Ahmed Musa - Possible Loan Move

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

Just now, toddybad said:

Name me some good performances without using the words Everton or Barcelona. 

Palace, Arsenal

[frany104]

1 minute ago, toddybad said:

Name me some good performances without using the words Everton or Barcelona. 

Sevilla Away ???

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

Exactly.

 

The mainstream mentality on this thread seems to be, ignore 95% of what we have seen which has been bad beyond belief. Then focus us on very rare pieces of good play, and say that is his true level!  

 

The logic then is, drop other players that have performed, to give him more game time.

 

 We don't owe these players anything; they are rewarded financially beyond comprehension so if they don't perform they need to be moved on. We are not in a league where a team can carry passengers, where having any outfield player, be so poor in a game costs us points. 

 

The sooner he is gone and lessening the wage bill the better. 

For starters it hasn't been anything like 95% of the time, that's just the usual foxestalk lets exaggerate everything. If you want to take premier league alone, he's played just 764 minutes. A simplistic count up of games he did fairly well in would be Hull 90 minutes, Palace 81 minutes, Spurs 68 minutes. That alone is 31% of his time being pretty decent and it's presuming every other minute was useless, which he just wasn't.

 

Yeah, he had moments of being spectacularly bad, nobody can deny that. But it was no more a regular than the bits where he looked good. In the main, just was just as bad as everyone else... out of sorts, out of confidence and not got a clue how to turn it around. You do seem to forget that EVERYONE was playing badly, the team was rubbish and badly managed and we were expecting new signings to come in and perform where established players even couldn't.

 

I don't care who the opposition was, but I've seen plenty pre season to show he's nowhere near as bad as people make out (again). You lot make out he can't even control a ball, but his control and use of it was pretty damn good against Burton, just as it was at times last season.

 

I don't expect others dropping for him, but I certainly think he's got far more to offer than you make out.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

36 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Name me some good performances without using the words Everton or Barcelona. 

And Babylon just reminded me about Spurs too

[Realist Guy In The Room]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

his control and use of it was pretty damn good against Burton

 

 

Close thread.

[dbtcity]

Writing a player off after his 1st season in this country where he's been used as a late sub the majority of the time, confidence plays a massive part in most players performances yet I guess he should be brimming with it... regardless of whether you want to see it or not he has offered glimpses when given a fair crack ie palace, Spurs and WBA where shock horror he had a mini run of games!! My main worry with him is I fear he's to light weight to play centrally in the prem but as a winger with a bit of confidence I can see him doing real damage

[Babylon]

8 minutes ago, Realist Guy In The Room said:

Close thread.

What does it matter who is was against? Control and decision making are skills, whether you are playing United or Burton it's the same thing and not effected by the opposition. He's had an impact in most games pre season, far more that can be said of some.

 

The players also said he'd been on fire in training and I think his performances are looking positive.

[NotTheMarketLeader]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

For starters it hasn't been anything like 95% of the time, that's just the usual foxestalk lets exaggerate everything. If you want to take premier league alone, he's played just 764 minutes. A simplistic count up of games he did fairly well in would be Hull 90 minutes, Palace 81 minutes, Spurs 68 minutes. That alone is 31% of his time being pretty decent and it's presuming every other minute was useless, which he just wasn't.

 

Yeah, he had moments of being spectacularly bad, nobody can deny that. But it was no more a regular than the bits where he looked good. In the main, just was just as bad as everyone else... out of sorts, out of confidence and not got a clue how to turn it around. You do seem to forget that EVERYONE was playing badly, the team was rubbish and badly managed and we were expecting new signings to come in and perform where established players even couldn't.

 

I don't care who the opposition was, but I've seen plenty pre season to show he's nowhere near as bad as people make out (again). You lot make out he can't even control a ball, but his control and use of it was pretty damn good against Burton, just as it was at times last season.

 

I don't expect others dropping for him, but I certainly think he's got far more to offer than you make out.

Palace and Spurs he scored which is something; Hull though?

 

I do not rate him at all, from what I have seen his ability is awful contrary to your opinion when 'he had a good half at Burton'.

 

I may have looked good at some point in my life but that no more makes me a PL quality footballer than it does Musa.

 

 

[Babylon]

2 minutes ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

Palace and Spurs he scored which is something; Hull though?

 

I do not rate him at all,

from what I have seen his ability is awful contrary to your opinion when 'he had a good half at Burton'.

