Unpopular Opinions You Hold

[Sampson]

18 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

This is my take. I feel Scotland is less attached to Britain's imperial past. The Saltire offers a ready made replacement for the national identity while many relate to the Irish or see the UK as a primarily English entity. I'm not sure how much Scottish Independence makes sense from an economic perspective, it feels more culturally driven. I worry that an Independent Scotland will prolong the dominance of aspects of English culture I dislike inside England while the idealised vision many have for an independent Scotland is unrealistic. I have a lot more in common on values and what I would like the UK to look like with the average Indy voter than the average Unionist. I would like to move more towards a post-nationalist society so I cannot side with the SNP although I also don't feel particular attachment to the Union in its current form and we look set to stay this way for the foreseeable future. I reckon I would support Indy if I was Scottish more out of hope than faith and because I'd end up going with the more positive vision rather than the fearful one. Scottish Lib Dems are almost exclusively Unionist, but I feel this has become self selecting due to party policy rather than being a result of ideology. I know a lot of Scottish people who vote SNP or Green who were former LD voters.  

This is very similar to my feelings too. Although I'm not sure I could actually pull the trigger on voting for independence like you. I definitely sympathise with a lot of the reasons Scots want independence though and sympathise with the view of society the SNP put forward more in comparison to the one the unionists put forward.

 

I would like to move the idea of nation state and national identity and the EU so far is the best way we've come up with in my mind at least (and I think deep down that is the ultimate goal of the EU too), which was always my '#1 reason for voting remain, although there were many others too. So it's difficult to me to genuinely support a nationalist party.

 

But I share much more the ideals of the SNP of the society they want to see are much more like the ideals than most unionists and I think Ireland, at least in the past 20 years or so since the chains of the old Irish Catholic conservative dogma have begun to be been thrown off, has also become more and more like a society that looks like more like a society going in the direction of the world I would like to envisage than UK currently is. I also dislike a lot of the idealised and dominant aspects of English culture and neither really have a particular attachment to the UK as a union in the modern world either, especially following Brexit.

Edited 18 April 2022 by Sampson

[bovril]

I'm much more attached to England than the UK to be honest. My main opposition to Scottish independence is that it'd be messy, which is not really a great argument long term. In an ideal world I would like to see an independent England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland all with close cooperation ala Benelux and all in or closely aligned to the EU. 

[leicsmac]

46 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Me too, 

Scotland is a great country with many assets and shouldn’t need to be in any kind of political union.

 

On the above topic and with reference to this thread:

 

Political union on some matters is, no matter the denial, now a matter of civilisational survival (at least at the current level of "comfort") for any length of time beyond the next few decades.

[Strokes]

4 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

On the above topic and with reference to this thread:

 

Political union on some matters is, no matter the denial, now a matter of civilisational survival (at least at the current level of "comfort") for any length of time beyond the next few decades.

Collaboration maybe, Union is not required.

[bovril]

I'm wondering if there's anything leicesmac can't link to civilisational survival. Our poor record from corner kicks, perhaps. 

 

 

[LiberalFox]

I don't know why he wastes so much effort on such a trivial matter when nobody is trying to address the far more serious threat of the heat death of the universe.

[Dunge]

7 minutes ago, bovril said:

I'm wondering if there's anything leicesmac can't link to civilisational survival. Our poor record from corner kicks, perhaps. 

 

 

If we don’t stop conceding from corners next season, I’m opening a coal mine out of protest.

[Sampson]

37 minutes ago, bovril said:

I'm much more attached to England than the UK to be honest. My main opposition to Scottish independence is that it'd be messy, which is not really a great argument long term. In an ideal world I would like to see an independent England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland all with close cooperation ala Benelux and all in or closely aligned to the EU. 

I think that I would probably be happy with at this point in time too. An independent England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland all within the EU or at least the EEC but with 1st country status for each other in  the British Isles, rather than the 2nd country status EU countries have in each other countries.

 

So English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish citizens are all legally not considered foreigners in each others countries and can stay in each other’s countries and move freely for any reason indefinitely.

