2017/18 U23s, Development, U19s etc

[Ric Flair]

Just now, KFS said:

I don't know if I'd want us taking risks in Europe either. West Ham a few seasons ago regularly going out to Latvian sides etc because they would play the kids and use it as a pre-season run out.

 

 

There'd be a rotation between the league, two domestic cups and Europe though. Just like the top 6 clubs do, who give their academy players much more game time than the rest.

[Foxy-Lady]

8 hours ago, UPinCarolina said:

Makes me optimistic about the future of LCFC to see performances like Elder’s today, as well as the success of the U23s.

The irony being that ELDER has hardly ever been involved with our U23s set-up as he is one of the few players that has consistently been allowed out on loan. Interesting what happens when a player is allowed to step outside the U23 coaching enviornment...

 

Perhaps it is because of the opportunity to play regular football at senior level rather then remain stuck in the "win at all costs" mentality of LCFC U23s that has enabled him to develope into such a good player.

 

Fail to see how U23s football is the way forward for Choudhury, Barnes, Thomas, Hughes, Iversen and Gordon at this stage of their careers?

In the interests of the players (& the club!), they should ideally be playing at a higher level already.....or is it more important in the eyes of the "developent coaches" to win the U23 title...?!?

 

(PS  Arsenal U23 side last night had FIVE academy produced English players U21 ineligible for selection either due to elevation to 1st team squad for Europa leage (Maitland-Niles, Willock, Nketiah, Nelson) or out-on-loan (Sheaf). Clealry, winning the U23 league is NOT Arsenal's top Youth development priority...!)

Edited 20 February 2018 by Foxy-Lady

[Foxxed]

There's a fair few who are still benefiting from the developmental squad. There's about four who should be out on loan. I'm starting to the think the higher up that table we are the worse our attempts to loan people out have been. Hopefully some will see some first team minutes.

[Foxy-Lady]

9 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

There's a fair few who are still benefiting from the developmental squad. There's about four who should be out on loan. I'm starting to the think the higher up that table we are the worse our attempts to loan people out have been. Hopefully some will see some first team minutes.

Do you mean "worse" or "less"...?

 

IMO, 1st & 2nd year scholars, 1st year pros and yth players returning from injury definitely benefit from U23 development football as its the next setp up the ladder for them.

Anyone older than 20-21 and still playing U23 development football either aren't good enough to move on/up or are having their development stifled by not being given the opportunity to do so....and at the same time restricting the opportunities for those younger players below them by blocking their development pathway. 

Edited 20 February 2018 by Foxy-Lady

[davieG]

I'm not that convinced about these PL academies, sure they 'may' get a better level of couching,  most of them seem to have been enticed away from their local lower league club were I believe they stand a better chance of 1st team football and a lesson in life..

 

It also deprives the lower league clubs of a more lucrative transfer fee if the player moves up after impressing and playing regularly in a more realistic environment.

 

I know nothing will change but it would have been good to come up with some other way of developing these kids where top coaches are paid by the FA/PL to develop these players in the lower league environment.

 

But then I'm a dreamer.

[lgfualol]

44 minutes ago, Foxy-Lady said:

Perhaps it is because of the opportunity to play regular football at senior level rather then remain stuck in the "win at all costs" mentality of LCFC U23s that has enabled him to develope into such a good player.

Beaglehole covering his own backhole probably. If he didn't have older players to use then they would probably lose every week and he would get the sack. 

 

Iversen said he wanted to be loaned out in an interview in the Summer, now he shares the position with 3 other young goalkeepers. Makes me wonder how is he going to get experience like that. We are in danger of a lot of young talent becoming stale.

[Aus Fox]

Just a funny thing that came up on my newsfeed: A little OTT from the Aussie media:

https://www.foxsports.com.au/football/socceroos/wigan-v-manchester-city-fa-cup-reaction-aussie-callum-elder-lauded-for-starring-role-in-win/news-story/8f76aa74fa3172dfa8659622edc16f22

[Guest]

2 hours ago, davieG said:

I'm not that convinced about these PL academies, sure they 'may' get a better level of couching,  most of them seem to have been enticed away from their local lower league club were I believe they stand a better chance of 1st team football and a lesson in life..

