Maguire - England debut

[the fox]

2 hours ago, ZeGuy said:

The PL has slowly but surely killed England's national XI. 

the only elite player there is kane!
i look at it this way, all the X factor players are foreign, spurs, even though kane is amazing, eriksen is the difference maker, chelsea, you got hazad, man city you have KDB, pool you have coutinho,united you have mata/pogba. and even in the title winning season, vardy was amazing but the magic man was riyad.

 

that's the reality i guess, a lot of english people block talents like the coutinho's or riyad's of the world in favor of the zaha's and gray's

you can't just keep picking the physically talented kids and complain that you don't have players like iniesta or isco

[Countryfox]

7 minutes ago, the fox said:

the only elite player there is kane!
i look at it this way, all the X factor players are foreign, spurs, even though kane is amazing, eriksen is the difference maker, chelsea, you got hazad, man city you have KDB, pool you have coutinho,united you have mata/pogba. and even in the title winning season, vardy was amazing but the magic man was riyad.

 

that's the reality i guess, a lot of english people block talents like the coutinho's or riyad's of the world in favor of the zaha's and gray's

you can't just keep picking the physically talented kids and complain that you don't have players like iniesta or isco

 

Never miss an opportunity ..   

[mad biker]

3 hours ago, somebum said:

Pathetic 

Who was ?

 

[Sampson]

2 hours ago, ZeGuy said:

The PL has slowly but surely killed England's national XI. 

We were just as shit back in 1992 tbf and back in the 70s and 80s we were worse - we never eased through qualifying or usually made the knock-our stages back then.

 

The 90 and 96 sides were great but they were well overdue given what we put up with before and let's be honest Gascoigne and Lineker/Shearer were a bit part of carrying us back then - I rate Kane as being able to be a similar talisman to Shearer and Lineker but we don't have a Gascoigne.

 

That side of the mid-00s was full of genuinely quality players at a time when the PL was absolutely dominating Europe and often had 3 of the 4 semi-finalists whos star players were all English - Neville, Ashley Cole, Terry, Ferdinand, Campbell, Beckham, Gerrard, Scholes, Lampard, Joe Cole, Owen and Rooney - Kane is the only one who would come close to making that squad today - that side should have at least made a semi-final especially in 2004 - but Sven wasted it.

 

So I don't think it's the Premier League's fault neceserially. Our problems go back much further than that.

Edited 8 October 2017 by Sampson

[the fox]

13 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

 

Never miss an opportunity ..   

hey, you see it as an opportunity, i see it as propaganda. but seriously, the english seem to have a problem with physically weak players (which riyad can be one of the biggest examples because of his small frame), and until they addres that, the english national team will always stay behind the big nations

[the fox]

8 minutes ago, Sampson said:

 

That side of the mid-00s was full of genuinely quality players at a time when the PL was absolutely dominating Europe and often had 3 of the 4 semi-finalists whos star players were all English - Neville, Ashley Cole, Terry, Ferdinand, Campbell, Beckham, Gerrard, Schooled, Lanpard, Joe Cole, Owen and Rooney - Kane is the only one who would come close to making that squad today - that side should have at least made a semi-final especially in 2004 - but Sven wasted it.

they seem like those PES names

 

[Nick]

3 hours ago, tylesta said:

The tempo and style of play has been like it for years.

Yep it's the FA blueprint of footballing style - taught across every age group until they are all dogshit.

[eddylcfc]

Looks like Harry isn't a fan of Michael Keane!

[Kitchandro]

7 hours ago, Sampson said:

We were just as shit back in 1992 tbf and back in the 70s and 80s we were worse - we never eased through qualifying or usually made the knock-our stages back then.

 

The 90 and 96 sides were great but they were well overdue given what we put up with before and let's be honest Gascoigne and Lineker/Shearer were a bit part of carrying us back then - I rate Kane as being able to be a similar talisman to Shearer and Lineker but we don't have a Gascoigne.

 

That side of the mid-00s was full of genuinely quality players at a time when the PL was absolutely dominating Europe and often had 3 of the 4 semi-finalists whos star players were all English - Neville, Ashley Cole, Terry, Ferdinand, Campbell, Beckham, Gerrard, Scholes, Lampard, Joe Cole, Owen and Rooney - Kane is the only one who would come close to making that squad today - that side should have at least made a semi-final especially in 2004 - but Sven wasted it.

 

So I don't think it's the Premier League's fault neceserially. Our problems go back much further than that.

Most of those players were massively overrated and benefited hugely from playing with great foreign players.

 

Sven was a poor manager but those players didn't even qualify in 2008. They really weren't that good.

[FoxFossil]

Is the best midfielder in the country really Henderson? Really.

