Alf Bentley Posted 28 October 2018 Posted 28 October 2018 29 minutes ago, The Doctor said: When was the last time anyone was charged with blasphemy before repeal though? Given the likes of Dawkins have made several decade long careers out of slagging off religion it seems like one of those quirks that was still on the books rather than an actual, enforced law. Here's a contemporary report on the 1977 case that @Buce mentions: http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/july/11/newsid_2499000/2499721.stm Here's Wiki on the history of some other UK blasphemy cases: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law_in_the_United_Kingdom#Number_of_prosecutions - 1988: Some Muslims tried to use the blasphemy law against Salman Rushdie, but the Law Lords ruled it only protected Christianity, not Islam - 1992: An atheist Birmingham science teacher was forced to resign after being arrested for distributing a "blasphemous" video - 2002: Tatchell and others gave a public reading of a "blasphemous" poem suggesting Christ was gay, in front of a church near Trafalgar Square, as a challenge. They weren't arrested & the law was repealed 6 years later.
Countryfox Posted 28 October 2018 Posted 28 October 2018 2 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: Here's a contemporary report on the 1977 case that @Buce mentions: http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/july/11/newsid_2499000/2499721.stm Here's Wiki on the history of some other UK blasphemy cases: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law_in_the_United_Kingdom#Number_of_prosecutions - 1988: Some Muslims tried to use the blasphemy law against Salman Rushdie, but the Law Lords ruled it only protected Christianity, not Islam - 1992: An atheist Birmingham science teacher was forced to resign after being arrested for distributing a "blasphemous" video - 2002: Tatchell and others gave a public reading of a "blasphemous" poem suggesting Christ was gay, in front of a church near Trafalgar Square, as a challenge. They weren't arrested & the law was repealed 6 years later. Blasphemy ! .. Blasphemy ! ... they’ve all got it .... oops sorry, wrong quote .. (Soz Alf ... seem to be picking on your posts lately ... ).
davieG Posted 28 October 2018 Posted 28 October 2018 18 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: Here's a contemporary report on the 1977 case that @Buce mentions: http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/july/11/newsid_2499000/2499721.stm Here's Wiki on the history of some other UK blasphemy cases: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law_in_the_United_Kingdom#Number_of_prosecutions - 1988: Some Muslims tried to use the blasphemy law against Salman Rushdie, but the Law Lords ruled it only protected Christianity, not Islam - 1992: An atheist Birmingham science teacher was forced to resign after being arrested for distributing a "blasphemous" video - 2002: Tatchell and others gave a public reading of a "blasphemous" poem suggesting Christ was gay, in front of a church near Trafalgar Square, as a challenge. They weren't arrested & the law was repealed 6 years later. A bit of Blasphemy balances out the hypocrisy and double standards of most religions. 1
Alf Bentley Posted 28 October 2018 Posted 28 October 2018 17 minutes ago, Countryfox said: Blasphemy ! .. Blasphemy ! ... they’ve all got it .... oops sorry, wrong quote .. (Soz Alf ... seem to be picking on your posts lately ... ). No offence taken. I've mentioned your orange shorts often enough! 1
Dr The Singh Posted 28 October 2018 Posted 28 October 2018 5 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: No offence taken. I've mentioned your orange shorts often enough! There not orange anymore, there yellow and white at the front and brown at the back....
