Unpopular Opinions You Hold

[NasPb]

I've always liked moussa sissoko and moussa dembele a lot, can't explain why just players I've liked. Definitely not because of their great first names and not because of their afilliation with spuds

[brucey]

4 hours ago, LiberalFox said:

You can be non-binary too. There's no such thing as "totally cis" really but I didn't want to explain non-binary trans identity, totally cis to me would be someone who never felt the need to question their gender much. Cis merely means "not trans". I think if you are "ambivalent" to your birth sex/gender and it occupies so much of your thought that you seek external guidance then it is likely you aren't cis. It feels a bit rude of me to speculate on someone's gender identity but then she shares her essay openly, it is on her website. I was reading it again to remind myself of common anti-trans talking points and it struck me. Non binary identities weren't really available to her when she was growing up. Non binary people intensely dislike having to conform to binary gender stereotypes. It's also true that the same person could choose to describe themselves as non-binary, gender non-conforming or simply to be an equally valid member of their birth sex. All that really matters is that last bit : "it’s fine not to feel pink, frilly and compliant inside your own head; it’s OK to feel confused, dark, both sexual and non-sexual, unsure of what or who you are." The parts in bold are affirmative. Establishing a positive internal narrative like this is what is important. It's why conversion therapies where people are convinced that the way they feel is fundamentally wrong are so damaging.  

This is similar to my opinion on the matter. The definition of 'trans' is however very uncertain. Does it apply to someone with only gendered social role dysphoria without body dysphoria? Because many young females fall into this category and many people consider this to qualify for transgender in recent years, whereas 30 years ago 'trans' might have only referred to transsexuals who have had medical interventions. I would also add that the way I've made sense of it all, is to consider gender roles (man/woman/non-binary) and sex (male/female/intersex) as entirely different things. e.g transwomen are women, and more specifically male women - I don't see this as a contradiction.

 

You may have come across this but if you haven't, I think you might find this youtube channel interesting: https://youtube.com/c/upperhandMARS. He's a transman who has interviewed many trans people and detransitioners on the channel. If you look for the videos with one-to-one conversations, the guest often chats about what they think contributed to their decision to transition, starting from analysing their own childhood (including any trauma), issues around sexuality, gendered stereotypes etc. They discuss it from an exploratory and relatively unbiased point of view, which is difficult to find elsewhere with both sides of the debate being so polarising.

 

Edited 9 April 2022 by brucey

[SemperEadem]

Unless you are really into cask the selection of beer in Leicester is so middle of the road.

[LiberalFox]

7 hours ago, brucey said:

This is similar to my opinion on the matter. The definition of 'trans' is however very uncertain. Does it apply to someone with only gendered social role dysphoria without body dysphoria? Because many young females fall into this category and many people consider this to qualify for transgender in recent years, whereas 30 years ago 'trans' might have only referred to transsexuals who have had medical interventions. I would also add that the way I've made sense of it all, is to consider gender roles (man/woman/non-binary) and sex (male/female/intersex) as entirely different things. e.g transwomen are women, and more specifically male women - I don't see this as a contradiction.

 

You may have come across this but if you haven't, I think you might find this youtube channel interesting: https://youtube.com/c/upperhandMARS. He's a transman who has interviewed many trans people and detransitioners on the channel. If you look for the videos with one-to-one conversations, the guest often chats about what they think contributed to their decision to transition, starting from analysing their own childhood (including any trauma), issues around sexuality, gendered stereotypes etc. They discuss it from an exploratory and relatively unbiased point of view, which is difficult to find elsewhere with both sides of the debate being so polarising.

 

Trans is a social term so it's a matter of personal choice. There are a small minority who think it should only apply to people who have had medical intervention. Also not sure how easy it is to distinguish "pure" social role dysphoria from body dysphoria though I'd expect people sure of the former wouldn't see themselves as trans but I don't know.

 

 

 

 

Edited 10 April 2022 by LiberalFox

[brucey]

3 hours ago, LiberalFox said:

Trans is a social term so it's a matter of personal choice. There are a small minority who think it should only apply to people who have had medical intervention. Also not sure how easy it is to distinguish "pure" social role dysphoria from body dysphoria though I'd expect people sure of the former wouldn't see themselves as trans but I don't know.

The two types of dysphoria are easily distinguishable. In trans circles, it is generally considered that body dysphoria is not needed to identify yourself as trans. Trans people who believe that having body dysphoria is a necessary criteria to be called "trans" are shunned within the community and called "truscum". 