[CosbehFox]

9 hours ago, the fox said:

that's the reality i guess, a lot of english people block talents like the coutinho's or riyad's of the world in favor of the zaha's and gray's

you can't just keep picking the physically talented kids and complain that you don't have players like iniesta or isco

I suggest you  and a lot of others look at our youth teams and the results they are pulling off. The players are coming - Sancho at Dortmund is a joy to watch, and more of them moving abroad to develop their game. 

[norwichfox]

12 hours ago, weller54 said:

It was the equivalent of him playing for us against the likes of Rochdale!.... 

I painted my window frames today so opted to watch them drying as it more exciting than watching England!!... 

 

Wish I'd have known, I'd have come round and helped you watch.....

[Ashley]

Currently sat here in Vilnius waiting for our flight home. England fans loving Maguire out here.

 

But i do agree things need to change and fast theres no aggresion or erge to do anything so much sideways shit. Weve got some good players in that side but when fit.. Vardy NEEDS to be patner Kane. Alli behind the both and go from there.

 

The FA and the whole structure needs changing and a model needs to be put into place - something similar to Germany where they have all their teams playing the same formation and way as the first team so IF one of the young lads do get a chance they arent changing styles of play etc.

[Vlad the Fox]

England play like a team that obsesses with stats, pass completion, possession and as a result it stifles any creativity, any mavericks who could lighten up the pitch with a bit of individualism , no one seems brave enough to take a risk that could reflect negatively on their post match analysis. I think this is why the players don't appear too bothered, they know we're going to do nothing until something changes yet can't say anything as they'd be out the squad.

 

Also England need to stop picking players simply because they've made the bench of a big team, lingared for Fuchs sake. And the Fifa need to ditch some of these nations into a pre World Cup qualifier competition because playing teams who's only objective is to lose by as few goals as possible is killing the qualifiers and we could lose a couple of international breaks. 

[weller54]

18 minutes ago, norwichfox said:

Wish I'd have known, I'd have come round and helped you watch.....

You don't know what you missed.. I'll talk you through it. 

First I washed down the frames throughly using soapy water,  then lightly sanded them. Dried them off and applied a thin coat of sadolin extra (teak).. Semi gloss... 

(You still with me on this?)..... 

Well!!.. It must of been a good 90 minutes before it was touch dry but I had fun watching it get drier and drier by the minute!.. 

Let me know your mobile number as I'm planning on doing another one today and I'll give you a call to arrange a time...you won't regret it. 

Oh.. Forgot to mention.. I used a 1" brush. 

 

Edited 9 October 2017 by weller54

[norwichfox]

fookin' tease,.... you've no idea how much I like thin coats.....did you use thinners to make it dry quicker?

[ZeGuy]

10 hours ago, Sampson said:

We were just as shit back in 1992 tbf and back in the 70s and 80s we were worse - we never eased through qualifying or usually made the knock-our stages back then.

 

The 90 and 96 sides were great but they were well overdue given what we put up with before and let's be honest Gascoigne and Lineker/Shearer were a bit part of carrying us back then - I rate Kane as being able to be a similar talisman to Shearer and Lineker but we don't have a Gascoigne.

 

That side of the mid-00s was full of genuinely quality players at a time when the PL was absolutely dominating Europe and often had 3 of the 4 semi-finalists whos star players were all English - Neville, Ashley Cole, Terry, Ferdinand, Campbell, Beckham, Gerrard, Scholes, Lampard, Joe Cole, Owen and Rooney - Kane is the only one who would come close to making that squad today - that side should have at least made a semi-final especially in 2004 - but Sven wasted it.

 

So I don't think it's the Premier League's fault neceserially. Our problems go back much further than that.

I don't know.

 

The PL tends to rely massively on generally confirmed/star foreign players and rarely give a chance to the young british ones. This has necessarily an impact in the long term on the english football academies. The results of such policy don't show over night and I think we're only now starting to see them.

 

I found the quality of the starting english XI genuinely average, bar Kane and Alli, Maguire to an extent. The midfield especially is shocking. Southgate won't lead you to great successes and you're going to struggle if the qualification group level is a bit high.

 

Edited 9 October 2017 by ZeGuy

[davieG]

3 minutes ago, ZeGuy said:

I don't know.

 

The PL tends to rely massively on generally confirmed/star foreign players and rarely give a chance to the young british ones. This has necessarily an impact in the long term on the english football academies. The results of such policy don't show over night and I think we're only now starting to see them.

 

I found the quality of the starting english XI genuinely average, bar Kane and Alli, Maguire to an extent. The midfield especially is shocking. Southgate won't lead you to great successes and you're going to struggle if the qualification group level is a bit high.

 

The academies also seem to be stocking up with more and more foreign players who may qualify for England but more than likely will go for the country of their birth.

[funkyrobot]

10 hours ago, mad biker said:

Who was ?

 

Hendo obv

[Ted Maul]

13 hours ago, ZeGuy said:

The PL has slowly but surely killed England's national XI. 