leicsmac Posted 29 October 2018 Posted 29 October 2018 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-46013408 Another populist "strongman" stepping up to the plate. Seems to be in vogue these days. 1
bovril Posted 29 October 2018 Posted 29 October 2018 lols https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46016359 1
Alf Bentley Posted 29 October 2018 Posted 29 October 2018 12 minutes ago, bovril said: lols https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46016359 I had to check that this was really a BBC web page and not Private Eye or Viz. A special 50p coin to commemorate Brexit? Bearing the slogan "Friendship with all nations"? Maybe the slogan could be extended? "Friendship with all nations but not in our facking country!" Or perhaps a collectible set of different Brexit coins bearing different mottos: - Taking back control (of the M20) - German car makers need us more than we need the EU - £350m more per week for the NHS - We're in a strong negotiating position - We don't need no foreign labour - Less red tape - Cheap African food imports - No freedom of movement (including for Brits) - 40 free trade deals by March 2019 - Highest growth in Europe - Global Britain 2.0: the Empire strikes back - No Deal is better than a bad deal - "The overwhelming opportunity for Brexit is over the next 50 years"
davieG Posted 29 October 2018 Posted 29 October 2018 12 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: I had to check that this was really a BBC web page and not Private Eye or Viz. A special 50p coin to commemorate Brexit? Bearing the slogan "Friendship with all nations"? Maybe the slogan could be extended? "Friendship with all nations but not in our facking country!" Or perhaps a collectible set of different Brexit coins bearing different mottos: - Taking back control (of the M20) - German car makers need us more than we need the EU - £350m more per week for the NHS - We're in a strong negotiating position - We don't need no foreign labour - Less red tape - Cheap African food imports - No freedom of movement (including for Brits) - 40 free trade deals by March 2019 - Highest growth in Europe - Global Britain 2.0: the Empire strikes back - No Deal is better than a bad deal - "The overwhelming opportunity for Brexit is over the next 50 years" You're coming across as very bitter now Alf surprising considering it took you a lot of thought before deciding which way to vote.
Voll Blau Posted 29 October 2018 Posted 29 October 2018 2 hours ago, bovril said: lols https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46016359 The thing that's divided the country more than anything for centuries and he wants to fvcking celebrate it. Absolute binman. 1
Alf Bentley Posted 29 October 2018 Posted 29 October 2018 Just now, davieG said: You're coming across as very bitter now Alf surprising considering it took you a lot of thought before deciding which way to vote. Sorry if that's the way it comes across to you or anyone else, Davie. That wasn't my intention at all. My post was intended to be heavily tongue-in-cheek (with some serious points behind the humour) - hence the extensive use of emojis. I don't feel bitter at all. Quite often concerned, frustrated or sad. Very occasionally angry. Can't remember feeling bitter at all. My main concern is about the prospect of No Deal, just frustration and sadness if we end up with some less damaging, half-baked deal (I see these as the 2 likely Brexit scenarios, unless we end with a referendum/election) To answer your fair comment about my having needed a lot of thought before voting Remain, two points: - My main reason for considering voting Leave was not that I thought Brexit a great idea (I believe the world needs more international democracy), but that it might be the lesser of 2 evils: i.e. I was dissatisfied with aspects of the EU, notably defective democratic connection to citizens, undue intervention in national politics (e.g. Greece) & unduly restrictive economic structures under EMU, causing damage/unemployment/unnecessary austerity in several EU countries - I assumed that the UK would negotiate some sort of compromise deal, inevitably a bit worse than the terms of EU membership but not disastrous, protecting the economy, jobs, joint projects, citizens' rights, open Irish border, and maybe with a few positive aspects in terms of political freedom My concerns about the EU certainly haven't been eliminated since 2016, but they haven't got worse. The EU economy has improved somewhat but there are still major structural problems (e.g. high unemployment), a tendency to over-intervene and it hasn't reformed the over-restrictive terms of EMU. Race relations/Far Right problems are ongoing. I don't rule out the possibility of disaster within the EU or break-up of the EU - in which case, Brexit might not look such a bad idea. But what I had not imagined happening was the disastrous