Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

[Guest]

Just now, KingGTF said:

 

@toddybad seems I might be more of a socialist than you could ever have thought

Everybody's lost their heads tonight.

Can you imagine having no public services?

Who would do any of the unprofitable things that are needed to make the country work? Like giving remote areas access to the internet. How would that happen if left to private enterprise? It wouldn't.

Particularly when none of the businesses (judging by the admissions tonight) are willing to pay proper taxes.

[Innovindil]

6 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Sorry but I'm not finding any of this funny.

 

The right wingers on here, those who complain most about people getting something for nothing, are the ones all admitting to being tax dodgers. 

Wish I was a tax dodger. I'd prolly be driving something alot better than my astra. 

[Izzy]

3 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Sorry but I'm not finding any of this funny.

 

The right wingers on here, those who complain most about people getting something for nothing, are the ones all admitting to being tax dodgers. 

Relax dude, you'll end up having a heart attack before your time at this rate.

 

I know you're passionate and take all this really seriously but neither you, me, or anyone else on here can really change anything.

 

All this politics stuff is outside of our personal control and influence, so I don't see why you get so animated about it.

 

Just play the cards you're dealt and get on with your life I say...

 

In the mean time, I'll keep taking the piss because life's too short to be taken so fvckin seriously imo

[Happy Fox]

I don’t profess to knowing whether he will be good or not, but he has managed at a decent standard in France and also one season in the premier league is certainly an upgrade on Shakespeare. 

 

Positives far outweigh the negatives, fingers crossed it works out.

 

This post was for The Puel thread ?

Edited 25 October 2017 by Happy Fox

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

Relax dude, you'll end up having a heart attack before your time at this rate.

 

I know you're passionate and take all this really seriously but neither you, me, or anyone else on here can really change anything.

 

All this politics stuff is outside of our personal control and influence, so I don't see why you get so animated about it.

 

Just play the cards you're dealt and get on with your life I say...

 

In the mean time, I'll keep taking the piss because life's too short to be taken so fvckin seriously imo

I am pretty relaxed mate, it's fine.

Just astonished at the gall of some people.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Happy Fox said:

I don’t profess to knowing whether he will be good or not, but he has managed at a decent standard in France and also one season in the premier league is certainly an upgrade on Shakespeare. 

 

Positives far outweigh the negatives, fingers crossed it works out.

 

This post was for The Puel thread ?

Thought Matty had spent a year claiming to be French!

[Strokes]

1 hour ago, toddybad said:

Everybody's lost their heads tonight.

Can you imagine having no public services?

Who would do any of the unprofitable things that are needed to make the country work? Like giving remote areas access to the internet. How would that happen if left to private enterprise? It wouldn't.

Particularly when none of the businesses (judging by the admissions tonight) are willing to pay proper taxes.

How is remote areas having internet keeping the country working exactly? Im still waiting for them stats

 

[Rogstanley]

I don’t think we’d have internet at all if it wasn’t for public sector investment would we? Telephone cables and that. Would the internet ever have been invented had the public sector not put in those wires? I guess maybe the private sector would have done it eventually, but only where it was profitable to do so, which probably would have only been city centres at a guess, to get all the business custom.

Edited 25 October 2017 by Rogstanley

[Strokes]

1 minute ago, Rogstanley said:

I don’t think we’d have internet at all if it wasn’t for public sector investment would we. Telephone cables and that. Would it ever have been invented had the public not put in those wires?

I'd imagine innovation would have fond a way to bring porn on tap to our homes by now. Where theres a will......

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Strokes said:

I'd imagine innovation would have fond a way to bring porn on tap to our homes by now. Where theres a will......

Who'd have built the road network? Bearing in mind you're talking about no tax and no public sector investment. 

 

You want schools and teachers organised by the public sector? Have you not seen the news of free schools being asset stripped.

 

You want stats, find them yourself. There are many millions more self employed people than there are recipients of non-disability related out of work benefits (even short term and you were talking about life long). If you can find evidence of any self employed workers not using creative accounting then you'll need to find evidence of about 80% not doing so (and considering the admissions this evening from every self-employed worker that's commented you've no chance) just to get close to short term numbers, let alone the infinitesimally tiny % of life long recipients.