 

That is how the Nordic countries and the Nordic Union operates - they’re all within the EEC, not necessarily the EU, but Nordic citizens have even stronger than EU/EEC rights in each other’s countries- so a Danish or Norwegian citizen is essentially treated the same as a Swedish citizen in Sweden for example. But they’re all independent nations and their governments can still follow the voters of their individual populations.

Edited 18 April 2022 by Sampson

[The Horse's Mouth]

Scotland would be worse off without us and have a pretty good deal tbh, only thing that seems to be the main motivation is nationalism. SNP would be ****ed if they don't have Westminster to use as a scapegoat

[leicsmac]

17 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Collaboration maybe, Union is not required.

To-mae-to, to-mah-to IMO, but yeah, can see where you're coming from and that would probably be a better word. Unified response driven by shared political ambition, anyway.

 

12 minutes ago, bovril said:

I'm wondering if there's anything leicesmac can't link to civilisational survival. Our poor record from corner kicks, perhaps. 

 

 

I'm pretty sure just how shit we are at corners is inexplicable by any "big picture" analysis. It seems to defy the laws of physics.

 

But in all seriousness, the talk was of political relationships and the way those relationships develop (or not) does have bearing on how things will all pan out in terms of that bigger picture.

 

9 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

I don't know why he wastes so much effort on such a trivial matter when nobody is trying to address the far more serious threat of the heat death of the universe.

Walk before we can run, mon ami.

[LiberalFox]

20 minutes ago, Sampson said:

I think that I would probably be happy with at this point in time too. An independent England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland all within the EU or at least the EEC but with 1st country status for each other in  the British Isles, rather than the 2nd country status EU countries have in each other countries.

 

So English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish citizens are all legally not considered foreigners in each others countries and can stay in each other’s countries and move freely for any reason indefinitely.

 

That is how the Nordic countries and the Nordic Union operates - they’re all within the EEC, not necessarily the EU, but Nordic citizens have even stronger than EU/EEC rights in each other’s countries- so a Danish or Norwegian citizen is essentially treated the same as a Swedish citizen in Sweden for example. But they’re all independent nations and their governments can still follow the voters of their individual populations.

I used to be a proponent of this decades ago, it is very much what I would like. The end of English dominance in British Isles politics, the opportunity for less division with the Irish. The economic benefits of the common market. Issue is/was does anyone want this? It feels like the Scottish would prefer full indy and the Irish have spent centuries being oppressed and are happy being fully independent. I don't think the English want it either. 

Edited 18 April 2022 by LiberalFox

[Oxfordfox83]

On 08/04/2022 at 15:35, LiberalFox said:

Since Linehan and Rowling were mentioned and I'm very into trans issues at the moment I thought I'd share my opinions on them. 

 

Linehan acts like a typical narcissist. As far as I know his interest in trans people only started when he used a caricatured trans person in an episode of the "IT Crowd". He got some push back and bore a grudge against trans people ever since. For some reason he installed himself as some kind of "trans expert" despite no basis for having any authority on the matter. His behaviour started to go off the rails when he started to lose his monopoly to people like Rowling. Hopefully he'll go back to actually doing something productive with his talents, he's a good comedy writer. It would be nice also if society didn't just accept a random cishet white dude who writes comedy as a self-appointed expert on a minority group. 

 

As for Rowling I think she is likely trans herself. She's spoken about how she questioned her gender identity growing up. She likes to write under the name "Robert Galbraith" - she said that Robert is just a name she likes. Feminism offers women a way to challenge cisnormative society so it attracts a lot of gender non-conforming women. I've been reading a lot of the latest literature on trans issues and one of the recent trends is a massive increase in adolescent girls seeking trans healthcare. I wonder if this is a reflection of the difficulties young girls who aren't cisnormative face. Forced gender roles are much worse for girls to deal with. Unfortunately people like Rowling have been conditioned to see transness as inherently bad. Something to be grown out of, that birth sex is immutable. 

 

The reality is that gender is a spectrum. In a way we are all on it. There is no "correct" amount of masculinity or femininity but the majority of the population fit around a norm. The majority of detransitioners seem to be women by birth. I do wonder if many girls are turning to seeking transition in order to validate their own identity rather than because of it. 

 

 

I think Rowling has been brave and foolish in making herself a target opponent in this debate. I also think she’s expressed herself poorly at times, but also that the quotes she’s slammed for are some way into an argument usually. 
 

