Manchester Arena blast

[Benguin]

2 minutes ago, Merging Cultures said:

It can only be done by reducing poverty and increasing education (especially for women and girls), which requires the cooperation of political leaders, which is why it doesn't happen. They use the poor and uneducated to get into and stay in 'power'.

 

The initial reaction isn't to give more (or love more), it's to take the same approach as Jiggs. Which not only serves to placate the angry and scared in the country that has been attacked, but helps the political and religious leaders who are keeping their people down for their own gain.

 

We need to reduce inequality and increase education, in the UK and elsewhere.

I'm sorry but a large amount of terrorists, as far as those that commit acts in the western world are concerned, are more often from families of wealth and education.

[CockneyFox]

3 minutes ago, foxfanazer said:

Has anyone ever read a decent, suggestion on how to deal with these ever increasing terror attacks? 

 

There must be something we can do or at least get the ball rolling in minimising the threat. And bomb all the Muslims isn't what I'm looking for

We already do, via the work of MI5 and the security services. Their work in detecting threats before they become real / imminent is invaluable and I'd wager they prevent many atrocities similar to this, we just never hear about them for obvious reasons.

 

Best prevention is the eyes and ears of 60m people across the land, reporting anything suspicious no matter how big or small.

[Innovindil]

3 minutes ago, Merging Cultures said:

It can only be done by reducing poverty and increasing education (especially for women and girls), which requires the cooperation of political leaders, which is why it doesn't happen. They use the poor and uneducated to get into and stay in 'power'.

 

The initial reaction isn't to give more (or love more), it's to take the same approach as Jiggs. Which not only serves to placate the angry and scared in the country that has been attacked, but helps the political and religious leaders who are keeping their people down for their own gain.

 

We need to reduce inequality and increase education, in the UK and elsewhere.

What sort of horse shit is this? The guy that attacked London and stabbed that officer was a sodding teacher with a high level of education wasn't he? 

 

He wasn't poor or uneducated so what was his excuse for being a terrorist scumbag? 

[foxfanazer]

1 minute ago, CockneyFox said:

We already do, via the work of MI5 and the security services. Their work in detecting threats before they become real / imminent is invaluable and I'd wager they prevent many atrocities similar to this, we just never hear about them for obvious reasons.

 

Best prevention is the eyes and ears of 60m people across the land, reporting anything suspicious no matter how big or small.

Sorry I didn't mean the attacks themselves as such. I mean the people committing the atrocities 

 

I agree that they do a great job 

[Merging Cultures]

1 minute ago, foxfanazer said:

Interesting point. Are we too late now though? 

I don't think so.

 

The challenge is changing the mindsets of the leaders. In my opinion, the wrong tactic is to kill them and/or arm a different faction or their opposition. We need to empower Islamic charities, have them lead the redevelopment of the countries and communities. It's a long term plan, but it will be more effective.

[Finnaldo]

I can't understand why people fight to get the first opinion in. Right now we're trying to reason with conjecture and guesswork. Until the concrete facts are in I shan't be posting on this subject, I suggest those who are inclined to be passionate about these things do the same.

 

Regardless, it's a terrible tragedy, children in the list makes it all the worse. Truly hits home when it's on British soil.

[lgfualol]

8 minutes ago, foxfanazer said:

Has anyone ever read a decent, suggestion on how to deal with these ever increasing terror attacks? 

 

There must be something we can do or at least get the ball rolling in minimising the threat. And bomb all the Muslims isn't what I'm looking for

Not a lot really, other than education and trying to stop these shite extremist views from spreading in mosques, schools and prisons. Most terrorists are 2nd or 3rd generation so it is tricky. 

 

Perhaps also stop doing big reports on these terrorists in the news. Focus on the victims and don't give them any time, don't even say their name. These losers want to be remembered and made into a martyr, the media just help their cause. 

 

On the extreme side, considering this whole Wahhabism shit comes from Saudi Arabia perhaps we should stop being best mates with them. 