Edited 26 October 2017 by Guest

[Guest MattP]

15 hours ago, toddybad said:

Sorry but I'm not finding any of this funny.

 

The right wingers on here, those who complain most about people getting something for nothing, are the ones all admitting to being tax dodgers. 

Not a single person on here has admitting to dodging tax, there is nothing wrong with someone legally doing things to help them keep more of their own money.

[The Doctor]

15 minutes ago, MattP said:

Not a single person on here has admitting to dodging tax, there is nothing wrong with someone legally doing things to help them keep more of their own money.

Legally there's nothing wrong. Morally is a different question. Even if you're dodging tax through loopholes rather than evading it, you're still wanting public provisions (like toll free roads to take an example from toddys post) but don't fancy paying your share to it - that is very much a case of wanting something for nothing.

[Strokes]

Just now, The Doctor said:

Legally there's nothing wrong. Morally is a different question. Even if you're dodging tax through loopholes rather than evading it, you're still wanting public provisions (like toll free roads to take an example from toddys post) but don't fancy paying your share to it - that is very much a case of wanting something for nothing.

So in your opinion is an accountant an immoral line of work?

[The Doctor]

Just now, Strokes said:

So in your opinion is an accountant an immoral line of work?

Accountancy isn't necessarily about minimizing tax paid, so no.

[Strokes]

Just now, The Doctor said:

Accountancy isn't necessarily about minimizing tax paid, so no.

By an large it is, it will most certainly be accountants advising all these immoral self employed people.

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Strokes said:

By an large it is, it will most certainly be accountants advising all these immoral self employed people.

Way I see it, accountants that help fiddle tax are of the same stripe as the defence attorneys who defend the guys like Dylan Roof - a necessary part of the due process of society as the job exists for a reason (and it should) but requiring a certain...moral flexibility to do.

[Strokes]

23 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Way I see it, accountants that help fiddle tax are of the same stripe as the defence attorneys who defend the guys like Dylan Roof - a necessary part of the due process of society as the job exists for a reason (and it should) but requiring a certain...moral flexibility to do.

Even so, its a bit rich taking umbridge with the whole of the self employed and leaving out the industry that is finding and implementing the loopholes. Lets be fair about this.

Edited 26 October 2017 by Strokes

[leicsmac]

5 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Even so, its a bit rich taking humbridge with the whole of the self employed and leaving out the industry that is finding and implementing the loopholes. Lets be fair about this.

Oh, no doubt. The super rich use these accountants more than anyone else. Probably pay them more too.

[Realist Guy In The Room]

My accountant gave me a list of things that I could legally claim for.  No loopholes, actual entitlements.  He also said that HMRC make it extremely difficult to claim for a lot of it.

 

Are HMRC fiddling the tax payer?

 

Actually dont answer that.

[Buce]

Alarm sounds over state of UK high street as sales crash

CBI survey shows biggest monthly decline in retail sales since recession of 2009 with inflation to blame

 

The fastest monthly fall in high street sales since the height of the recession in 2009 has raised fears for the retail sector ahead of the crucial Christmas trading period.

A survey by the the CBI found that 50% of retailers suffered declining sales in October while only 15% benefited from an increase, leaving a rounded balance of -36%, the lowest since March 2009.

Thank you for your feedback.

The business lobby group said the survey showed retailers were “feeling the pinch” from rising inflation, which has eaten into consumer incomes and squeezed profit margins.

Uncertainty surrounding the outcome of the UK’s Brexit negotiations has also preyed on consumer confidence, which has declined sharply over the past 18 months and depressed spending. Figures estimating GDP growth in the third quarter showed the services sector holding up despite recent declines in wages adjusted for inflation. However, the construction sector fell into recession.

Rain Newton-Smith, the CBI chief economist, said: “While retail sales can be volatile from month to month, the steep drop in sales in October echoes other recent data pointing to a marked softening in consumer demand.”

The gloomy CBI survey came as Debenhams warned of an “uncertain” environment on the high street in the run up to Christmas after suffering a 44% dive in profits.

