surely a disappointment. The genius is sacked by the board.

 

What went wrong I have no idea, but what I do know is this.  Claudio Ranieri gave the current Leicester fans the greatest memories a Leicester fan will probably ever have. He wove a tale that will become legend and if football continues as a sport, even in a 1000 years this will never be forgotten. One day, it may be done again and the tale of Ranieri's Leicester will be resurrected. All fans of football in the future will wonder in awe of how great it must have been to be a Leicester fan in 2016/17.

 

Unfortunately, the ending to the story sullies those memories somewhat. When people of the future talk about this achievement, the sacking, no doubt, will also be included. I believe that's a massive shame. And all for what?  Staying in The Premiership? Becoming a top ten side for a decade? In the history of your club those two achievements will mean very little compared to your victory in 2016. The future generations of supporter won't be too fussed about that.

 

I believe Ranieri would have kept you up. I believe the fighting spirit of the players would have eventually kicked in, even if right at the death. You have much better players than your relegation rivals. I don't know who is going to galvanise these players now. It's a much harder task for a new manager who doesn't know the players or the playing style and there really isn't that much longer left. I also think it's more difficult for you to progress in the CL now Ranieri is gone. I believe you may well have got a result at the King Power against Seville and this success may have kick-started the fighting mentality of the players. But now, under a new manager, I am less confident.

 

Even if relegated, the memory of last year would not have been sullied and the victory would've be there for future generations to enjoy and wonder over. But the sacking, for me, leaves a dirty stain on what should have been the greatest memories. And for that I feel genuinely sorry for the fans of the club who saw that Ranieri should've meant more to Leicester City and its future other than just big business and staying in the top flight.

 

For one, I hope that you don't go down like some other ffans do. I hope you stay up, and more than anything I hope you shock the world again by winning the Champions League. I believe by doing so, you will keep the great memories of last year alive and the sacking will become just part of the tale, rather than the thing that accompanies the greatest achievement in your history.

 

Sadly, however I believe the sacking of Ranieri has been a massive mistake.

Good post, and accurate imo.