[foxfanazer]

Got my assessment today for prison officer job. The prison in question has a 47% Muslim population and is known for holding radicals. Not feeling it at all today 

[Buce]

 

The cat is out of the bag as far as prevention in the short term is concerned.

 

In the long term, avoiding starting illegal wars and bombing other nations would be a good start.

[theessexfox]

12 minutes ago, foxfanazer said:

Border control and deportation? I accept that this would be really difficult or maybe even impossible. I just don't see how this ends, it's hard enough being at war with other countries but when it's people already integrated in our society we're fighting an invisible enemy with no fear of repercussion 

How you gonna deport the English-born terrorist who perpetrated the attack on Westminster Bridge? 

[Guest MattP]

8 minutes ago, Merging Cultures said:

It can only be done by reducing poverty and increasing education (especially for women and girls), which requires the cooperation of political leaders, which is why it doesn't happen. They use the poor and uneducated to get into and stay in 'power'.

 

The initial reaction isn't to give more (or love more), it's to take the same approach as Jiggs. Which not only serves to placate the angry and scared in the country that has been attacked, but helps the political and religious leaders who are keeping their people down for their own gain.

 

We need to reduce inequality and increase education, in the UK and elsewhere.

Unfortunately this is a myth spouted too often, most of the people who joined Islamic State were actually were educated to at least secondary level and many went to university, the tragedy of the three young 16 year old girls was they were all straight A students. There is a lot of evidence they attract the bright and the wealthy.

 

The amount of times this stuff is churned out by politicians gives me zero confidence they have any idea how to deal with this, or in reality even know what they are dealing with,

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/05/islamic-state-recruits-world-bank-study-education-boko-haram

Quote

 

Recruits to Islamic militant groups are likely to be well educated and relatively wealthy, with those aspiring to be suicide bombers among the best off, a study by the World Bank has found.

The research, based on internal records from the Islamic State group, will reinforce the growing conclusion among specialists that there is no obvious link between poverty or educational levels and radicalisation.

The data, leaked by a disaffected former member of Isis in March, includes basic information on 3,803 foreign recruits from all over the Islamic world and Europe who joined the organisation between early 2013 and late 2014, when the flow of volunteers to the organisation reached a peak.

Those arriving in Isis-controlled territory were vetted and interviewed. Data on country of residence, citizenship, marital status, skills, educational status, previous extremist experience and knowledge of Islamic law was recorded.

The World Bank study found that 69% of recruits reported at least a secondary level education while “15% left school before high school and less than 2% are illiterate”.

 

 

[foxfanazer]

Just now, theessexfox said:

How you gonna deport the English-born terrorist who perpetrated the attack on Westminster Bridge? 

I honestly don't know mate. Clutching at straws to be honest 

[breadandcheese]

6 minutes ago, Merging Cultures said:

It can only be done by reducing poverty and increasing education (especially for women and girls), which requires the cooperation of political leaders, which is why it doesn't happen. They use the poor and uneducated to get into and stay in 'power'.

 

The initial reaction isn't to give more (or love more), it's to take the same approach as Jiggs. Which not only serves to placate the angry and scared in the country that has been attacked, but helps the political and religious leaders who are keeping their people down for their own gain.

 

We need to reduce inequality and increase education, in the UK and elsewhere.

Poverty and inequality do not explain Islamist fundamentalism.  There have been plenty of terrorists seduced by this evil ideology, who were educated and well-off.  

 

The only education we should be doing is to shine the light of truth on ISIS.  Documenting and investigating their atrocities in Syria and Iraq (as and when more ISIS-held territory becomes liberated) to show that they are nothing more than an evil cult who are committing mass killings, mainly of muslims.  It needs more Muslim countries to fight this an lead the investigations, rather than the West.  Hopefully, this would wipe out any glamour that any impressionable muslims might have.  

 

I should add that at this stage we don't know if the terrorist was an Islamist terrorist or not, but I am answering your point about how to combat it.

 

[Realist Guy In The Room]

2 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

The cat is out of the bag as far as prevention in the short term is concerned.