In essence, I believe what she’s saying is that the rights of the 1-2% of men who identify as women shouldn’t supersede the rights of the 95% of women who identify as women. And I agree with her on that.

[Sampson]

4 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

I used to be a proponent of this decades ago, it is very much what I would like. The end of English dominance in British Isles politics, the opportunity for less division with the Irish. The economic benefits of the common market. Issue is/was does anyone want this? It feels like the Scottish would prefer full indy and the Irish have spent centuries being oppressed and are happy being fully independent. I don't think the English want it either. 

The Irish happy being fully independent is the point though.
 

Ireland and UK already are 1st countries to each other countries, rather than 2nd countries to other EU nations. In the same way the Nordic countries are.

 

The suggestion is essentially just means Scotland, Wales and England follow the same current model of Ireland - extending the agreements between Ireland and the UK and the rights of Irish and British citizens to an independent England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland. 

It wouldn’t hinder the laws or agreements they could make within their own countries. It also wouldn’t massively hinder even controlling their borders as it only applies to citizens not residents. Just as the Irish and British can currently have separate migration policies or separate policies on which countries are allowed visa free travel.

[Dahnsouff]

1 hour ago, Oxfordfox83 said:

I think Rowling has been brave and foolish in making herself a target opponent in this debate. I also think she’s expressed herself poorly at times, but also that the quotes she’s slammed for are some way into an argument usually. 
 

In essence, I believe what she’s saying is that the rights of the 1-2% of men who identify as women shouldn’t supersede the rights of the 95% of women who identify as women. And I agree with her on that.

Tbh, how can someone not agree with that? 

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Tbh, how can someone not agree with that? 

Perhaps someone who believes that is an oversimplification of a much more complex matter, both socially and scientifically.

[Dahnsouff]

6 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Perhaps someone who believes that is an oversimplification of a much more complex matter, both socially and scientifically.

Or perhaps it is someone who would prefer to deflect the question rather than answer it. 

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Or perhaps it is someone who would prefer to deflect the question rather than answer it. 

Bit late over here, but if an answer and explanation is required, it will be forthcoming. Anything that might help better understanding of the most marginalised community in the UK.

[LiberalFox]

I don't really have much to say because I too don't think minorities should have greater rights than anyone else. 

[Dahnsouff]

41 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Bit late over here, but if an answer and explanation is required, it will be forthcoming. Anything that might help better understanding of the most marginalised community in the UK.

Sure this can wait, have a good evening

[Dahnsouff]

15 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

I don't really have much to say because I too don't think minorities should have greater rights than anyone else. 

This was kind of my point, but I can see that if the majority behaves in less than ethical manner toward the minority, albeit from a pejorative position, it could/should be preferential to the minority.

 

edit: I did not think that this was a position in play here

Edited 18 April 2022 by Dahnsouff

[Webbo]

Taskmaster isn't that great. 

[Parafox]

1 hour ago, Webbo said:

Taskmaster isn't that great. 

Pretty shite and repetitive IMO. 

[SouthStandUpperTier]

Taskmaster is only as good as the contestants they have on it. There are only so many good comedians out there and they are now up to 10+ series so they are having to scrape the barrel a bit.

[Jimothy]

2 hours ago, SouthStandUpperTier said:

Taskmaster is only as good as the contestants they have on it. There are only so many good comedians out there and they are now up to 10+ series so they are having to scrape the barrel a bit.

Series 13 I think. Each 5 series there's a champion of champions for the winners of those previous 5.

 

I wonder if the aim is to get 25 series and have a champion of champions of champions for the 5 winners of the CoC.

[Jon the Hat]

11 hours ago, LiberalFox said:

I used to be a proponent of this decades ago, it is very much what I would like. The end of English dominance in British Isles politics, the opportunity for less division with the Irish. The economic benefits of the common market. Issue is/was does anyone want this? It feels like the Scottish would prefer full indy and the Irish have spent centuries being oppressed and are happy being fully independent. I don't think the English want it either. 

England will always dominate British politics by dint of being by far the largest population.  That is not to say Scots don't have an equal chance to become influential.  You could argue with 2 parliaments to aim for they have more chance.