Ashley Posted 23 May 2017 Share Posted 23 May 2017 Can someone answer me this please? Last week a teenager around the age of 14/15 tweets "Wouldn't it be funny if Bradley Lowery dies on his 6th Birthday" or something to that extent. Teenager arrested within the hour. Yesterday the attacker tweets about how he's going to attack the MEN Arena and it goes unnoticed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted 23 May 2017 Share Posted 23 May 2017 Many years ago I found a book in the street and it was to do with making homemade explosives. I phoned the police but just said I had found it and was worried about the intention of the owney. They said it was perfectly normal for someone to have an interest in bomb making and if I knew who owned it it would be theft if I did not return it. I still held on to it for a few years before dumping it. May have been around the IRA time. I wonder what reaction I would get now? What would happen now if it was found in my possession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 23 May 2017 Share Posted 23 May 2017 35 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said: I'm also not comfortable with the prime minister commentating on 'praying' - I'd prefer those recommendations were made by religious groups not the head of state. Agreed, in fact I'd rather all public figures avoid making any comment that could be interpreted as contributing to the religion a vs religion b idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benguin Posted 23 May 2017 Share Posted 23 May 2017 12 minutes ago, Kendal Fox said: So if someone caught looking up videos of child pornography said they did it out of morbid curiosity or journalistic/academic reasons, they would'nt go to jail? Why are extremist videos of people being murdered in the most agonising, undignified way not as perverted as child pornography? Especially as the person dies? Either that or you're saying you'd rather have your head chopped off than be raped.. Looking up child porn could never be just morbid curiosity. On the other hand looking up isis videos is scientifically speaking. Humans are naturally drawn to morbidity, it's similar to why we often dream of confrontation and see faces in things, to prepare ourselves for such eventualities. I am guilty of watching the odd video on liveleak, I don't think it's a crime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan LCFC Posted 23 May 2017 Share Posted 23 May 2017 54 minutes ago, Callabinho said: 22 people go to a concert and don't return. It's unacceptable. A demonstration of pure evil. Unfortunately being known to police isn't enough to stop these people, in what capacity were they known? In an ideal world anyone who displays an interest in terrorism would be incarcerated, however such is the way of the CPS it needs to be beyond all reasonable doubt that there conspiring to commit a terror related offence. It needs to change, it's a bald and possible Ill thought way of thinking, but 22 people dead..at a concert...children, families......when you boil it down the the basic facts the risk of loosing multiple people for the sake of hard evidence surely should be considered.... 22 and possible more, dead. It doesn't bare thinking about, but what is important is showing solidarity for those affected, I can't imagine the pain of knowing you'll never see your child again....stay strong Manchester. Fully agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted 23 May 2017 Share Posted 23 May 2017 Has no one stopped to think that there may have been muslims amongst the crowd too? The attacker certainly did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripeyfox Posted 23 May 2017 Share Posted 23 May 2017 40 minutes ago, ramboacdc said: i know election campaigning is currently suspended indefinitely and listening to Stephen Pienaar they have to show that "we do not let this stop democracy" but this is a huge attack and emotions will be red raw for a long time. Anyone that comes out and starts campaigning first will be villified. They really should push the election back a month at least in my eyes. I think you mean John Pienaar (BBC Political Correspondant), not Stephen Pienaar (South African footballer).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Floyd Posted 23 May 2017 Share Posted 23 May 2017 7 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: Agreed, in fact I'd rather all public figures avoid making any comment that could be interpreted as contributing to the religion a vs religion b idea. I agree with what you're both saying, but I'm quite sure that the only remotely religious remark in May's statement was 'thoughts and prayers'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 23 May 2017 Share Posted 23 May 2017 2 minutes ago, Rincewind said: Has no one stopped to think that there may have been muslims amongst the crowd too? The attacker certainly did not. He wouldn't need to, IS are from the salafist wahhabist sect of Islam. Even if there were Muslims in the crowd they wouldn't subscribe to that form of Islam so the attacker wouldn't have viewed them as one himself, he would regard them as much of a kuffir as me or you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
separator Posted 23 May 2017 Share Posted 23 May 2017 8 year old girl confirmed as being one of the victims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 23 May 2017 Share Posted 23 May 2017 16 minutes ago, Ashley said: Can someone answer me this please? Last week a teenager around the age of 14/15 tweets "Wouldn't it be funny if Bradley Lowery dies on his 6th Birthday" or something to that extent. Teenager arrested within the hour. Yesterday the attacker tweets about how he's going to attack the MEN Arena and it goes unnoticed? I would guess in that case it took about 30 seconds for someone to read and report the tweet to the police, and the teenage made no attempt to hide there identity. Perhaps the attacked, if what you say is true, had very few followers, or they got ignored. GCHQ might see thousands of such tweets every hour for all we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripeyfox Posted 23 May 2017 Share Posted 23 May 2017 1 hour ago, steveherbe said: Its ok guys, Teresa May has issued a statement asking us all to pray to God. And thats as much as this inept cow can manage. Its this belief in 'God' that brought us here. And to think I always voted Tory, no more. I can't see anywhere where the Prime Minister urged people to pray asyou have implied here. The only reference I could see is this one: "Our thoughts and prayers are with the victims and the families and friends of all those affected." Hardly the same thing, is it? Or are you just trying to spin it to score a point against a politiican you don't like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 23 May 2017 Share Posted 23 May 2017 2 minutes ago, separator said: 8 year old girl confirmed as being one of the victims. RIP little Saffie. I hope she had the time of her life at the concert. x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripeyfox Posted 23 May 2017 Share Posted 23 May 2017 Just now, Jon the Hat said: RIP little Saffie. I hope she had the time of her life at the concert. x Similar age to my son. Kids that age only see the good in people, they aren't world weary like the rest of us and to have her life cruelly snatched away from her before it had even started is beyond tragic. Rest in peace little girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajthefox