Manchester Arena blast

[Merging Cultures]

Just now, Benguin said:

I agree in the sense that terrorism committed towards westerners would probably be less common or perhaps non existence without said military action. The problem is however that without military action, how large would the Islamic state be now? How many more Arabs, Pakistani's and Africans would have been killed without it? My contention is far more.

Islamic State probably wouldn't exist.

[ramboacdc]

this has shook me. I took my then 6 year old to the leicester man u game just after the paris attacks and i was nervous but thought "they wont beat me" but this has threw that all out of whack. She is now 7 and we were talking about taking her to some gigs (her music taste is vastly different to mine but for her i would bite the bullet) like little mix and stuff. This has now made me go "they are now attacking places where they know it will be mostly women and children. Maybe part of my head is sexist for this (and i apologise if it is) but you bomb a football match you are going to be hitting a lot of adults and mostly men. People who are aware of terrorism and know what has happened. Im not saying women dont at all by any means but I may be "old fashioned" or something else for the lack of a better word but to attack women and kids just angers me to the core. 

 

For anyone to go to a concert, especially a pop concert with their child and not take them home breaks my ****ing heart. I am a tolerant person but this has made me doubt my own beliefs. i know that is what they want and i know i will get backlash for some of my comments here but i had to get it off my chest. 

 

my heart goes out to everyone affected by this. 

[Guest Foxin_mad]

7 minutes ago, Realist Guy In The Room said:

Its not the sole reason, but there is definitely a link.  It makes it a hell

of a lot easier for the recruiters of radical Islam to pedal a hate message when a drone strike blows up a hospital.

I don't think a drone strike by the UK as ever blown up a hospital. The missions by the UK in particular are incredibly well planned and accurate to take out what are seen as key strategic targets, The UK and the RAF has an absolutely great record on not hitting civilian targets in fact there are very few I can think of recently. Obviously the difficulty is when scum like ISIS use civilians as human shields.

 

Russia on the other hand has a less great record.

[Benguin]

3 minutes ago, Merging Cultures said:

Islamic State probably wouldn't exist.

And you arrive at that conclusion how?

[Merging Cultures]

1 minute ago, Innovindil said:

What you are talking about is not "re-education", it's re-conditioning. All well and good in theory, but have you ever tried to get a religious radical to not be a religious radical? 

 

They aren't likely to listen. 

 

My suggestion? Pull all our sodding troops out of the middle east. I have literally no idea what we are doing there in the first place, what our reason for staying is, or just what the hell our "end game" is. All we're doing is causing more problems from what I can see. 

In the long-term all things are possible, it does require the right conditions for it to happen.

 

I agree quite a bit on pulling the troops out. Let them deal with it themselves. We certainly have a moral obligation to help the vulnerable, so we'd need to figure that out (increase aid, medical support, set up more camps in stable neighbours), but it isn't our physical fight. As you say, all we do is cause more problems.

[Merging Cultures]

1 minute ago, Benguin said:

And you arrive at that conclusion how?

What are its origins?

IS can trace its roots back to the late Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian. In 2004, a year after the US-led invasion of Iraq, Zarqawi pledged allegiance to Osama Bin Laden and formed al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI), which became a major force in the insurgency. After Zarqawi's death in 2006, AQI created an umbrella organisation, Islamic State in Iraq (ISI).

 

 

[Guest Foxin_mad]

6 minutes ago, Merging Cultures said:

Islamic State probably wouldn't exist.

They will always find a reason to hate us. They hate our values, they hate what we stand for they want to take over the world and will do it whatever way they can.

[Merging Cultures]

Just now, Foxin_mad said:

They will always find a reason to hate us. They hate our values, they hate what we stand for they want to take over the world and will do it whatever way they can.

So, let's fuel their hatred further...

[Benguin]

1 minute ago, Merging Cultures said:

What are its origins?

IS can trace its roots back to the late Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian. In 2004, a year after the US-led invasion of Iraq, Zarqawi pledged allegiance to Osama Bin Laden and formed al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI), which became a major force in the insurgency. After Zarqawi's death in 2006, AQI created an umbrella organisation, Islamic State in Iraq (ISI).

 

 

To make that contention however there should be no prior evidence of Islamic extremism. al-Qaeda started in the eighties as a result of the Afghan civil war. Perhaps there wouldn't be an organisation called 'ISIL' but there would undoubtedly still be Islamic terrorists committing terrorism

[Merging Cultures]

1 minute ago, Benguin said:

To make that contention however there should be no prior evidence of Islamic extremism. al-Qaeda started in the eighties as a result of the Afghan civil war. Perhaps there wouldn't be an organisation called 'ISIL' but there would undoubtedly still be Islamic terrorists committing terrorism

Right, the question was...

[stripeyfox]

Sounds as if the explosion took place in the foyer. I'm not familiar with the venue but I assume that it is a soft target, especially at the end of the evening when people are begining to leave. I guess people are coming in to meet and collect people etc.

 

You can have all the bag searches you want but think about leaving the KP at the end of a game. Someone wanders through the exit gates and ... well it doesn't bear thinking about.

 

 

[Guest Foxin_mad]

Just now, Merging Cultures said:

So, let's fuel their hatred further...

I agree we should not be involved in wars in the middle east or anywhere but they still attack countries that are not involved because they are 'western infidels'. They will always hate us they are scum.