[LiberalFox]

48 minutes ago, brucey said:

The two types of dysphoria are easily distinguishable. In trans circles, it is generally considered that body dysphoria is not needed to identify yourself as trans. Trans people who believe that having body dysphoria is a necessary criteria to be called "trans" are shunned within the community and called "truscum". 

Communities tend to dislike gatekeepers. Transmedicalists tend to want to gatekeep around people who meet the medical definition of gender dysphoria. I see trans as much wider than that. But I was thinking it wouldn't be accurate to say just because a woman likes wearing trousers or a man likes the colour pink that they are trans. It comes down to how people see themselves. Same way you don't have to provide a sex tape to identify as something other than hetero. 

 

Actually now you mention it the *only* trans people Rowling seems to accept are basically transmeds like Debbie Hayton.  

Edited 10 April 2022 by LiberalFox

[Parafox]

Heardle is shit.

[Free Falling Foxes]

I guess it's unpopular because this fella needed to apologise.

Women ARE more emotional than men.

Yes, men can/do cry, but women far more so.

[SouthStandUpperTier]

3 hours ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

I guess it's unpopular because this fella needed to apologise.

Women ARE more emotional than men.

Yes, men can/do cry, but women far more so.

There are many more emotions than just crying though, although I suspect that's what he was implying. Anyone who witnessed Zaha's embarrassing diva behaviour on Sunday would think men can be just as 'emotional' as women.

 

Even if it is true, it's the kind of crass generalisation he needs to avoid in this day and age if he doesn't want to get cancelled. 

Edited 13 April 2022 by SouthStandUpperTier

[leicsmac]

7 hours ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

I guess it's unpopular because this fella needed to apologise.

Women ARE more emotional than men.

Yes, men can/do cry, but women far more so.

I think that's down to societal expectations, though. Even though there has been progress made, it's still often expected that blokes show no emotions but one - rage/anger.

 

Women aren't inherently more emotional, and so the guy should probably apologise for that inaccurate assumption.

[Jon the Hat]

On 08/04/2022 at 22:35, LiberalFox said:

Since Linehan and Rowling were mentioned and I'm very into trans issues at the moment I thought I'd share my opinions on them. 

 

Linehan acts like a typical narcissist. As far as I know his interest in trans people only started when he used a caricatured trans person in an episode of the "IT Crowd". He got some push back and bore a grudge against trans people ever since. For some reason he installed himself as some kind of "trans expert" despite no basis for having any authority on the matter. His behaviour started to go off the rails when he started to lose his monopoly to people like Rowling. Hopefully he'll go back to actually doing something productive with his talents, he's a good comedy writer. It would be nice also if society didn't just accept a random cishet white dude who writes comedy as a self-appointed expert on a minority group. 

 

As for Rowling I think she is likely trans herself. She's spoken about how she questioned her gender identity growing up. She likes to write under the name "Robert Galbraith" - she said that Robert is just a name she likes. Feminism offers women a way to challenge cisnormative society so it attracts a lot of gender non-conforming women. I've been reading a lot of the latest literature on trans issues and one of the recent trends is a massive increase in adolescent girls seeking trans healthcare. I wonder if this is a reflection of the difficulties young girls who aren't cisnormative face. Forced gender roles are much worse for girls to deal with. Unfortunately people like Rowling have been conditioned to see transness as inherently bad. Something to be grown out of, that birth sex is immutable. 

 

The reality is that gender is a spectrum. In a way we are all on it. There is no "correct" amount of masculinity or femininity but the majority of the population fit around a norm. The majority of detransitioners seem to be women by birth. I do wonder if many girls are turning to seeking transition in order to validate their own identity rather than because of it. 

You are very close to right here I think but not quite making the leap.  Rowling questioned her gender identity when growing up, but then like the rest of our generation realized that being a woman didn't mean being "the feminine ideal".  Sex is indeed immutable (which is why 99.9% if humans are binary sex wise), but who you are isn't defined by it except in the biological sense where it absolutely is.

 

Yes you are completely right on the bit in bold - and the vast majority of these girls are not trans, they are struggling through puberty in an increasingly tough environment.  Worth reading a little about how these things happen in waves - false memory syndrome, anorexia, now this, and can have life long implications.

 

[Jon the Hat]

On 10/04/2022 at 19:15, LiberalFox said:

Communities tend to dislike gatekeepers. Transmedicalists tend to want to gatekeep around people who meet the medical definition of gender dysphoria. I see trans as much wider than that. But I was thinking it wouldn't be accurate to say just because a woman likes wearing trousers or a man likes the colour pink that they are trans. It comes down to how people see themselves. Same way you don't have to provide a sex tape to identify as something other than hetero. 

