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DJ Barry Hammond

Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

By DJ Barry Hammond, in General Chat

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Nick

Nick

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, toddybad said:

No. 

For somebody who is pretty left leaning, I am much more 'centre' (at least) on some of these issues. Personally think it is time for a reality check for some people in this country. I want openness and inclusivity but I also don't want to pretend that lighting a candle and signing Don't Look Back in Anger is actually doing anything to solve a very serious issue. 

So you propose what?

 

Because nobody else obviously in their right mind is singing Oasis songs and lighting candles thinking its going to solve anything - thats just his rhetoric to make out like people think holding hands will solve the problem. He lists random incidences from around the world and some song lyrics to say we should be doing less Islam - he proposes nothing except divisiveness from what I read and peddled fear in doing so in all fairness. Be centrist, sure, but Murray isn't centrist nor is he proposing anything of any substance.

  • Like 1
Dr The Singh

Dr The Singh

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

So you propose what?

 

Because nobody else obviously in their right mind is singing Oasis songs and lighting candles thinking its going to solve anything - thats just his rhetoric to make out like people think holding hands will solve the problem. He lists random incidences from around the world and some song lyrics to say we should be doing less Islam - he proposes nothing except divisiveness from what I read and peddled fear in doing so in all fairness. Be centrist, sure, but Murray isn't centrist nor is he proposing anything of any substance.

YES :huh:

Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Swan Lesta said:

So you propose what?

 

Because nobody else obviously in their right mind is singing Oasis songs and lighting candles thinking its going to solve anything - thats just his rhetoric to make out like people think holding hands will solve the problem. He lists random incidences from around the world and some song lyrics to say we should be doing less Islam - he proposes nothing except divisiveness from what I read and peddled fear in doing so in all fairness. Be centrist, sure, but Murray isn't centrist nor is he proposing anything of any substance.

You talk about peddled fear -  we are seeing terrorist acts weekly across Europe. Weekly. How is that peddled fear? Unfortunately I'm not sure there is an easy answer. I don't think anybody has a clue how to deal with the issue. The reality is that we are seeing weekly attacks across Europe. You look at the issues it raises and it becomes a moral conundrum - on one hand, we'd all like to see us helping refugees but on the other a number of attacks have been carried out by former refugees. How do we deal with that? We have hundreds of British citizens travelling abroad to fight with ISIS. How do we deal with them? After the Manchester attack I'm sure it was said that the security services are tracking something like 30k people in this country. That is HUGE. And that is just those on watch lists. Who is teaching terror? Who else knows about it? Who is keeping quiet? Who is too scared to raise the alarm? Significant numbers of people MUST have some idea. We need to face up to this fact instead of pretending it has nothing to do with wider communities. Those communities need to place a greater emphasis on dealing with this issue.We simply cannot go on doing nothing and refusing to ask difficult questions in case we cause offence. Lives are at stake and it is not "peddling fear" to say so. 

Nick

Nick

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, toddybad said:

You talk about peddled fear -  we are seeing terrorist acts weekly across Europe. Weekly. How is that peddled fear? Unfortunately I'm not sure there is an easy answer. I don't think anybody has a clue how to deal with the issue. The reality is that we are seeing weekly attacks across Europe. You look at the issues it raises and it becomes a moral conundrum - on one hand, we'd all like to see us helping refugees but on the other a number of attacks have been carried out by former refugees. How do we deal with that? We have hundreds of British citizens travelling abroad to fight with ISIS. How do we deal with them? After the Manchester attack I'm sure it was said that the security services are tracking something like 30k people in this country. That is HUGE. And that is just those on watch lists. Who is teaching terror? Who else knows about it? Who is keeping quiet? Who is too scared to raise the alarm? Significant numbers of people MUST have some idea. We need to face up to this fact instead of pretending it has nothing to do with wider communities. Those communities need to place a greater emphasis on dealing with this issue.We simply cannot go on doing nothing and refusing to ask difficult questions in case we cause offence. Lives are at stake and it is not "peddling fear" to say so. 

Sure I don't disagree with any of that - but thats just a response to one small comment - and relates to Murray's wider works - I read something called Islamophilia a short rant/story/book a while ago and some of it is interesting and reasonably compelling and the rest like an angry drunken memoir which feels seriously unbalanced and in a few places cringey. 

Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

Fair enough.

I've only seen a bit of Murray on Youtube from TV appearances and he seemed okay in what I've watched but I won't claim to be an expert on his beliefs!

 

Captain...

Captain...

Posted
Posted (edited)

So what is the answer? Start putting a quota on muslims in this country? Tearing down mosques? Banning the burka? Sending Muslims back to their own country? What about British born muslims? 