 

It also deprives the lower league clubs of a more lucrative transfer fee if the player moves up after impressing and playing regularly in a more realistic environment.

 

I know nothing will change but it would have been good to come up with some other way of developing these kids where top coaches are paid by the FA/PL to develop these players in the lower league environment.

 

But then I'm a dreamer.

Maybe prem clubs should have a feeder club (or their academy team) playing in the 4th division. For example a link between us and coventry (haha) which helps them financially whilst giving some of our academy players real week in, week out football.

 

Though this probably more likely to happen if a european league is set up as promotion/ relegation would play havoc with the idea.

Edited 20 February 2018 by Guest

[Foxy-Lady]

2 hours ago, FIF said:

Maybe prem clubs should have a feeder club (or their academy team) playing in the 4th division. For example a link between us and coventry (haha) which helps them financially whilst giving some of our academy players real week in, week out football.

 

Though this probably more likely to happen if a european league is set up as promotion/ relegation would play havoc with the idea.

 

You make a very valid point!

 

Coventry seem to be doing quite well out of developing Leicester youngsters rejected by our academy and actually sold one of them back to us last season...!

Currently 2 more youngsters (under 20) from Leicester featuring in their first team who were previously not consicdered good enough for LCFC academy when we were in Div1/championship.

[TheUltimateWinner]

Does anyone know how Callum Elder is getting on in general, not just judging on this one performance?

 

Last I saw around Christmas time he was being rotated with another player for the left back spot. Don't know if anyone has heard anything or seen anything posted on any wigan boards?

 

Edit: Quick look back on some recent league games has him as being an unused sub for the most part...

Edited 20 February 2018 by TheUltimateWinner

[davieG]

3 hours ago, FIF said:

Maybe prem clubs should have a feeder club (or their academy team) playing in the 4th division. For example a link between us and coventry (haha) which helps them financially whilst giving some of our academy players real week in, week out football.

 

Though this probably more likely to happen if a european league is set up as promotion/ relegation would play havoc with the idea.

Not in favour I can see that ending up with the feeder club full of the academy players when what they need is to be playing with and against seasoned professionals.

 

Young players need to stay with their nearest club and  of course  must match their development level. 

 

[Aus Fox]

6 hours ago, FIF said:

Maybe prem clubs should have a feeder club (or their academy team) playing in the 4th division. For example a link between us and coventry (haha) which helps them financially whilst giving some of our academy players real week in, week out football.

 

Though this probably more likely to happen if a european league is set up as promotion/ relegation would play havoc with the idea.

Not to long ago Portsmouth were Premier League and Bournemouth were League 2. How would this work? Would they just swap roles as one dropped and the other came up. 

This sort of idea shows no respect at all to clubs currently in the lower leagues.

[Aus Fox]

3 hours ago, Foxy-Lady said:

 

You make a very valid point!

 

Coventry seem to be doing quite well out of developing Leicester youngsters rejected by our academy and actually sold one of them back to us last season...!

Currently 2 more youngsters (under 20) from Leicester featuring in their first team who were previously not consicdered good enough for LCFC academy when we were in Div1/championship.

Coventry? The same Coventry who are currently mid table in League 2? Have players playing for them we said were not good enough for us in the Championship? What have either of them done to suggest that wasn't the correct decision?

 

[davieG]

Goals against Arsenal now posted

 

https://www.lcfc.com/tv/625333

[Foxy-Lady]

1 hour ago, Aus Fox said:

Coventry? The same Coventry who are currently mid table in League 2? Have players playing for them we said were not good enough for us in the Championship? What have either of them done to suggest that wasn't the correct decision?

 

That is a rather short-sighted view my friend.

 

At age 19, both of those players are now playing senior professional football which is something that NONE of their peer group at LCFC have achived thus far.....in same way that George Thomas was doing for Coventry last season.....and we ended up buying him.

