2017/18 U23s, Development, U19s etc

[LCFC1996]

it does seem as though the club have made a point of keeping these players together with the aim of being successful in the U23 competitions rather than loan the better ones out, guess only time will tell how beneficial that is but I suppose winning a trophy, albeit at youth level, would be better experience than spending 6 months on loan at the bottom of the championship and playing 3 games.

[rachhere]

6 minutes ago, lcfc sheff said:

this summer I hope most these get a chance in a few friendlies at least, a lot need some actual loans out as this u23s malarkey doesn't benefit players that much.

Indeed. Although in Barnes' case and George Thomas' case they have already been and done that. It's definitely time to start transitioning to the first team (which to be fair has been happening for Barnes). 

[lcfc sheff]

Just now, rachhere said:

Indeed. Although in Barnes' case and George Thomas' case they have already been and done that. It's definitely time to start transitioning to the first team (which to be fair has been happening for Barnes). 

we're in such an awkward situation, if we were focusing on just staying up and lets say we did it with 5 games to play; I'm sure most our players would get a chance especially under Puel. However, with us actually competing for 7th place he can't risk it really.

[rachhere]

3 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Heard it all before when all our 22 / 23 year olds strolled the league a few years back playing against 18 year olds. Most of them are hanging about lower leagues because they can't bully people any more.

Maybe that's because they didn't get the support to transition upwards though... guess will never know for sure. 

[rachhere]

2 minutes ago, lcfc sheff said:

we're in such an awkward situation, if we were focusing on just staying up and lets say we did it with 5 games to play; I'm sure most our players would get a chance especially under Puel. However, with us actually competing for 7th place he can't risk it really.

Nope. Definitely starting from the summer though. 

 

I just like to think that instead of focusing on getting the cheque book to buy people in we can work on developing further what talent is already there (and is looking promising in some cases). 

[lcfc sheff]

3 minutes ago, rachhere said:

Nope. Definitely starting from the summer though. 

 

I just like to think that instead of focusing on getting the cheque book to buy people in we can work on developing further what talent is already there (and is looking promising in some cases). 

I think the owners want Europe though, do we have player development actually in our plans?

[rachhere]

3 minutes ago, lcfc sheff said:

I think the owners want Europe though, do we have player development actually in our plans?

If we don't, we should do! There seem clear indications that that is the vision Puel has anyhow. Of course I am not saying don't buy anyone as the money is there, but just making the point really that even on these forums the focus is always on 'who can we buy' rather than 'who can we promote' which just seems the general mentality of how football works these days. Guess I am thinking back to Alex Ferguson's days and that group of young players - there's a lot to be said for a team that knows each other inside out (as I think we showed in 2015/16). 

[Md9]

Some good performances tonight. Would be nice to get off to a good start like they did against wba on Saturday then I think we will

win comfortably. Surely it would be worth putting maybe 1 or 2 on the bench for a few games to keep some of the first team on there toes. Gray albrighton sees a few younger players on the bench they may pick up some form again. Maybe give josh Gordon a few games off the bench see how he does. I thought Darnell Johnson had a good game to and right back is a position we are struggling with at the mo if amartey is out. Anyway was a good game tonight and could have easily had more goals on another day ?

[weller54]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

If only our first team could play a more inexperienced and weaker bunch of players every week.

We were outplayed by Fleetwood at their place in the Cup? 

[lgfualol]

Hope some of them get a chance at first team football either here or in the lower leagues. Liverpool loan out a lot of their best talent and I think we should too. There is a big difference between playing kids coming up from the u16s and u18s and Charlie Adam kicking your kneecaps in.

[Babylon]

11 hours ago, weller54 said:

We were outplayed by Fleetwood at their place in the Cup? 

You're comparing a one off game against seasoned professionals, and us playing a team that had never played together before. With a season of playing against younger, not as experienced, not as physically developed kids.  This happened before, the results are there in black and white. We had just about the oldest team in the league and we did really well. Almost all of them ended up milling around the lower leagues. As soon they became too old we transitioned to a younger team we were lucky to escape finishing bottom. This was a few years back, we've now got an older team again and we're doing well, with 21, 22, 23 year olds, with quite a few having actually played competitive football at a decent level regularly.

 

I'd love them all to be amazing, but the reality of it is we'll be very lucky to get two players from that group that are premier league quality.

[Outfox the Fox]

13 hours ago, bald reynard said:

Maginificent performance. I think every player had a good game. Barnes, Diabate, Gordon and Thomas (and Eppiah when he came on) look a class above up front.  Knight, Hughes, Wood and Johnson (and Pascanu when he came on) make up a wonderful defence.  You just think will any get a proper 1st Team chance ?

With us battling for 7th place, it doesn't look like they'll get chance this season. Obviously, Diabate's playing regularly and Barnes has had chances, but it's such a shame that Thomas and Hughes haven't had 1st team opportunities, they look close to Premier standard now and have had fair experience of professional football in League 1 and National League.  

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Vindaloo FOX said:

we will need some young CB's next season give Hughes a chances. 

 

We have a number of young CBs - at least 4 who should be pressing Dragovic and Maguire for a place in the team. Time For Morgan to return to Forest and Huth to move into coaching.

[Foxy-Lady]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

......us playing a team that had never played together before. With a season of playing against younger, not as experienced, not as physically developed kids.  This happened before, the results are there in black and white. We had just about the oldest team in the league and we did really well. Almost all of them ended up milling around the lower leagues. As soon they became too old we transitioned to a younger team we were lucky to escape finishing bottom. This was a few years back, we've now got an older team again and we're doing well, with 21, 22, 23 year olds, with quite a few having actually played competitive football at a decent level regularly.

 

I'd love them all to be amazing, but the reality of it is we'll be very lucky to get two players from that group that are premier league quality.

