General Election, June 8th

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, sphericalfox said:

It's not a suspicion. It's laid out in black and white in Lansley's paper. Oliver Letwin spelled it out.

Oh, I know. This government claim to be centre right but they are pretty much what the far right (minus the direct racism - in most cases) would have been 20/30/40 years ago. Even Thatcher wouldn't have tried to sell off the NHS and schools. 

[Kopfkino]

26 minutes ago, toddybad said:

And I'll add that the debt is relatively immaterial. The government can create money at any time of its choosing as we are masters of our own currency. Whilst creating large sums does risk inflation, if it had been done two or three years ago they could have cleared half the nation's debt with the money given to the banks with the same zero impact on inflation. 

In terms of deficit, governments historically have borrowed as inflation means that the amount aid back is worth less than the amount borrowed, and with interest costs on top it is still relatively low cost. This is why governments across the globe have run deficits for decades. It isn't one fixed amount which has to be paid back on date x, it's a series of tiny loans each paid back in series. The problem is that deficits got used to cover normal expenditure rather than capital projects. 

If we want to reduce the deficit we need to increase growth. The only way to do this is to inject finance into the real economy. Cutting means that less money is being put into the real economy - people's wages, business profits etc - and so tax takes will keep going down as spending power is reduced. 

 

 

This couldn't be anymore wrong. For a start the BoE and MPC is independent of government so the government can't 'create' money, the BoE. As for the rest, well I'm thankful nobody anywhere near the situation believes this should be done.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, KingGTF said:

 

This couldn't be anymore wrong. For a start the BoE and MPC is independent of government so the government can't 'create' money, the BoE. As for the rest, well I'm thankful nobody anywhere near the situation believes this should be done.

So the government didn't make the decision to apply quantative easing and hand the banks £800m? Whilst Threadneedle Street is independent, those decisions are definately not made by them. 

 

Your second point makes no sense - i outlined how deficit decisions have been made in the past and simply suggested that growth would be a better method of deficit reduction than cuts.

[Kopfkino]

2 minutes ago, toddybad said:

So the government didn't make the decision to apply quantative easing and hand the banks £800m? Whilst Threadneedle Street is independent, those decisions are definately not made by them. 

 

Your second point makes no sense - i outlined how deficit decisions have been made in the past and simply suggested that growth would be a better method of deficit reduction than cuts.

 

The government simply doesn't make that decision, its a monetary policy decision which is decided by the MPC. If you don't know this then it's a waste of time going through the mechanisms.

 

I didn't even read the rest of your post, was too bemused by the fact anyone thinks that money creation to pay off the deficit is a good idea.

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, KingGTF said:

 

The government simply doesn't make that decision, its a monetary policy decision which is decided by the MPC. If you don't know this then it's a waste of time going through the mechanisms.

 

I didn't even read the rest of your post, was too bemused by the fact anyone thinks that money creation to pay off the deficit is a good idea.

We owe 1.5 trillian. I clearly don't think we should repay that amount. 

 

The MPC did not decide to give banks £800m. That was a political decision made by gordon brown. The mpc may have those levers but a decision that big is not one they would be making. 

[Guest MattP]

1 hour ago, toddybad said:

The suspicion has always been that this is exactly what they want. 

 

1 hour ago, toddybad said:

And I'll add that the debt is relatively immaterial. The government can create money at any time of its choosing as we are masters of our own currency. Whilst creating large sums does risk inflation, if it had been done two or three years ago they could have cleared half the nation's debt with the money given to the banks with the same zero impact on inflation. 

In terms of deficit, governments historically have borrowed as inflation means that the amount aid back is worth less than the amount borrowed, and with interest costs on top it is still relatively low cost. This is why governments across the globe have run deficits for decades. It isn't one fixed amount which has to be paid back on date x, it's a series of tiny loans each paid back in series. The problem is that deficits got used to cover normal expenditure rather than capital projects. 

If we want to reduce the deficit we need to increase growth. The only way to do this is to inject finance into the real economy. Cutting means that less money is being put into the real economy - people's wages, business profits etc - and so tax takes will keep going down as spending power is reduced. 

 

I can't believe you have actually written this out, I dont know where to start with it, you are proposing pretty much exact same economic theory and idea that Robert Mugabe tried in Zimbabwe, don't worry about debt and inflation, we'll just print more money.

 

Thank God you work in the NHS and aren't anywhere near the treasury.

 

Don't tell me? 5 weeks to save it again?!

 

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, MattP said:

 

I can't believe you have actually written this out, I dont know where to start with it, you are proposing pretty much exact same economic theory and idea that Robert Mugabe tried in Zimbabwe, don't worry about debt and inflation, we'll just print more money.

 

Thank God you work in the NHS and aren't anywhere near the treasury.

 

Don't tell me? 5 weeks to save it again?!

