Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

[Buce]

 

Mark Garnier investigated by Cabinet Office over sex toy errand:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41794625

[Strokes]

49 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Mark Garnier investigated by Cabinet Office over sex toy errand:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41794625

I wonder if this is supposed to be the sacrificial lamb, something nasty is brewing up. 

[Buce]

1 minute ago, Strokes said:

I wonder if this is supposed to be the sacrificial lamb, something nasty is brewing up. 

 

Is there?

 

Spill the beans.

[Buce]

 

One for you, @toddybad:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/global/shortcuts/2017/oct/29/how-the-actual-magic-money-tree-works

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

One for you, @toddybad:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/global/shortcuts/2017/oct/29/how-the-actual-magic-money-tree-works

I find the actual nature of money quite a fascinating subject that is, sadly, understood by practically nobody. This fact has allowed governments to over simplify policy without giving away their real intentions.

[lifted*fox]

someone should probably tell him he can discretely order his dildos online these days.

 

haha, imagine asking your secretary to pop down anne summers on her lunch and grab some anal beads and an american bombshell dildo. 

[Buce]

Robert Peston: This could bring down the government:

 

 

The growing fear among Tory MPs is that the sexual-harassment scandal is evolving into the equivalent of the MPs' expenses debacle - and that it could bring down the government.

It's all the fault of that bloomin' list of MPs and their alleged misdemeanours that was compiled by Tory aides and was published by the Guido website overnight, with names blacked at.

The blacking out is not preventing reputational damage to a pair of cabinet ministers and several other senior members of the government.

Their names are being openly touted in Westminster - and it won't be long till they are outed on social media, and on offshore websites.

For May the big risk is that the story moves to how long she has known about the alleged misconduct, via her whip's office, and why she didn't move earlier to deter and punish.

Since time immemorial prime ministers and their whips have gathered intelligence about the flaws and transgressions of MPs as a way of enforcing loyalty. But that is not a good look for a prime minister who has said so much about wanting to stamp out gender discrimination, bullying and the abuse of the vulnerable.

That said, any escalation of the scandal that prompted resignations of MPs and by-elections would be a catastrophe for a prime minister and Tory party whose grip on office is the most tenuous of any government since the 1970s.

May somehow needs to hose down this fire pronto.

 

 

[Guest MattP]

Can't see it bringing down a government but it could be a pretty big developing story, it's more weird than anything when I read some of the stuff.

 

John McDonnell must be nervous as well, he's going to find it hard to ride this out giving he repeated a call for a woman to be lynched in public.

Edited 30 October 2017 by MattP

[fuchsntf]

5 hours ago, Buce said:

Robert Peston: This could bring down the government:

 

 

The growing fear among Tory MPs is that the sexual-harassment scandal is evolving into the equivalent of the MPs' expenses debacle - and that it could bring down the government.

It's all the fault of that bloomin' list of MPs and their alleged misdemeanours that was compiled by Tory aides and was published by the Guido website overnight, with names blacked at.

The blacking out is not preventing reputational damage to a pair of cabinet ministers and several other senior members of the government.

Their names are being openly touted in Westminster - and it won't be long till they are outed on social media, and on offshore websites.

For May the big risk is that the story moves to how long she has known about the alleged misconduct, via her whip's office, and why she didn't move earlier to deter and punish.

Since time immemorial prime ministers and their whips have gathered intelligence about the flaws and transgressions of MPs as a way of enforcing loyalty. But that is not a good look for a prime minister who has said so much about wanting to stamp out gender discrimination, bullying and the abuse of the vulnerable.

That said, any escalation of the scandal that prompted resignations of MPs and by-elections would be a catastrophe for a prime minister and Tory party whose grip on office is the most tenuous of any government since the 1970s.

May somehow needs to hose down this fire pronto.

 

 

I reckon all this speculation, over escalation should see the ejaculation of the government.

We will only have the right balance when the goings outweigh the comings...

The Whole orgasm  have shook up, the whole government , the backbenchers have not retained

the missionary postion, vibrators will be felt through the corridors, has we see all types bending over

backwards, the PM however has told everybody to keep karma to sutra the needs...

[Webbo]

Seems like one of the cabinet ministers has been outed;

 

[Nick]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41803604

 

BBC spin on BoE's job loss prediction for Financial Sector due to Brexit....

[Guest]

Last night i saw a video edited top just show WRM's responses on question time. 2 things struck me.

 

1- I actually agreed with a fair amount he said (though I don't we'd agree on the means)

 

2- he agrees with Corbyn that the UK shouldn't get involved in extrajudicial killings in terrorist cases. Considering the way Corbyn was attacked for that view (I.e. the view that is actually legal) I wonder if the tory rags will have to cut that attack line.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Webbo said:

Seems like one of the cabinet ministers has been outed;

 

This is a compete non story tbf.

She told him it was unwelcome at the time and he immediately apologised. 

[Guest]

Just putting this up as there was some chatter about universal basic incomes a couple of weeks ago. It's hardly a scientific article but it speaks to some guy who's part of a pilot in Finland. Interesting to see.how this progresses as the idea seems to be gaining a tiny bit of traction amongst left wing parties across the western world.

 

A basic income for everyone? Yes, Finland shows it really can work

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/31/finland-universal-basic-income?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

[Guest MattP]

JHB's statement, which I must say sounds extremely sensible. 

[Guest MattP]

1 minute ago, toddybad said:

Just putting this up as there was some chatter about universal basic incomes a couple of weeks ago. It's hardly a scientific article but it speaks to some guy who's part of a pilot in Finland. Interesting to see.how this progresses as the idea seems to be gaining a tiny bit of traction amongst left wing parties across the western world.