mismanagement of the negotiations that has left us facing a real prospect of No Deal (or some botch-job of a deal and/or interminable years of negotiations). I would expect No Deal to be a genuine catastrophe on a scale unparalleled since WW2. I know some will think that exaggerated or Project Fear, but that's my view - and I didn't think it at all likely in 2016. I didn't think our politicians were that mad or useless. It's that combination: EU flawed but treading water (and a fundamentally good idea in principle) v. UK in process of making a pig's ear of negotiating a deal, risking a national disaster, that explains my transformation from fence-sitter in 2016 to fiercely pro-Remain in 2018. Apologies again if I seemed bitter. I'm not. Maybe the wrong time for me to attempt humour when emotions around LCFC are so high due to the Vichai tragedy.... 1
davieG Posted 29 October 2018 Posted 29 October 2018 3 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: Sorry if that's the way it comes across to you or anyone else, Davie. That wasn't my intention at all. My post was intended to be heavily tongue-in-cheek (with some serious points behind the humour) - hence the extensive use of emojis. I don't feel bitter at all. Quite often concerned, frustrated or sad. Very occasionally angry. Can't remember feeling bitter at all. My main concern is about the prospect of No Deal, just frustration and sadness if we end up with some less damaging, half-baked deal (I see these as the 2 likely Brexit scenarios, unless we end with a referendum/election) To answer your fair comment about my having needed a lot of thought before voting Remain, two points: - My main reason for considering voting Leave was not that I thought Brexit a great idea (I believe the world needs more international democracy), but that it might be the lesser of 2 evils: i.e. I was dissatisfied with aspects of the EU, notably defective democratic connection to citizens, undue intervention in national politics (e.g. Greece) & unduly restrictive economic structures under EMU, causing damage/unemployment/unnecessary austerity in several EU countries - I assumed that the UK would negotiate some sort of compromise deal, inevitably a bit worse than the terms of EU membership but not disastrous, protecting the economy, jobs, joint projects, citizens' rights, open Irish border, and maybe with a few positive aspects in terms of political freedom My concerns about the EU certainly haven't been eliminated since 2016, but they haven't got worse. The EU economy has improved somewhat but there are still major structural problems (e.g. high unemployment), a tendency to over-intervene and it hasn't reformed the over-restrictive terms of EMU. Race relations/Far Right problems are ongoing. I don't rule out the possibility of disaster within the EU or break-up of the EU - in which case, Brexit might not look such a bad idea. But what I had not imagined happening was the disastrous mismanagement of the negotiations that has left us facing a real prospect of No Deal (or some botch-job of a deal and/or interminable years of negotiations). I would expect No Deal to be a genuine catastrophe on a scale unparalleled since WW2. I know some will think that exaggerated or Project Fear, but that's my view - and I didn't think it at all likely in 2016. I didn't think our politicians were that mad or useless. It's that combination: EU flawed but treading water (and a fundamentally good idea in principle) v. UK in process of making a pig's ear of negotiating a deal, risking a national disaster, that explains my transformation from fence-sitter in 2016 to fiercely pro-Remain in 2018. Apologies again if I seemed bitter. I'm not. Maybe the wrong time for me to attempt humour when emotions around LCFC are so high due to the Vichai tragedy.... Maybe it's down to me, I'm just so tired of reading negativity. Understand your concerns and I think my thoughts on whether to vote leave or not are similar to yours. I still believe that the negativity and doomsday speculation have seriously undermined any negotiations I've always respected and found much in common with your views hence i was bit concerned about what I perceived to be a change in your focus, my apologies if I got that wrong. Still hoping for a decent outcome or at worst the opportunity and ability to improve any agreed deal on an on going basis. It's a sad old time indeed. 2