 

The best bet is to root out and eradicate them from our country, they are vermin and should be treated as such and they should know that.

 

Tell the world anyone is welcome here, to be educated, to be free but if you double cross us you are dead.

 

7 minutes ago, Merging Cultures said:

What are its origins?

IS can trace its roots back to the late Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian. In 2004, a year after the US-led invasion of Iraq, Zarqawi pledged allegiance to Osama Bin Laden and formed al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI), which became a major force in the insurgency. After Zarqawi's death in 2006, AQI created an umbrella organisation, Islamic State in Iraq (ISI).

 

 

So why did the original Jihadi ***** bomb the world trade centres, that was the kick off of a lot of this bollocks.

[Benguin]

Just now, Merging Cultures said:

Right, the question was...

It's not a case of what the question was, are you really that juvenille?

[foxes21]

1 hour ago, foxfanazer said:

Has anyone ever read a decent, suggestion on how to deal with these ever increasing terror attacks? 

 

There must be something we can do or at least get the ball rolling in minimising the threat. And bomb all the Muslims isn't what I'm looking for

 

Well one way Theresa May wants to try catch terrorists is by controlling and regulating the internet, putting restrictions on what people can post, share and publish online. They will certainly be able to do this, because of the snoopers chart which passed recently.

 

Obviously this is just security theater, because terrorists will get smarter & not use the internet. Literally nobody has challenged snoopers chart, its going to do nothing to catch terrorists & the only thing it'll do is stop us posting and browsing certain things online?

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/theresa-may-internet-conservatives-government-a7744176.html

[Wymsey]

Shocking and very saddening. RIP to those caught up in the disaster. 

 

Unfortunately, it's an attack that will be a key threat to the UK public for the future as this type of incident is one that can be hard to stop.

Lone attacks are one of the most difficult to handle and foil beforehand, according to security experts.

[foxfanazer]

I said earlier that I feel detached to these attacks but this one in particular has shook me. As a dad to a 2 year old daughter it terrifies me that I could put my child on this position by wanting to take her to such events. She loves music already but is it worth taking the risk. Sometimes wish I hadn't had children with the state the world is in

[Benguin]

The biggest thing that bothers me about this attack is the location. Of course Manchester is a big city but I have always felt relatively safe as I don't frequent London or other major European cities, this however makes me feel that it could happen anywhere.

[Merging Cultures]

1 minute ago, Benguin said:

It's not a case of what the question was, are you really that juvenille?

It was, you asked how I reached the conclusion that IS wouldn't have existed. I gave you an answer. You then said, well if they didn't exist, something else would have. Which I acknowledged is possibly correct, but it's a hypothetical, not implausible, but a hypothetical. We can't easily legislate against a hypothetical.

 

And if it isn't a case of responding correctly to your question, then what is the case?

[Merging Cultures]

3 minutes ago, Benguin said:

The biggest thing that bothers me about this attack is the location. Of course Manchester is a big city but I have always felt relatively safe as I don't frequent London or other major European cities, this however makes me feel that it could happen anywhere.

Agreed on this.

I've said a few times, and I think others have on here, if they really want to create terror, then they won't attack in London, they will go to the provincial towns because they are less prepared and it is less expected. And therefore, it could happen to any of us, at anytime. Which is chilling and really creates an atmosphere of fear.

[Guest LCFC_World]

This world is shit. You should never go to a concert and not return home that shouldn't be a thing. Ffs were literally living in hell. 

[stripeyfox]

1 minute ago, Merging Cultures said:

Agreed on this.

I've said a few times, and I think others have on here, if they really want to create terror, then they won't attack in London, they will go to the provincial towns because they are less prepared and it is less expected. And therefore, it could happen to any of us, at anytime. Which is chilling and really creates an atmosphere of fear.

 

A gun attack (like the one in Westminster) was neutralised within a minute. An attack in one of the towns or cities outside of London, Birmingham, Manchester etc could go on for ages before the police could respond.

 

 

[foxy boxing]

An absolute heinous and evil act designed to kill and injure as many people as possible as well as frighten people from doing their everyday lives by people with such twisted ideology .

 

my thoughts are with those killed and their families who only wanted to go out and enjoy themselves and in no way deserved to be slaughtered in a such barbaric method..

 

these terrorists want to create an everyday atmosphere of fear and try and divide communities and we should stick together and not let them win

 

we all need to be vigilant and prepared for who knows when the next attack will come!

[Benguin]

2 minutes ago, Merging Cultures said:

It was, you asked how I reached the conclusion that IS wouldn't have existed. I gave you an answer. You then said, well if they didn't exist, something else would have. Which I acknowledged is possibly correct, but it's a hypothetical, not implausible, but a hypothetical. We can't easily legislate against a hypothetical.

 

And if it isn't a case of responding correctly to your question, then what is the case?

The original point someone made was that this wouldn't happen without military action. my contention that it would involved discussing other things ISIS would be doing, you said Isis wouldn't exist without prior military action, I said it would (meaning an Islamic extremist group)

 

Just because the group might not be called Isis does not mean the original contention was false, Islamic extremism existed way before western military intervention, in fact military intervention succeeded one of the deadliest terrorist attacks in history ala 9/11

 

I give up, I can't debate with someone this juvenile.

 

 

[sly1]

Rip.

Get these monsters out of this world .

[Foxxed]

If you're thinking how to deal with it this at least deals with how not to turn the ****er into some kind of anti-hero.