 

Actually now you mention it the *only* trans people Rowling seems to accept are basically transmeds like Debbie Hayton.  

I am not all up on the terms you are using, but your last point I think should be clarified as the only trans people Rowling (and many others) accepts are those who rather than just saying they are trans (sometimes while fully male physically, dressed as a man and with a beard) are actually in some hard to define way making a change.  It is nonsense to buy that we should treat all of these people as women.  TWAW only stands up if you set some kind of boundary.  Otherwise you are just taking away the definition of women.  

[LiberalFox]

14 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I am not all up on the terms you are using, but your last point I think should be clarified as the only trans people Rowling (and many others) accepts are those who rather than just saying they are trans (sometimes while fully male physically, dressed as a man and with a beard) are actually in some hard to define way making a change.  It is nonsense to buy that we should treat all of these people as women.  TWAW only stands up if you set some kind of boundary.  Otherwise you are just taking away the definition of women.  

I know what she and others believe and I believe otherwise but without both groups getting together and listening and resolving their differences there isn't much to be said. I think it is a shame that there is so much friction when there is a lot that both groups would agree on. I've always thought the expectations on women, especially young ones are awful. I do suspect some young women who don't fit "the feminine ideal" as you put it are turning to this as an escape. But that's something I suspect and I won't treat my suspicion as more valid than objective science as it emerges. 

 

There's an interim report on healthcare for young people in England:

 

https://cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Cass-Review-Interim-Report-Final-Web-Accessible.pdf

 

What's clear is that this still isn't really well understood and also in England that like many things, there isn't adequate provision of services to meet the demand from the NHS. 

 

"TWAW only stands up if you set some kind of boundary.  Otherwise you are just taking away the definition of women. " The problem with that is the social boundary that inevitably gets set is over presentation, unless we are all to have ID cards with our genitals on them or to pass a chromosome check to enter a public toilet. That leads to butch women constantly being accused of being trans. It just seems misogynistic to define women that way. 

 

 

[ozleicester]

2 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

the vast majority of these girls are not trans, they are struggling through puberty in an increasingly tough environment

thanks doctor

 

 

 

[LiberalFox]

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ6o36XL0CpYb6U5dNBiXHQ

 

This is a great criticism of Harry Potter. I highly recommend the whole video but the first 13 minutes are really relevant to this discussion.

 

Rowling seems to be fatphobic and misogynistic herself. She sees it as acceptable to mock people for their weight and to mock women as ugly and she sees masculine features in women as ugly. 

 

I can't help but feel Rowling's particular dislike of transwomen stems from her own misogyny. She didn't *choose* to be a woman and she faced horrible misogyny. In her eyes men are now just trying to *choose* to be women and if they really want to be women then they should have to experience the same misogyny that she did. So she holds transwomen to the same standards as misogynists hold all women. I don't buy that this is about the "definition of woman" any more than people complained gay marriage would take away the "definition of marriage". 

 

Her fatphobia seems to be a way to target men with the same sort of expectations that are placed on women. How dare fat men be able to just exist in a way fat women cannot. We should make all fat people hate their body! She doesn't understand men and like a number of feminists she sees men as having things easy. The problem isn't "trans ideology" it's a systemic one. Maybe she shouldn't be teaching children that it's okay to make fun of people for being fat or that women who look a bit masculine are ugly. 

 

Now I don't disagree there are a few issues involving trans people. Trans athletes in competitive sport for example. It doesn't really affect many people at all though and right now trans athletes are essentially banned from competing at all. They don't wield the power here. In a just society these would be resolved in an objective manner while maintaining dignity and respect for trans athletes.

 

the tl;dr is that the reason transwomen are having their bodies scrutinised including being mocked if they have male genitalia is driven by misogyny. There's nothing like the same body related obsession with transmen. This is why more men are anti-trans than women despite the popular arguments being centred around women's rights and women's safety being under threat. 

 

Edit: The rest of the video is interesting though I don't fully agree with his views on politics.

Edited 14 April 2022 by LiberalFox

[Tim'llFixIt]

2 hours ago, LiberalFox said:

I know what she and others believe and I believe otherwise but without both groups getting together and listening and resolving their differences there isn't much to be said. I think it is a shame that there is so much friction when there is a lot that both groups would agree on. I've always thought the expectations on women, especially young ones are awful. I do suspect some young women who don't fit "the feminine ideal" as you put it are turning to this as an escape. But that's something I suspect and I won't treat my suspicion as more valid than objective science as it emerges. 