Alf Bentley Posted 29 October 2018 Posted 29 October 2018 13 minutes ago, davieG said: Maybe it's down to me, I'm just so tired of reading negativity. Understand your concerns and I think my thoughts on whether to vote leave or not are similar to yours. I still believe that the negativity and doomsday speculation have seriously undermined any negotiations I've always respected and found much in common with your views hence i was bit concerned about what I perceived to be a change in your focus, my apologies if I got that wrong. Still hoping for a decent outcome or at worst the opportunity and ability to improve any agreed deal on an on going basis. It's a sad old time indeed. Likewise, I've always had a lot of respect for your posts, Davie - and still have, hence my habitually verbose explanation of my earlier post. It really was intended as barbed humour, not bitterness. Maybe misguided timing for barbed humour, though. I'm trying not to look too much at all the Vichai coverage now as it really brings my mood down generally - real though the tragedy is. We'll have to agree to disagree over your theory that "negativity and doomsday speculation have undermined the negotiations". I don't see it that way. For me, the EU was always in the stronger negotiating position and had limited ability to be flexible - though it has shown some flexibility over the deals offered (Canada+ or Norway+, but no cherries), willingness to be adaptable over Ireland. Even if the Govt benches had been united over a particular solution, I don't think they'd have got a much better deal than is available now, though things would have been much clearer much earlier - which would have allowed us to make preparations and avoid this last-minute crisis. Throughout the negotiations May has had a Commons majority (though needing the DUP after her election fiasco), but has been leading a deeply divided party - a problem she's tried to "resolve" by kicking the can down the road, being unclear about what she wanted, making impossible proposals...and sort of hoping that something would turn up. Well, it hasn't (yet). Agree with your other points - and wish you all the best in "sad old times" - times that will get better on every level, I hope. 1
bovril Posted 29 October 2018 Posted 29 October 2018 Tbf I'm tired of reading "I'm tired of reading negativity". But whatever, now doesn't seem like the time to get into yet another Brexit argument. 1
Strokes Posted 29 October 2018 Posted 29 October 2018 9 minutes ago, bovril said: Tbf I'm tired of reading "I'm tired of reading negativity". But whatever, now doesn't seem like the time to get into yet another Brexit argument. Tbf im tired of reading.
Popular Post Alf Bentley Posted 29 October 2018 Popular Post Posted 29 October 2018 18 minutes ago, Strokes said: Tbf im tired of reading. It did seem an exceptionally dull town when I visited. Nearly as bad as stoke. 1 6
purpleronnie Posted 30 October 2018 Posted 30 October 2018 17 hours ago, Alf Bentley said: A special 50p coin to commemorate Brexit? It was going to be a pound coin but its be devalued since the referendum. 2
Sol thewall Bamba Posted 30 October 2018 Posted 30 October 2018 Only Labour could moan about a tax cut for 32 million people
Alf Bentley Posted 30 October 2018 Posted 30 October 2018 28 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said: Only Labour could moan about a tax cut for 32 million people Not at all.... Look, here's the Resolution Foundation (Executive Chairman: ex-Tory minister David Willetts) also moaning : https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/news/99477/budget-delivered-major-boost-richest Meanwhile, poor old John McDonnell is getting in the neck for saying that Labour WON'T oppose the tax cuts: https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/99482/labour-row-erupts-after-john-mcdonnell-backs "The Shadow Chancellor said Labour would not scrap Philip Hammond’s Budget pledge to lift the threshold at which people start paying income tax to £12,500 and shift the higher rate to £50,000 a year earlier than planned. The backing came in spite of a damning analysis by the Resolution Foundation think tank which said the move would benefit the richest tenth of households by 14 times as much as the poorest. While he repeated Labour’s call for a “fairer taxation system”, Mr McDonnell told Radio Four's Today programme: “We’ll support the tax cuts at the moment on the basis that it will inject some demand into the economy. He added: “What we’ve said is we’ll leave those personal allowances at whatever we inherit. But our focus will be on a fair taxation system.” In the interest of fairness, depending on your perspective he is either playing clever politics (good!) or being a bit disingenuous there. While the "injecting demand" argument is valid, a big part of his stance will be because (a) tax cuts are popular; and (b) he doesn't want to hand out ammunition allowing Labour to be depicted as the "high tax party". In government, I'm sure he'd make it a higher priority to tackle our ever-increasing poverty and inequality, reverse cuts to schools, police etc, rather than handing out tax cuts to those earning well above average pay (as well as to those on low pay). We'll have to wait and see whether Hammond's tax cuts and NHS spending increase are still applicable in 2019, though.....probably not if we end up with a No Deal Brexit.