The department store confirmed the closure of two stores, in Eltham, south London, and at Farnborough, Hampshire, affecting about 80 jobs, as sales on the high street continue to fall. They are the first of up to 10 UK branches that Debenhams has earmarked for closure.

 

Retailers are all trimming back their high street presence as shoppers shift from flicking through the rails in store to perusing their phones and tablet computers at home or on the bus. The likes of Marks & Spencer, Mothercare and all the major supermarkets have closed stores while investing in their online operations.

Warm autumn weather and low consumer confidence in the wake of the Brexit vote have also combined to deliver a “grim” October, according to the John Lewis boss, Paula Nickolds, who revealed last week that shoppers are continuing to put off expensive household purchases. That comes after the UK retail sector recorded its lowest growth rate in four years for the three months to the end of September, according to official data.

Debenhams’ store closures come as underlying sales at its UK stores were flat in the year to 2 September. Pretax profits slumped 44% to £59m as total sales rose 2% to £2.9bn. Beauty sales were up by 5% and food by 8% but clothing sales fell back by 0.5%.

Sergio Bucher, Debenhams’ chief executive, said: “The environment remains uncertain and we face tough comparatives over the key Christmas weeks. However, we are well prepared for peak trading and the early signs from our activity to date confirm that we are moving in the right direction.”

Aside from closing stores, Debenhams is trying to draw in more shoppers by offering services that can’t be streamed over the internet.

The company has signed a partnership with Sweat! to trial gyms in three stores, brought in new branded dining areas including Nando’s, Franco Manca and the Real Greek, and will put three Blow Ltd hair salons into stores before Christmas as part of efforts to draw more visitors into stores.

The company has also reduced the number of jobs that shop assistants need to carry out behind the scenes so it can put 2,000 more staff on the shop floor at Christmas in an effort to improve customer service.

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/26/alarm-sounds-over-state-of-uk-high-street-as-sales-crash

[Guest MattP]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/surprise-growth-in-economy-set-to-bring-interest-rate-rise-zbn3wxlkr

 

Surprise growth in economy set to bring interest rate rise

 

Quote

 

Britain’s first interest rate rise in a decade is almost certain next week after third quarter GDP growth beat expectations to climb 0.4 per cent, economists have said.

Official figures showed the economy accelerated in the three months to September from 0.3 per cent in each of the previous two quarters as factories benefited from stronger global growth and the cheap pound.

At the same time, the UK’s dominant services sector continued to power ahead. Only the construction sector, which accounts for just 6 per cent of national output, struggled. It shrank for the second quarter in a row, putting it technically in recession.

The economy’s solid performance, which outdid predictions of 0.3 per cent growth, cleared the final obstacle for the Bank of England to raise rates by a quarter of a percentage point to 0.5 per cent next Thursday. Since September, the Bank has said an increase could be expected “in the coming months” as long as the data turned out as expected.

 

 

[Guest MattP]

Just read O'Mara was the only MP from the new intake who hadn't made his maiden speech yet and his voting record is "below average" - he's also only asked his first paper question last week.

 

How did this bloke get through the vetting in such a high profile seat?

[Strokes]

49 minutes ago, MattP said:

Just read O'Mara was the only MP from the new intake who hadn't made his maiden speech yet and his voting record is "below average" - he's also only asked his first paper question last week.

 

How did this bloke get through the vetting in such a high profile seat?

I think they were expecting to get panned in the GE, so probably didnt bother.

[The Doctor]

5 hours ago, Strokes said:

By an large it is, it will most certainly be accountants advising all these immoral self employed people.

It will be accountants advising of loopholes yes, but accountancy is also about proper balancing of books and financial management. Macs lawyer parallel is a good one - it's not inherently immoral to be a lawyer/accountant, but aspects of their job can be.

[Webbo]

6 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

It will be accountants advising of loopholes yes, but accountancy is also about proper balancing of books and financial management. Macs lawyer parallel is a good one - it's not inherently immoral to be a lawyer/accountant, but aspects of their job can be.

The govt provide exemptions and allowances, using them is not immoral.