 

There's an interim report on healthcare for young people in England:

 

https://cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Cass-Review-Interim-Report-Final-Web-Accessible.pdf

 

What's clear is that this still isn't really well understood and also in England that like many things, there isn't adequate provision of services to meet the demand from the NHS. 

 

"TWAW only stands up if you set some kind of boundary.  Otherwise you are just taking away the definition of women. " The problem with that is the social boundary that inevitably gets set is over presentation, unless we are all to have ID cards with our genitals on them or to pass a chromosome check to enter a public toilet. That leads to butch women constantly being accused of being trans. It just seems misogynistic to define women that way. 

 

 

Never heard such waffle in my life

[Nalis]

19 hours ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

I guess it's unpopular because this fella needed to apologise.

Women ARE more emotional than men.

Yes, men can/do cry, but women far more so.

I think his point on emotions wasnt right but he's got a point on women's teams capitulating after going a goal down. But the reason for that is the difference in quality, not emotions as the gulf in quality in the womens game is still huge.

 

In England's qualifying group there are three 'levels' if you will - England (top band), Austria/Northern Ireland (middle band) and Luxembourg/North Macedonia/Latvia (bottom band).

 

If you translated the quality into a mens group its like having England in a group with Cyprus/Lithuania as the middle band and the under 18s of Andorra, San Marino and Liechtenstein as the bottom band.

 

So like in the mens game when England go a goal up against a Cyprus, usually quality and fitness comes through at it ends up being a 5 or 6 nil win - similar to what happened with Northern Ireland women v England womens the other night.

[The Horse's Mouth]

20 hours ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

I guess it's unpopular because this fella needed to apologise.

Women ARE more emotional than men.

Yes, men can/do cry, but women far more so.

The thing that made me laugh about this whole thing, was it was about a bunch of women being emotional about being called emotional. If he was wrong there wouldn't have been a controversy about it 

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

The thing that made me laugh about this whole thing, was it was about a bunch of women being emotional about being called emotional. If he was wrong there wouldn't have been a controversy about it 

But it's by no means certain that he is right about it, or if he is it's due to a factor he's seemingly not considering in favour of just stereotyping. See above.

[Jon the Hat]

23 hours ago, ozleicester said:

thanks doctor

You really think this generation suddenly has hundreds of thousands of trans kids when every generation up to this point didn't?

[Dahnsouff]

The level of emotional resilience amongst younger generations is falling. Perhaps that’s just me being old, but I did post this in the right thread.

[LiberalFox]

I think younger people are just allowing themselves more freedom to express emotion. Emotional resilience is an internal thing. But also emotional resilience is a learnable skill. I was much much less emotionally resilient when I was younger. It is quite likely that as we age we look at younger people and we compare them to our current self rather than our younger self. 

Edited 15 April 2022 by LiberalFox

[leicsmac]

26 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

You really think this generation suddenly has hundreds of thousands of trans kids when every generation up to this point didn't?

I'm inclined to think that every generation up to this point had a great many LGBT people who stayed closeted for fear of social ostracising, government sanction and much worse.

 

Thankfully, the current generation might not have to suffer those quite as much.

 

20 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

The level of emotional resilience amongst younger generations is falling. Perhaps that’s just me being old, but I did post this in the right thread.

That resilience falling indicates it is less needed. That it is less needed is a sign of success, not failure.

[ozleicester]

37 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

You really think this generation suddenly has hundreds of thousands of trans kids when every generation up to this point didn't?

Do you really think they didnt exist? 

Do you believe there are no gay professional footballers, or could it be that they ar not acceptable currently and until they are they will remain hidden?

Do you blieve that the increase in LGBTQI+ identifying people is because of advertising or something   Or maybe as they begin to feel safe, they are more likely to "come out" and the numbers will increase. 

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/when-hubble-stared-at-nothing-for-100-hours

 

Edited 15 April 2022 by ozleicester

[LiberalFox]

20 hours ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

The thing that made me laugh about this whole thing, was it was about a bunch of women being emotional about being called emotional. If he was wrong there wouldn't have been a controversy about it 

I think people are "emotional" because they see it as sexist. I'm sure some people think it is right. I don't really care what some sports coach thinks about the differences in women and men though. There are probably scientific studies. He might as well have said women are more emotional than elephants. Women compete against women not men nor elephants. It's the same as any discussion of women's sports ends up with a bunch of men pointing out how women aren't as physically strong as men. It doesn't add anything.