Sol thewall Bamba Posted 30 October 2018 Posted 30 October 2018 2 hours ago, Alf Bentley said: Not at all.... Look, here's the Resolution Foundation (Executive Chairman: ex-Tory minister David Willetts) also moaning : https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/news/99477/budget-delivered-major-boost-richest Meanwhile, poor old John McDonnell is getting in the neck for saying that Labour WON'T oppose the tax cuts: https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/99482/labour-row-erupts-after-john-mcdonnell-backs "The Shadow Chancellor said Labour would not scrap Philip Hammond’s Budget pledge to lift the threshold at which people start paying income tax to £12,500 and shift the higher rate to £50,000 a year earlier than planned. The backing came in spite of a damning analysis by the Resolution Foundation think tank which said the move would benefit the richest tenth of households by 14 times as much as the poorest. While he repeated Labour’s call for a “fairer taxation system”, Mr McDonnell told Radio Four's Today programme: “We’ll support the tax cuts at the moment on the basis that it will inject some demand into the economy. He added: “What we’ve said is we’ll leave those personal allowances at whatever we inherit. But our focus will be on a fair taxation system.” In the interest of fairness, depending on your perspective he is either playing clever politics (good!) or being a bit disingenuous there. While the "injecting demand" argument is valid, a big part of his stance will be because (a) tax cuts are popular; and (b) he doesn't want to hand out ammunition allowing Labour to be depicted as the "high tax party". In government, I'm sure he'd make it a higher priority to tackle our ever-increasing poverty and inequality, reverse cuts to schools, police etc, rather than handing out tax cuts to those earning well above average pay (as well as to those on low pay). We'll have to wait and see whether Hammond's tax cuts and NHS spending increase are still applicable in 2019, though.....probably not if we end up with a No Deal Brexit. To be honest I was more referring to Emily Thornberry's tweet suggest that it was "tax cuts for the rich", when in reality it's a tax cut for pretty much everyone in full time employment. What McDonnell says is pretty immaterial anyway
Alf Bentley Posted 30 October 2018 Posted 30 October 2018 6 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said: To be honest I was more referring to Emily Thornberry's tweet suggest that it was "tax cuts for the rich", when in reality it's a tax cut for pretty much everyone in full time employment. What McDonnell says is pretty immaterial anyway Obviously taking the party organisation a little while to get everyone singing from the same hymn sheet. Yes, it's a tax cut for almost everyone in F/T employment, but the expert analysts agree with Thornberry to some extent (and McDonnell, he's just adopting slightly smarter politics). I think the IFS quoted a tax cut of £24 for someone on £10k and a tax cut of £120 for someone on £50k (approximate figures, from memory). Resolution Foundation calculated that 90% of the tax giveaway would go to the top 50%, and 50% of the giveaway to the top 10% (from memory, again). Same old Tories.....in the "good times", everyone benefits....but mainly the rich; in the bad times, "we're all in this together"....but some are in it more than others! Hammond's decisions on public spending are interesting. I can understand the NHS being No. 1 priority when the OBS found some cash down the back of the sofa. But he seems to have handed almost all the spare cash to the NHS and next to nothing to schools, police, local councils, the care system etc. If only for the sake of good PR, I'd have thought it made more sense for him to spread the money around a bit more. Apparently there's been some speculation that it was a budget for an early election. Thinking cynically, I wouldn't entirely blame the Tories, given the deadlock over Brexit and the fact that they're still ahead in narrowly ahead in most polls. May has explicitly denied this rumour, though. I do wonder if the Tories might win a majority in an election held now, if only because the electorate think it best to keep the same govt at a critical point in Brexit negotiations.....though even with a small majority they might not have a majority for any particular type of Brexit due to internal divisions.... All these plans depend on the Brexit outcome, anyway. To be fair, Hammond's probably right to expect a short-term upturn if a Brexit deal is done - companies holding fire on investment, waiting to see if there's a deal. On the other hand, if there's No Deal, Theresa's comments about "the end of austerity" could really come back to haunt her, big- time.