 

I may have looked good at some point in my life but that no more makes me a PL quality footballer than it does Musa.

I've posted the Hull video two or three times, he created 3 gilt edge chances that I think Vardy wasted each time. Some really good play, play that someone who can't play football wouldn't have produced 3 times in a game.

 

On top of that he's looked good against Barca, Everton, Palace, Spurs, Arsenal at home he made a big impact when he came on and tore Bellerin a new one a few times. This preseason he's payed well ALL game against Burton, some great work against Luton (set up the goal) and should have had several pennos across all his games.

 

I'm not expecting a Mahrez, I'm expecting a Schlupp with some end product and I think he can be that.

 

 

[notnow john]

47 minutes ago, Babylon said:

I've posted the Hull video two or three times, he created 3 gilt edge chances that I think Vardy wasted each time. Some really good play, play that someone who can't play football wouldn't have produced 3 times in a game.

 

On top of that he's looked good against Barca, Everton, Palace, Spurs, Arsenal at home he made a big impact when he came on and tore Bellerin a new one a few times. This preseason he's payed well ALL game against Burton, some great work against Luton (set up the goal) and should have had several pennos across all his games.

 

I'm not expecting a Mahrez, I'm expecting a Schlupp with some end product and I think he can be that.

 

 

You're certainly managing your expectations!

[Realist Guy In The Room]

3 hours ago, Babylon said:

What does it matter who is was against? Control and decision making are skills, whether you are playing United or Burton it's the same thing and not effected by the opposition. 

If Paul Pogba is on you rather than Jackson Irvine, you're mindset would be completely different and would most definitely effect your decision making and probably your control too as you'd be more inclined to be concentrating less on your touch.

 

Your defence of the player is fair enough as he probably isn't as bad as most are making out and if he had a run in the team, he may well prove decent.  My opinion is even from his limited pitch time, I haven't seen enough quality to think that he could hack the Premier League.  

 

I dont think as a team we can afford the luxury of having any more than 1 player in the first team squad that we're waiting to

catch fire.  At the minute we have Gray and Slimani already in that category.

[Babylon]

2 minutes ago, Realist Guy In The Room said:

If Paul Pogba is on you rather than Jackson Irvine, you're mindset would be completely different and would most definitely effect your decision making and probably your control too as you'd be more inclined to be concentrating less on your touch.

 

Your defence of the player is fair enough as he probably isn't as bad as most are making out and if he had a run in the team, he may well prove decent.  My opinion is even from his limited pitch time, I haven't seen enough quality to think that he could hack the Premier League.  

 

I dont think as a team we can afford the luxury of having any more than 1 player in the first team squad that we're waiting to

catch fire.  At the minute we have Gray and Slimani already in that category.

There are players I'd rather lose from the squad long before Musa.

 

We have plenty of room for some wildcards, especially in a position we're not blessed with a huge number of players anyway. We aren't going to be able to sell him for the price we want, so that means just losing him on a loan. To get a good player we then have to go out and pump another £15m-£25m+.

 

We have a decent amount of cash, but I'm not sure we're in a position to be binning off £16m signings, loaning them out and spending the same amount again.

 

[FoxinNotts]

The question that should be asked is; what did the experts, and greater footballing world, see in Musa (24, Nigerian Captain and superstar, Moscows most highly prized asset) that the doubting FT members haven't?

[Vindaloo FOX]

5 hours ago, toddybad said:

Name me some good performances without using the words Everton or Barcelona. 

Spurs away , got a goal and played well . 

[CyprusFox]

3 hours ago, Babylon said:

What does it matter who is was against? Control and decision making are skills, whether you are playing United or Burton it's the same thing and not effected by the opposition. He's had an impact in most games pre season, far more that can be said of some.

 

The players also said he'd been on fire in training and I think his performances are looking positive.

I can't believe you seriously think that control and decision making skills are not affected by the opposition. Of course they are, there's no way you can compare the effect a top quality premiership player has on the opposition as opposed to an inferior Championship side player, hence the fact they're playing at a far superior level.

[FoxinNotts]

Maybe, just maybe, there is absolutely zero patience left in your average football fan. I'm not saying I feel sorry for footballers, far from it. But sometimes fans can be a really 'tough crowd'.

Are people really suggesting he's had enough of a chance (in a previous season title winning side to break into) to impress?