 

A basic income for everyone? Yes, Finland shows it really can work

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/31/finland-universal-basic-income?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

They are piloting a scheme among 2,000 people. 

 

Bit early to say they are showing "it can really work".

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, MattP said:

They are piloting a scheme among 2,000 people. 

 

Bit early to say they are showing "it can really work".

Did I, or did I not, say it wasn't a scientific article? Why not, just for once, stop being a pedant and just read an article with an open mind?

 

I'm not saying it's a good scheme or a bad scheme and I'm not fussed what the headline says. it's just interesting to hear from somebody involved, even if the experience of others may be wildly different once the pilot is analysed in its totality.

[Guest MattP]

14 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Did I, or did I not, say it wasn't a scientific article? Why not, just for once, stop being a pedant and just read an article with an open mind?

 

I'm not saying it's a good scheme or a bad scheme and I'm not fussed what the headline says. it's just interesting to hear from somebody involved, even if the experience of others may be wildly different once the pilot is analysed in its totality.

I'm sick of reading numerous articles for the moral case for UBI whilst ignoring the financial side of it, it's exactly the sort of guff I expect from a free paper but it seems like we now get one a week.

 

If we were to have a UBI in Britain of something like £70 a week we are talking an annual spend of around 400 billion, more than three times the cost of the NHS added to government expenditure overnight, logically you would think the less work needed would mean the overall tax take becomes smaller as well (I'm also baffled to what they think they will learn from an experiment of just 2,000 people) I'm also at a total loss as to why any country with a massive debt and still running a deficit would then start handing £70 a week to billionaires, that alone should show how ridiculous it is. The article starts by saying it's supported by Musk, Zuckerberg and Sanders, the latter widely considered the most economically illiterate man in America and the other two as far as I am aware have no experience in economics whatsoever.

 

I don't blame the Guardian by the way, it's paid circulation is so low now I assume they can't afford to pay for decent columnists.

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, MattP said:

I'm sick of reading numerous articles for the moral case for UBI whilst ignoring the financial side of it, it's exactly the sort of guff I expect from a free paper but it seems like we now get one a week.

 

If we were to have a UBI in Britain of something like £70 a week we are talking an annual spend of around 400 billion, more than three times the cost of the NHS added to government expenditure overnight, logically you would think the less work needed would mean the overall tax take becomes smaller as well (I'm also baffled to what they think they will learn from an experiment of just 2,000 people) I'm also at a total loss as to why any country with a massive debt and still running a deficit would then start handing £70 a week to billionaires, that alone should show how ridiculous it is. The article starts by saying it's supported by Musk, Zuckerberg and Sanders, the latter widely considered the most economically illiterate man in America and the other two as far as I am aware have no experience in economics whatsoever.

 

I don't blame the Guardian by the way, it's paid circulation is so low now I assume they can't afford to pay for decent columnists.

But isn't that what's intriguing? On the face of it I'd agree it seems nuts yet it is somehow an idea that's gaining traction. Somebody must know something we don't!

[Guest MattP]

1 minute ago, toddybad said:

But isn't that what's intriguing? On the face of it I'd agree it seems nuts yet it is somehow an idea that's gaining traction. Somebody must know something we don't!

Nazism and Communism were ideas that gained traction as well.

 

If I posted an article from the Daily Mail about a trial of a totally private healthcare scheme being tried on 2,000 people and they claimed it said " X shows it can be done" would you approach it with an open mind?

[Carl the Llama]

2 minutes ago, toddybad said:

But isn't that what's intriguing? On the face of it I'd agree it seems nuts yet it is somehow an idea that's gaining traction. Somebody must know something we don't!

It's definitely in the business interests of Musk and Zuckerberg given how their industries are going to be largely responsible for rendering thousands of people jobless in the hunt for automation.  A new economic paradigm needs to be found if their personal aspirations are to be met without incurring civil unrest.

[Fox Ulike]

1 hour ago, toddybad said:

Just putting this up as there was some chatter about universal basic incomes a couple of weeks ago. It's hardly a scientific article but it speaks to some guy who's part of a pilot in Finland. Interesting to see.how this progresses as the idea seems to be gaining a tiny bit of traction amongst left wing parties across the western world.

 

A basic income for everyone? Yes, Finland shows it really can work

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/31/finland-universal-basic-income?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

The Finland experiment is only giving it to unemployed people. So, not really UBI. I can't see how this differs that much from UK's Universal Credit, which I think the Guardian are opposed to??

 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, MattP said:

Nazism and Communism were ideas that gained traction as well.

 

If I posted an article from the Daily Mail about a trial of a totally private healthcare scheme being tried on 2,000 people and they claimed it said " X shows it can be done" would you approach it with an open mind?

Yeah but I'm not actually saying it's a good idea. I'm just saying it's interesting that's it's an idea that is becoming more popular.

[Jon the Hat]

8 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said:

The Finland experiment is only giving it to unemployed people. So, not really UBI. I can't see how this differs that much from UK's Universal Credit, which I think the Guardian are opposed to??

 

Surely if you give people who are earning UBI you are also taking it away from them again in tax, much like the better off can get child benefit, but pay tax to pay it back again.  Waste of time.  The irony here is that you make more people unemployed by paying everyone the same amount regardless, removing the admin burden of the current system.

[Jon the Hat]

3 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Yeah but I'm not actually saying it's a good idea. I'm just saying it's interesting that's it's an idea that is becoming more popular.

If there is one thing we can be sure of it is that the left will continue to come up with daft ideas , and the right will continue to shoot them down.