I'm not so sure... mismanagement from the top down is our biggest issue. I think we would have enough quality to challenge for a place in the final or semis if we were using a system which would play to our strengths.

 

Our biggest problem is that, for some bizarre reason, we seem to have a deeply entrenched philosophy of knocking the ball around slowly, trying to dominate possession until an opportunity presents itself. Spain had a lot of success with it. The difference is that they had the quality for it to work.

 

We should be playing a system which involves high pressing, counter-attacking and direct running/passing into space. We've got the pace and finishing ability up top for it to work. We just seem to be obsessed with passing football, even though it's painfully obvious that we're not good enough for it to succeed.

[funkyrobot]

Maguire is a better attacking player than Hendo. The FA and club youth systems appear to love to churn out OPTA stat midfielders with impeccable pass completion because they churn out continual sideways and backward passing centre mids. Hendo, Livermore, Dier backwards, sideways, safe, one paced no movement. Maguire takes risks, looks forward, tries to beat a man. Feel sorry for him, swaps playing behind one turgid midfield at LCFC with one that’s even more turgid at England level.

[davieG]

3 hours ago, Ted Maul said:

I'm not so sure... mismanagement from the top down is our biggest issue. I think we would have enough quality to challenge for a place in the final or semis if we were using a system which would play to our strengths.

 

Our biggest problem is that, for some bizarre reason, we seem to have a deeply entrenched philosophy of knocking the ball around slowly, trying to dominate possession until an opportunity presents itself. Spain had a lot of success with it. The difference is that they had the quality for it to work.

 

We should be playing a system which involves high pressing, counter-attacking and direct running/passing into space. We've got the pace and finishing ability up top for it to work. We just seem to be obsessed with passing football, even though it's painfully obvious that we're not good enough for it to succeed.

The problem is a lot of the reams we play especially in the qualification games think we're better than we are and sit back therefore counter attacking is not that viable and why we end up passing it back and forth. Then when we get to the KO stages meeting better teams that attack us the group game style is so entrenched that we continue with the possession game against teams that are so much better than us at possession football 

[Ted Maul]

32 minutes ago, davieG said:

The problem is a lot of the reams we play especially in the qualification games think we're better than we are and sit back therefore counter attacking is not that viable and why we end up passing it back and forth. Then when we get to the KO stages meeting better teams that attack us the group game style is so entrenched that we continue with the possession game against teams that are so much better than us at possession football 

Very valid point. I suppose it's up to the management to adapt to each situation- if we go into games with France with exactly the same setup and mentality as against Lithuania, we're asking for trouble. Sadly, that's what we have been doing for 10 years.

[AKCJ]

England's defensive candidates in the Premier League since August 2016
	Games	Tackles	Blocks	Interceptions	Clearances	Pass accuracy %
Ryan Bertrand	35	44	15	52	53	83.61
Gary Cahill	41	55	18	48	179	88.06
Nathaniel Clyne	37	80	2	43	54	83.34
Phil Jones	25	43	18	41	179	90.57
Michael Keane	41	38	50	75	302	74.68
Harry Maguire	36	64	34	76	180	76.70
Danny Rose	18	50	3	22	52	77.27
Chris Smalling	20	12	9	16	133	88.56
John Stones	34	33	14	46	129	92.88
Kyle Walker	39	77	6	42	109	81.68

[Sampson]

5 hours ago, ZeGuy said:

I don't know.

 

The PL tends to rely massively on generally confirmed/star foreign players and rarely give a chance to the young british ones. This has necessarily an impact in the long term on the english football academies. The results of such policy don't show over night and I think we're only now starting to see them.

 

I found the quality of the starting english XI genuinely average, bar Kane and Alli, Maguire to an extent. The midfield especially is shocking. Southgate won't lead you to great successes and you're going to struggle if the qualification group level is a bit high.

 

It's a difficult one but I don't really think we've got specifically worse after the PL.

 

We're definitely in a very fallow period right now but it was exactly the same in the 70s and 80s and the Graham Taylor era - we had good sides in the 60s, 90, 96 and I do think the one from 02-06 was good but underachieved - but that's not necessarily the PL's fault necesserily as much as coaches at youth level or style of coaching or whatever - we're always baraged with stats about how Germany and Spain have so many more youth coaches than us for example.

 

Idk there's no easy solution, but things about overhauling the style of play, we don't train our youth technically enough or we train the technical skills out of players in favour of physicality - I remember similar complaints being made about England back in the 80s before the PL even began - in fact the main reason the top division was reduced to 20 teams was because the "too many games" complaints were going on decades ago.

 

I think one of the biggest problems is we don't trust our own footballing culture and instead are always trying to follow the flavour of the month - 5 years ago we were trying to follow the Spanish model, now the FA are always trying to follow the German model etc. We're always following other footballing cultures rather than embracing our own and creating our own model.

Edited 9 October 2017 by Sampson