 

Will be interesting to review your comment in a few years time when we see if Bayliss and Ponticelli manage to progress in same mannner as George Thomas as only Barnes and Choudhury thus far from LCFC academy have proved themselves capable of playing in the lower leagues, and they are both 1 year older than Bayliss and Ponticelli.

 

And just FYI, extract below from recent newspaper reports...

 

 

 

[ramadaone]

6 hours ago, Foxy-Lady said:

 

You make a very valid point!

 

Coventry seem to be doing quite well out of developing Leicester youngsters rejected by our academy and actually sold one of them back to us last season...!

Currently 2 more youngsters (under 20) from Leicester featuring in their first team who were previously not consicdered good enough for LCFC academy when we were in Div1/championship.

Names ? 

[brucey]

21 hours ago, TheUltimateWinner said:

Does anyone know how Callum Elder is getting on in general, not just judging on this one performance?

 

Last I saw around Christmas time he was being rotated with another player for the left back spot. Don't know if anyone has heard anything or seen anything posted on any wigan boards?

 

Edit: Quick look back on some recent league games has him as being an unused sub for the most part...

I had a look on the Barnsley forums back when Matty James and Elder were on loan there together, consensus seemed to be that Elder was one of their worst loanees ever..

[1972 Fox]

On 20/02/2018 at 15:02, Foxy-Lady said:

 

You make a very valid point!

 

Coventry seem to be doing quite well out of developing Leicester youngsters rejected by our academy and actually sold one of them back to us last season...!

Currently 2 more youngsters (under 20) from Leicester featuring in their first team who were previously not consicdered good enough for LCFC academy when we were in Div1/championship.

 

19 hours ago, ramadaone said:

Names ? 

I assume that two of the names that @Foxy-Lady is referring to are George Thomas and Ben Stevenson? Can't think of a third one though.

[Foxy-Lady]

52 minutes ago, Blue Fox 72 said:

 

I assume that two of the names that @Foxy-Lady is referring to are George Thomas and Ben Stevenson? Can't think of a third one though.

Thomas, Bayliss, Ponticelli.

[ramadaone]

4 hours ago, Foxy-Lady said:

Thomas, Bayliss, Ponticelli.

Think you need to check your facts before posting 

[Aus Fox]

On 21/02/2018 at 07:51, Foxy-Lady said:

That is a rather short-sighted view my friend.

 

At age 19, both of those players are now playing senior professional football which is something that NONE of their peer group at LCFC have achived thus far.....in same way that George Thomas was doing for Coventry last season.....and we ended up buying him.

 

Will be interesting to review your comment in a few years time when we see if Bayliss and Ponticelli manage to progress in same mannner as George Thomas as only Barnes and Choudhury thus far from LCFC academy have proved themselves capable of playing in the lower leagues, and they are both 1 year older than Bayliss and Ponticelli.

 

And just FYI, extract below from recent newspaper reports...

 

 

 

I can't find any link to either player ever being involved with our youth set up?

Can you please provide details of when they were released?

[Foxy-Lady]

12 hours ago, ramadaone said:

Think you need to check your facts before posting 

Really?

Which facts exactly is it that need checking as all three of those players played in local Leicester junior football and were not considered good enough by LCFC academy, and all 3 were then at some later point taken on by Covenrtry where they have flourished

 

Not sure what else there is to check...?

Edited 22 February 2018 by Foxy-Lady

[Foxy-Lady]

1 hour ago, Aus Fox said:

I can't find any link to either player ever being involved with our youth set up?

Can you please provide details of when they were released?

I used the word "rejected" as opposed to "released".   Difference being that rejected players would not be offered contracts so cannot therefore be released.

 

perhaps "overlooked" migt have been a better choice of word on my part than "rejected"

 

Edited 22 February 2018 by Foxy-Lady

[ramadaone]

Way off the mark with Bayliss

 

 

[Aleksz]

12 hours ago, Foxy-Lady said:

I used the word "rejected" as opposed to "released".   Difference being that rejected players would not be offered contracts so cannot therefore be released.

 

perhaps "overlooked" migt have been a better choice of word on my part than "rejected"

 

How do we know if they we're just simply not watched by scouts from LCFC?