Absolutely 100% spot-on......although 2 of PL quality from any U23 group would be an exceptionally good outcome! 

 

Liverpool turned up last night for potential title decider with a team of 16-19 year olds (avg age = 18).

Arsenal did exact same at Holmes Pk previous week as 5 of their U23 players were included in Europa league squad (+ 1 on loan at Stevenage and another recently sold to Barcelona!)

 

Effectively, it was "Men against Boys" on both occassions but the clear message from Liverpool and Arsenal was "who cares about winnning a development league when our job is to create opportunties to challenge and develope our younger players!"

 

LCFC U23s were very good last night but before the hype-masters go into overdrive, it needs to be noted that we are regularly playing against sides 2-3 years younger and at least 6-7 of our players would have probably gained more from being out on loan this season in the more challenging environment of senior pro football to continue their development (Knight, Hughes, Thomas, Gordon, Chaudhoury, Wood...).

Instead, we see them 'competing' against kids 2-3 years younger than themselves who are not representative of the physical challenge they will face if they ever stepped up to our first team (or any team in the Prem League/Championship). 

Its is true that "you can only beat what is put out in front of you" but a degree of perspective is certainly required when assessing the performances and league status

 

Just a thought but im guessing that Liverpool will possibly have learned far more last night about some of their young 16/17/18 year old players in the face of adversity than LCFC will have learned about their older players.....and i doubt whether Josh Gordon will find himself playing against too many defenders in senior football next season who are 7 years younger than him.

 

[Ric Flair]

4 hours ago, Babylon said:

You're comparing a one off game against seasoned professionals, and us playing a team that had never played together before. With a season of playing against younger, not as experienced, not as physically developed kids.  This happened before, the results are there in black and white. We had just about the oldest team in the league and we did really well. Almost all of them ended up milling around the lower leagues. As soon they became too old we transitioned to a younger team we were lucky to escape finishing bottom. This was a few years back, we've now got an older team again and we're doing well, with 21, 22, 23 year olds, with quite a few having actually played competitive football at a decent level regularly.

 

I'd love them all to be amazing, but the reality of it is we'll be very lucky to get two players from that group that are premier league quality.

You're not wrong but if we cannot get at least 1 or 2 out of a group like this then we're doing something wrong and have to change. I've been hideously critical of our academy but this season I've been well and truly shut up. The coaches and whole leadership has remained largely unchanged for years which bothered me given we were a Championship club and are now held as a very able Premier League team but we didn't make any improvements to our off the field infrastructure in the academy. That could still be the case if this current crop are successful purely because of their age and physical attributes but don't forget a lot of these were playing last season when he barely stayed up so the turnaround has been massive. There is definite talent there but to be good enough for the PL is so difficult. Barnes has shown he can play in the Championship standing on his head but will he be good enough for the PL? I'd hope so but there's no guarantee. I'd be surprised if Hughes doesn't make it though, looks to have it all as a defender.

[Stadt]

I'd imagine Hughes will be involved in preseason 

[RowlattsFox]

I'd imagine we'll see quite a few of the young lads involved in the early stages of pre-season with some first teamers coming back late after the world cup, and some of the deadwood hopefully moved on.

[Foxy-Lady]

25 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

You're not wrong but if we cannot get at least 1 or 2 out of a group like this then we're doing something wrong and have to change. I've been hideously critical of our academy but this season I've been well and truly shut up. The coaches and whole leadership has remained largely unchanged for years which bothered me given we were a Championship club and are now held as a very able Premier League team but we didn't make any improvements to our off the field infrastructure in the academy. That could still be the case if this current crop are successful purely because of their age and physical attributes but don't forget a lot of these were playing last season when he barely stayed up so the turnaround has been massive. There is definite talent there but to be good enough for the PL is so difficult. Barnes has shown he can play in the Championship standing on his head but will he be good enough for the PL? I'd hope so but there's no guarantee. I'd be surprised if Hughes doesn't make it though, looks to have it all as a defender.

If ever there was a strategy designed to "deflect attention", i think you might just have unwittingly nailed it right there in those two sentences!

 

Why else would so many players who could have been out-on-loan furthering their development still be playing U23s football...?!?

 

[KFS]

Sorry., where am I looking at the table? On the Premier League tables none of our youth sides are remotely near the top...

[mozartfox]

4 hours ago, FIF said:

 

We have a number of young CBs - at least 4 who should be pressing Dragovic and Maguire for a place in the team. Time For Morgan to return to Forest and Huth to move into coaching.

No.  Morgan and Hoof are our future.  You see.  Dragovic will not be coming here......

[Beechey]

26 minutes ago, KFS said:

Sorry., where am I looking at the table? On the Premier League tables none of our youth sides are remotely near the top...

https://www.premierleague.com/tables?team=U21

[KFS]

6 minutes ago, Beechey said:

https://www.premierleague.com/tables?team=U21

Thanks mate

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, Foxy-Lady said:

If ever there was a strategy designed to "deflect attention", i think you might just have unwittingly nailed it right there in those two sentences!

 

Why else would so many players who could have been out-on-loan furthering their development still be playing U23s football...?!?

 

Beaglehole certainly hasn't become Guardiola overnight

[Foxy-Lady]

17 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Beaglehole certainly hasn't become Guardiola overnight

Or perhaps he has...?!?

 

But a closer look at the ages/inexperience of the teams they have beaten would appear to suggest that all is not quite as rosey as it first appears...!

 

(although i have been impressed by what i have seen of Knight, Wood, Pascanu, Dewsbury and Eppiah) 

[davieG]

Goals now posted

 

https://www.lcfc.com/tv/637356/goals-leicester-city-u23s-4-liverpool-u23s-0