[Babylon]

20 minutes ago, CyprusFox said:

I can't believe you seriously think that control and decision making skills are not affected by the opposition. Of course they are, there's no way you can compare the effect a top quality premiership player has on the opposition as opposed to an inferior Championship side player, hence the fact they're playing at a far superior level.

If someone boots the ball 40 ft in the air to Musa stood on his own on the wing, whether it's Pogba who is 10m away or John Smith from the Dog and Duck 10m away, it's the same skill he needs to control that ball. Of course, premier league players are going to close down better etc. But I'm talking about basics skills and decision making here.

 

The way people continually talk is that he's not capable of controling the ball. If his ability is affected by the names he's facing. Then it's a mentality issue, not a skill issue.

[CyprusFox]

3 minutes ago, Babylon said:

If someone boots the ball 40 ft in the air to Musa stood on his own on the wing, whether it's Pogba who is 10m away or John Smith from the Dog and Duck 10m away, it's the same skill he needs to control that ball. Of course, premier league players are going to close down better etc. But I'm talking about basics skills and decision making here.

 

The way people continually talk is that he's not capable of controling the ball. If his ability is affected by the names he's facing. Then it's a mentality issue, not a skill issue.

His ability will be affected by the reason you've stated. Anyone with basic ability can look reasonably good against inferior opposition. I would probably give John smith from the Dog and Duck a run for his money but I wouldn't hold out much hope against Paul Pogba. Still not convinced by Musa.

[Realist Guy In The Room]

8 minutes ago, Babylon said:

If someone boots the ball 40 ft in the air to Musa stood on his own on the wing, whether it's Pogba who is 10m away or John Smith from the Dog and Duck 10m away, it's the same skill he needs to control that ball. Of course, premier league players are going to close down better etc. But I'm talking about basics skills and decision making here.

 

The way people continually talk is that he's not capable of controling the ball. If his ability is affected by the names he's facing. Then it's a mentality issue, not a skill issue.

You've answered your own argument.

 

Effect is effect whichever way you dress it up.  No good having the skill if the mentality wont allow it to prosper.  All goes to a players ability to contribute on a matchday which many dont see Musa doing.

 

Whether its ability or mentality it doesnt really matter if he doesnt do the business consistently.

 

 

[Babylon]

2 minutes ago, CyprusFox said:

His ability will be affected by the reason you've stated. Anyone with basic ability can look reasonably good against inferior opposition. I would probably give John smith from the Dog and Duck a run for his money but I wouldn't hold out much hope against Paul Pogba. Still not convinced by Musa.

He also looked good against Barca, Everton, Spurs, Palace, Hull, Arsenal... not lower league opposition.

[Babylon]

3 minutes ago, Realist Guy In The Room said:

You've answered your own argument.

 

Effect is effect whichever way you dress it up.  No good having the skill if the mentality wont allow it to prosper.  All goes to a players ability to contribute on a matchday which many dont see Musa doing.

 

Whether its ability or mentality it doesnt really matter if he doesnt do the business consistently.

 

 

Mentality is a totally different thing to work on, something like that could be affected by 100 different things from struggling to adapt to a new country to issues with the mrs.

 

I've said from early on he looks fragile mentally, the way he talks is very reserved and looks every inch a confidence player. That's different to "he's shit he can't control a ball".

[CyprusFox]

1 minute ago, Babylon said:

He also looked good against Barca, Everton, Spurs, Palace, Hull, Arsenal... not lower league opposition.

I really hope he proves the doubters wrong. I'm still not convinced by the few times he looked good, and remain in the doubters camp.

[Nick]

3 minutes ago, CyprusFox said:

I really hope he proves the doubters wrong. I'm still not convinced by the few times he looked good, and remain in the doubters camp.

I'm a doubter, which is fine (he may vastly improve he may not) - I just think people slandering him and labelling him as shit are disrespectful and lack appreciation for a number of factors.

[Realist Guy In The Room]

18 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Mentality is a totally different thing to work on, something like that could be affected by 100 different things from struggling to adapt to a new country to issues with the mrs.

 

I've said from early on he looks fragile mentally, the way he talks is very reserved and looks every inch a confidence player. That's different to "he's shit he can't control a ball".

I dont disagree they are different.

 

Honestly, I cant make my mind up whether I think he lacks confidence or quality.  Either way, I don't really want to use up a squad place to find out.

 

[Finn Claw II]

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/leicester-city-transfer-news-hull-297610

 

£16m for Musa - if Fenerbache have bid that, then send him on his way.