 

In the long term, avoiding starting illegal wars and bombing other nations would be a good start.

This is the most logical thing to do but also for some reason the most unpopular.  Apparantly tens of thousands of innocent people dying in the middle east at the hands of western military action has absolutely no connection to these attacks.

 

Crazy stuff.

[Merging Cultures]

4 minutes ago, Benguin said:

I'm sorry but a large amount of terrorists, as far as those that commit acts in the western world are concerned, are more often from families of wealth and education.

 

4 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

What sort of horse shit is this? The guy that attacked London and stabbed that officer was a sodding teacher with a high level of education wasn't he? 

 

He wasn't poor or uneducated so what was his excuse for being a terrorist scumbag? 

Clearly there is an education issue. Indoctrination into any religion/political system etc. that encourages this behaviour is due to a problem with education. I am not talking about having more degrees, in fact I think one of the worst thing that has happened in the western world is that people have been told 'get a degree and get a job', some people need practical education to get a skill. People have become disenfranchised because there is a con about University education. But that's off the point. These people have been indoctrinated, reversing/preventing it, require re-education.

 

In these cases, poverty is a separate issue that also needs to be addressed. As someone who has travelled (and lives) in the poorest parts of the world, I have seen what poverty leads to. It isn't pleasant, and easy to see why people become extremists.

 

Anyway, what are your suggestions?

[Benguin]

5 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

The cat is out of the bag as far as prevention in the short term is concerned.

 

In the long term, avoiding starting illegal wars and bombing other nations would be a good start.

I think so far as the Iraq war is concerned I am inclined to agree, however subsequent military action taking place could be argued to have prevented more loss of life than created. I am not convinced at all by this assertion that terrorism occurs due to military action, perhaps western targets would be less so without it but the ideology would still exist and depraved individuals would still be targeting 'infidels' in the name of the Qur'an.

[Realist Guy In The Room]

1 minute ago, Benguin said:

I think so far as the Iraq war is concerned I am inclined to agree, however subsequent military action taking place could be argued to have prevented more loss of life than created. I am not convinced at all by this assertion that terrorism occurs due to military action, perhaps western targets would be less so without it but the ideology would still exist and depraved individuals would still be targeting 'infidels' in the name of the Qur'an.

Its not the sole reason, but there is definitely a link.  It makes it a hell

of a lot easier for the recruiters of radical Islam to pedal a hate message when a drone strike blows up a hospital.

[Guest Foxin_mad]

4 minutes ago, theessexfox said:

How you gonna deport the English-born terrorist who perpetrated the attack on Westminster Bridge? 

Just execute anyone involved with such disgusting acts whoever they/wherever they are from are for treason.

 

We need to root out these evil scumbags from society and kill them before they kill us, we need the help of the communities in which they live to identify them and exterminate them. Anyone preaching hate should be eradicated. We need to get tough, they can not be educated the can not be reformed they are evil nasty selfish shits.

 

The death penalty should be reintroduced for those who plan, or are involved in terrorism against the UK. I don't care about the rights of any of these scum.

[Merging Cultures]

4 minutes ago, MattP said:

Unfortunately this is a myth spouted too often, most of the people who joined Islamic State were actually were educated to at least secondary level and many went to university, the tragedy of the three young 16 year old girls was they were all straight A students. There is a lot of evidence they attract the bright and the wealthy.

Poverty is the driver for the majority of people in developing countries to be radicalised. They are promised all sorts. The ones from the Europe are being indoctrinated. That's an education issue. I know lots of bright people, can get 100% on tests, but who are quite poor socially and have little common sense. We need a more rounded curriculum that teaches kids how to think critically.

 

4 minutes ago, breadandcheese said:

Poverty and inequality do not explain Islamist fundamentalism.  There have been plenty of terrorists seduced by this evil ideology, who were educated and well-off.  