 

I know that some people see love and compassion as a weakness, but hatred only breeds more hatred. You victimise and target muslims you will radicalise more and put us at greater risk to attack. This isn't a small weird little cult this a global religion (estimated at 24% of the global population) that has political control over a number of big countries. Countries that we already cosy up to for political gains despite horrendous human rights records and a suspicion of supporting terrorists. It is interesting that some of the people advocating throwing out muslims are the same ones that defend our government selling arms to hardline Muslim regimes in Saudi Arabia. The political and religious shitstorm that will happen if we are seen to openly persecute Muslims will be much greater than any fallout from not selling arms to SA.

 

There is no easy solution, and articles like Murray's implying there is one serve no purpose other than to whip up feelings of anger and frustration so we get retaliation attacks like Finsbury. If there was a magic button that I could just press that would wipe out all indoctrination and religious brain washing I would press it, it is responsible for huge amounts of suffering and an absolution of responsibility by the perpetrators.

 

The only known cure to religion is education and integration but that takes time. The instinctive response to a threat is to do something, fight back, I know it feels like we are just sitting here waiting for the next attack, but if you go on the attack and target their way of life they will fight back, that is arguably how all this started in the first place.

Edited by Captain...
  • Like 3
davieG

davieG

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Captain... said:

The only known cure to religion is education and integration but that takes time

Well that's not helped by allowing and funding schools based on religious grounds is it?

  • Like 2
Captain...

Captain...

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, davieG said:

Well that's not helped by allowing and funding schools based on religious grounds is it?

True and I would support any policies that looked at reducing these schools and replacing them with integrated secular schools.

lifted*fox

lifted*fox

Posted
Posted

**** sake lol, you couldn't make it up. 

 

"holy shit, £9k? let me just get my bag packed!" 

 

with dual ****ing nationality as well, lmao. 

 

some of these these cvnts aren't even in the same galaxy are they? 

Buce

Buce

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, daz*dsb said:

**** sake lol, you couldn't make it up. 

 

"holy shit, £9k? let me just get my bag packed!" 

 

with dual ****ing nationality as well, lmao. 

 

some of these these cvnts aren't even in the same galaxy are they? 

 

Lifted straight from the BNP's manifesto.

Webbo

Webbo

Posted
Posted

It seems that since the referendum UKIP have lost their purpose. The only thing they've got left is racism.

Buce

Buce

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, Webbo said:

It seems that since the referendum UKIP have lost their purpose. The only thing they've got left is racism.

 

So, does that mean you accept that they were racists all along?

bovril

bovril

Posted
Posted
57 minutes ago, daz*dsb said:

**** sake lol, you couldn't make it up. 

 

"holy shit, £9k? let me just get my bag packed!" 

 

with dual ****ing nationality as well, lmao. 

 

some of these these cvnts aren't even in the same galaxy are they? 

Is it wrong that I'd consider it? Would keep me in ale and cigarettes for a while. My Mum is of immigrant stock, might give UKIP a call and see if I can negotiate an extra 500 pounds.

Webbo

Webbo

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

So, does that mean you accept that they were racists all along?

UKIP? Not all of them but they always had a good proportion in their ranks. The reasonable ones seem to have left now.

Buce

Buce

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, bovril said:

Is it wrong that I'd consider it? Would keep me in ale and cigarettes for a while. My Mum is of immigrant stock, might give UKIP a call and see if I can negotiate an extra 500 pounds.

 

Bizarrely, he specifically cited Indians and Tanzanians.

 

Where was your mum from?

 

 

 

 

Lionator

Lionator

Posted
Posted

The issue is for every radicalised person, there is a different backstory. One person may be radicalised by an Anjem Choudary groomer type because they have little prospects while others may have mental health issues and others may have criminal backgrounds, there's no common cause. We can wipe out ISIS in the Middle East, we can stop interfering with wars in foreign lands and we could stop taking in refugees, however there'll still be some people who want to cause damage. If the governments really wanted to end this they'd stop their links with countries which fund poisonous teachings of Islam but of course, oil money is more important than the lives of citizens.

Strokes

Strokes

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, toddybad said:

Come on then brexiteers - explain why this guy doesn't know what he's talking about and you do

 

Ex-legal chief attacks Theresa May’s ‘foolish’ claim on European court of justice

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/19/brexit-european-court-of-justice-theresa-may-foolish-attack?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

He might be right, but I think the guy has actually got it spectacularly wrong.

We don't want to be in either the customs union or the single market, just a trade deal that allows us some of the benefits. (There are already plenty of countries that have trade deals without being under the ECJ)

I'm not bothered by close links and certainly not at the cost of being under the jurisdiction of the ECJ. If this transition deal means we stay under it temporarily, then it's a poor show but I guess I'd accept it as needs must.

Nick

Nick

Posted
Posted
On 18 August 2017 at 21:04, Webbo said:

It seems that since the referendum UKIP have lost their purpose. The only thing they've got left is racism.

To be fair they've never offered anything else.

Guest
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