 

1

Re: the NHS - highlighting just how often seeming threat has been made is fair, but at the end of the Boy Who Cried Wolf...the wolf does in fact come.

[Sharpe's Fox]

If anyone wants a reason to cut themselves this afternoon

 

 

[Buce]

6 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

If anyone wants a reason to cut themselves this afternoon

 

 

 

 

[Carl the Llama]

Phwoar look at them pins. I'd give 'er a mandate oi oi.

[Buce]

7 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Phwoar look at them pins. I'd give 'er a mandate oi oi.

 

[Sharpe's Fox]

11 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Phwoar look at them pins. I'd give 'er a mandate oi oi.

They've got nothing on these

 

[sphericalfox]

6 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

They've got nothing on these

 

Strong and stable calves.

[Strokes]

9 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

They've got nothing on these

 

Wearing Nike, what a sell out.

[Buce]

14 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Wearing Nike, what a sell out.

 

Nah.

 

Bought them in a charity shop.

[Strokes]

8 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Nah.

 

Bought them in a charity shop.

Might explain the look on his face, they are the wrong size.

[Kopfkino]

1 hour ago, toddybad said:

We owe 1.5 trillian. I clearly don't think we should repay that amount. 

 

The MPC did not decide to give banks £800m. That was a political decision made by gordon brown. The mpc may have those levers but a decision that big is not one they would be making. 

 

What are you on about? What £800m was given to the banks? Are you on about bailouts but that was much bigger than £800m? And in any case obviously the MPC didn't decide to bailout the banks but that's nothing to do with your original point on money creation. Bank bailouts and the BoE buying bonds are completely different things.

 

MattP is thankful you work in the NHS, to me its no wonder its going to complete shit if people like you get to discuss financial challenges

[Guest MattP]

30 minutes ago, KingGTF said:

MattP is thankful you work in the NHS, to me its no wonder its going to complete shit if people like you get to discuss financial challenges

Fair point.

[sphericalfox]

1 hour ago, KingGTF said:

 

What are you on about? What £800m was given to the banks? Are you on about bailouts but that was much bigger than £800m? And in any case obviously the MPC didn't decide to bailout the banks but that's nothing to do with your original point on money creation. Bank bailouts and the BoE buying bonds are completely different things.

 

MattP is thankful you work in the NHS, to me its no wonder its going to complete shit if people like you get to discuss financial challenges

What exactly do you know about the NHS? I assume from your posting pedestal you work in banking?

[Kopfkino]

2 minutes ago, sphericalfox said:

What exactly do you know about the NHS? I assume from your posting pedestal you work in banking?

 

Having little knowledge or expertise of complex things doesn't stop most people on here talking complete shit so I don't see why I can't do similar for the NHS. I have family that work in it, I have my own personal dealings (fairly negative) and any other information source that we all have access too.

 

No I don't, just a hyped up student with no clue how the real world works. I'll be interning at McKinsey in the summer, not quite banking

[sphericalfox]

2 minutes ago, KingGTF said:

 

Having little knowledge or expertise of complex things doesn't stop most people on here talking complete shit so I don't see why I can't do similar for the NHS. I have family that work in it, I have my own personal dealings (fairly negative) and any other information source that we all have access too.

 

No I don't, just a hyped up student with no clue how the real world works. I'll be interning at McKinsey in the summer, not quite banking

Pretty sure most people have someone in their family or a friend who works in the NHS, it's a pretty large entity. I suppose they'll be able to give you an insight, you can utilise your own negative dealings, and also incorporate some of those who have significant knowledge of the NHS financials to be informed.

 

Making narky shitty comments on someone and then generalising why the NHS is the way it is pretty immature, but your last comment probably isn't far from the truth.

 

Given McKinsey has had some significant contracts off the NHS, with considerable controversy may I add, you'll probably get an insight into why the NHS is suffering financially, especially as the COI linking said company with the current government makes for very uncomfortable reading.

[Strokes]

1 hour ago, sphericalfox said:

 

 

Making narky shitty comments on someone

Get your tanks off his lawn @KingGTF

[sphericalfox]

4 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Get your tanks off his lawn @KingGTF

Huh? This lad says the NHS is shit, and is going to work for McKinsey who helped orchestrate Lansley's paper.  I'm sure he already knows that. No battle to be won here.

[Guest MattP]

33 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Get your tanks off his lawn @KingGTF

[Guest]

Tbf the way I've written my comments doesn't help. I was trying to explain that a deficit isn't the end of the world, not advocating that we repay 1.5tril through money creation. It should be noted that the deficit was 40% throughout the labour years until the crash and it is that crash which produced the huge deficit. The uk economy grew at 3.1% in the last year of the labour government, despite the huge turmoil at the time, and hasn't grown as quickly at any point since due to the slash and burn policies of the tories.