 

The only education we should be doing is to shine the light of truth on ISIS.  Documenting and investigating their atrocities in Syria and Iraq (as and when more ISIS-held territory becomes liberated) to show that they are nothing more than an evil cult who are committing mass killings, mainly of muslims.  It needs more Muslim countries to fight this an lead the investigations, rather than the West.  Hopefully, this would wipe out any glamour that any impressionable muslims might have.  

 

I should add that at this stage we don't know if the terrorist was an Islamist terrorist or not, but I am answering your point about how to combat it.

Exactly my point. Sorry I wasn't clear, I didn't necessarily mean sending kids to uni. See my comment above. 

 

Education takes many forms.

[Stadt]

12 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

The cat is out of the bag as far as prevention in the short term is concerned.

 

In the long term, avoiding starting illegal wars and bombing other nations would be a good start.

Sweden and Belgium weren't involved in illegal wars yet have still been attacked by terrorists.

[Merging Cultures]

2 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said:

Just execute anyone involved with such disgusting acts whoever they/wherever they are from are for treason.

 

We need to root out these evil scumbags from society and kill them before they kill us, we need the help of the communities in which they live to identify them and exterminate them. Anyone preaching hate should be eradicated. We need to get tough, they can not be educated the can not be reformed they are evil nasty selfish shits.

 

The death penalty should be reintroduced for those who plan, or are involved in terrorism against the UK. I don't care about the rights of any of these scum.

He then becomes a martyr and 10 guys step up in his place. Such a short-sighted 'solution'.

[Benguin]

2 minutes ago, Realist Guy In The Room said:

Its not the sole reason, but there is definitely a link.  It makes it a hell

of a lot easier for the recruiters of radical Islam to pedal a hate message when a drone strike blows up a hospital.

I agree in the sense that terrorism committed towards westerners would probably be less common or perhaps non existence without said military action. The problem is however that without military action, how large would the Islamic state be now? How many more Arabs, Pakistani's and Africans would have been killed without it? My contention is far more.

[breadandcheese]

6 minutes ago, Realist Guy In The Room said:

This is the most logical thing to do but also for some reason the most unpopular.  Apparantly tens of thousands of innocent people dying in the middle east at the hands of western military action has absolutely no connection to these attacks.

 

Crazy stuff.

Whilst I can agree that the creation of a power vacuum in Iraq can allow for the rise of groups like this, it doesn't explain the attraction to these radical groups and its ideology.

 

This is an ideology that has spread, attracted idiots and perpetrated attacks in Kenya, Nigeria, Somalia.  I don't remember any of those countries involved with the Middle East.  Belgium got attacked.  I don't remember them getting involved in the middle east.

 

[Innovindil]

8 minutes ago, Merging Cultures said:

 

Clearly there is an education issue. Indoctrination into any religion/political system etc. that encourages this behaviour is due to a problem with education. I am not talking about having more degrees, in fact I think one of the worst thing that has happened in the western world is that people have been told 'get a degree and get a job', some people need practical education to get a skill. People have become disenfranchised because there is a con about University education. But that's off the point. These people have been indoctrinated, reversing/preventing it, require re-education.

 

In these cases, poverty is a separate issue that also needs to be addressed. As someone who has travelled (and lives) in the poorest parts of the world, I have seen what poverty leads to. It isn't pleasant, and easy to see why people become extremists.

 

Anyway, what are your suggestions?

What you are talking about is not "re-education", it's re-conditioning. All well and good in theory, but have you ever tried to get a religious radical to not be a religious radical? 

 

They aren't likely to listen. 

 

My suggestion? Pull all our sodding troops out of the middle east. I have literally no idea what we are doing there in the first place, what our reason for staying is, or just what the hell our "end game" is. All we're doing is causing more problems from what I can see. 

[Guest Foxin_mad]

7 minutes ago, Merging Cultures said:

He then becomes a martyr and 10 guys step up in his place. Such a short-sighted 'solution'.

He can be whatever he likes we know it is all baloney. We can not educate these people, they are seriously messed up beyond help. We need to stop being so cuddly, next the left will suggest we hug a terrorist and give them a home. Its disgusting.