Posted 23 May 2017 Share Posted 23 May 2017 Haven't really been affected by these types of things before but I struggled getting through breakfast without tearing up this morning watching the BBC. Terrible, terrible stuff. As terrible as it is though there are some murky suggestions on here about locking people up before they've committed a crime. Dangerous territory, that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox92 Posted 23 May 2017 Share Posted 23 May 2017 8 years old. ffs. Whole life in front. Killed for nothing, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendal Fox Posted 23 May 2017 Share Posted 23 May 2017 22 minutes ago, Realist Guy In The Room said: Its really difficult this. The other day in a group chat, someone posted a video of a beheading. He usually posts videos that end up being some sort of joke or cut to a porn clip so I let the video run for about a minute until I realsied what it was. Later that day he posted another video of some Isis propaganda and then wrote about how ****ed up it is. Everyone on that group chat now has a footprint on their device of watching this stuff. 2 of them are muslims, 1 of which works in Dubai so is frequently flying back and forth from there to the UK. GCHQ will have all that info but what do they do with it? That's why I don't understand why these videos are'nt shut down like Child pornography videos are. It's just being allowed to permeate people's sub-conscious/conscious and I have to think it ties in with the way these bigger scale events like Manchester are just allowed to happen.. Ok, a slight digression. But when people like your friend trot out the line "This is what's going on in the world..." for one they are spreading and promoting Isis' work and the other, they are being disingenuous. Would they post a link to a Child Porn clip and say "This is what's going on in the world...It's so fvcked up..." Of course they would'nt... Laws on these videos need to change for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 23 May 2017 Share Posted 23 May 2017 3 hours ago, Jon the Hat said: Well it appears connected in that the ISIL scum have operated in the power vacuum we caused. I think suggesting they attack us because we invaded Iraq many years ago is frankly nonsense. They attack us because it makes them feel important when they are anything but. They offer zero threat to us in any other way, they are militarily pathetic, their beliefs are laughable and doomed to failure. When your options are this shit and you are losing since the day anyone bothered to take you even slightly seriously in the middle east, you do horrible desperate pathetic shit like last night. This should be quoted on every single page of this thread. We laugh at pathetic death-worshipping fascists like this, trying to feel important. They will fail. We go on. Just as we always have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 23 May 2017 Share Posted 23 May 2017 8 minutes ago, stripeyfox said: Similar age to my son. Kids that age only see the good in people, they aren't world weary like the rest of us and to have her life cruelly snatched away from her before it had even started is beyond tragic. Rest in peace little girl. Same age as my daughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendal Fox Posted 23 May 2017 Share Posted 23 May 2017 22 minutes ago, Benguin said: Looking up child porn could never be just morbid curiosity. On the other hand looking up isis videos is scientifically speaking. Humans are naturally drawn to morbidity, it's similar to why we often dream of confrontation and see faces in things, to prepare ourselves for such eventualities. I am guilty of watching the odd video on liveleak, I don't think it's a crime Does'nt it take something away from you when you see it though? Watching someone be violated and murdered? All for the sake of your internet liberty, at the click of a mouse. I truly believe these videos are helping to perpetuate a loss of compassion in people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKCJ Posted 23 May 2017 Share Posted 23 May 2017 8 years old. Nothing wrong with her and she's been robbed of her life. Honestly, **** off you utter *****. Why do you do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Posted 23 May 2017 Share Posted 23 May 2017 15 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said: I would guess in that case it took about 30 seconds for someone to read and report the tweet to the police, and the teenage made no attempt to hide there identity. Perhaps the attacked, if what you say is true, had very few followers, or they got ignored. GCHQ might see thousands of such tweets every hour for all we know. With today's technology available they could have found them in seconds of they wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 23 May 2017 Share Posted 23 May 2017 2 minutes ago, AKCJ said: 8 years old. Nothing wrong with her and she's been robbed of her life. Honestly, **** off you utter *****. Why do you do this? They do it as I said earlier, because they are failing completely to achieve anything they want to achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 23 May 2017 Share Posted 23 May 2017 1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said: And what do they achieve? Like I said, they make themselves feel important briefly, and they achieve Zero, then go back to their failing land grab in the Middle East. Well they get their name and 'work' spread over every major news outlet and into every tv in the 'west' and quite a lot of Muslim countries too... But i get what you're saying - we are the ones who are making them bigger by giving them the exposure they crave... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benguin Posted 23 May 2017 Share Posted 23 May 2017 11 minutes ago, Kendal Fox said: Does'nt it take something away from you when you see it though? Watching someone be violated and murdered? All for the sake of your internet liberty, at the click of a mouse. I truly believe these videos are helping to perpetuate a loss of compassion in people. The ones I've watched in the past have normally just filled me with anger. I've began watching some that I couldn't finish as well. I don't think they perpetuate a loss of compassion at all, in fact I would say people who watch them are more likely to gain more compassion. It has nothing to do with internet liberty but if you can't watch these types of videos out of morbid curiosity, does it take much of a further step to say you can't watch horror films? In any crime, to be guilty you need to have what's called the mens rea (the mental element and by extension reason for doing so) and the actus reus (The physical element and by extension physically doing something) doing one without the other is not a crime, for instance taking home someone else's coat from a nightclub because you thought it was yours is not theft, providing you return it, as you took it home (actus reus) but didn't realise it was someone else's (no mens rea of theft) Therefore for watching these types of videos on the internet to be a crime, I would contest that a person would need to be viewing them for gratification and/or out of support for those committing the act of violence in said video. Simply watching them out of morbid curiosity would constitute the actus reus but not the mens rea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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