Innovindil Posted 30 October 2018 Posted 30 October 2018 6 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: Obviously taking the party organisation a little while to get everyone singing from the same hymn sheet. Yes, it's a tax cut for almost everyone in F/T employment, but the expert analysts agree with Thornberry to some extent (and McDonnell, he's just adopting slightly smarter politics). I think the IFS quoted a tax cut of £24 for someone on £10k and a tax cut of £120 for someone on £50k (approximate figures, from memory). Resolution Foundation calculated that 90% of the tax giveaway would go to the top 50%, and 50% of the giveaway to the top 10% (from memory, again). Same old Tories.....in the "good times", everyone benefits....but mainly the rich; in the bad times, "we're all in this together"....but some are in it more than others! Hammond's decisions on public spending are interesting. I can understand the NHS being No. 1 priority when the OBS found some cash down the back of the sofa. But he seems to have handed almost all the spare cash to the NHS and next to nothing to schools, police, local councils, the care system etc. If only for the sake of good PR, I'd have thought it made more sense for him to spread the money around a bit more. Apparently there's been some speculation that it was a budget for an early election. Thinking cynically, I wouldn't entirely blame the Tories, given the deadlock over Brexit and the fact that they're still ahead in narrowly ahead in most polls. May has explicitly denied this rumour, though. I do wonder if the Tories might win a majority in an election held now, if only because the electorate think it best to keep the same govt at a critical point in Brexit negotiations.....though even with a small majority they might not have a majority for any particular type of Brexit due to internal divisions.... All these plans depend on the Brexit outcome, anyway. To be fair, Hammond's probably right to expect a short-term upturn if a Brexit deal is done - companies holding fire on investment, waiting to see if there's a deal. On the other hand, if there's No Deal, Theresa's comments about "the end of austerity" could really come back to haunt her, big- time. So proportionately the same then. Don't get the complaint in all honestly.
Alf Bentley Posted 30 October 2018 Posted 30 October 2018 8 minutes ago, Innovindil said: So proportionately the same then. Don't get the complaint in all honestly. As I mentioned, McDonnell has said that Labour isn't going to oppose the tax cuts. Given the comparatively small sums involved, it's no big deal, anyway. The issue, insofar as one exists, is over priorities. People on low pay have been struggling through years of austerity and public services have been starved of funding. A bit of extra cash has been found. Pretty much none of it has been given to schools, councils, the police, the care system etc (a large chunk has gone to the NHS, whether enough is another matter) - and a large chunk of the tax cut has gone to those least in need of it. Of the tax cuts, "proportional" might sound fair but people on low pay who have gone through years of austerity need money a lot more than people on £50k+ - and are more likely to spend it, too, boosting growth at a time when we're struggling with growth. As I recall, the IFS said that of the total (fairly small) tax giveaway about 90% would go to those on above-average incomes and about 50% to the top 10%......priorities!
RoboFox Posted 31 October 2018 Posted 31 October 2018 Halloween top tip: Dress up as a “Brexit” tonight. Go to the pub, abandon your friends, then sit in the corner by yourself whilst yelling at them to keep buying you drinks.
Strokes Posted 31 October 2018 Posted 31 October 2018 15 minutes ago, RoboFox said: Halloween top tip: Dress up as a “Brexit” tonight. Go to the pub, abandon your friends, then sit in the corner by yourself whilst yelling at them to keep buying you drinks. Are there any pubs left? They all seem to be disappearing since we joined the EU.
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