David Guiza Posted 19 November 2017 Share Posted 19 November 2017 As a massive Smiths fan I can't help but cringe every single time Morrissey opens his fat bigoted (yet genius) mouth. This time, with his comments about Spacey and Weinstein, I think it's one step too far. There is no doubting his musical capabilities, in my eyes anyway, but the man is beyond help. I have tickets to see him in London next year and I am in two minds as to whether I should go or not; on the one hand I have wanted to see him/The Smiths since I discovered him/them around the age of 16/17 and his music means so much to me, but I also can't condone what he has said (and not for the first time). My question therefore is how easy is it for you to separate a flawed genius of yours from their work. Would you go to see them in their respective field, even after they did something that you were grossly offended by? Or have you turned your back on somebody you once adored for similar reasons, ie the Lostprophets etc? I also happen to me a big fan of Woody Allen and have the same reservations about him; but to separate his fantastic films from his comments and actions seems easier for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanSP Posted 19 November 2017 Share Posted 19 November 2017 Funnily enough, before getting to the bit you mention about Lostprophets, they were who I thought of as I read everything before it. Totally stopped listening to them. Couldn't bear to carry on enjoying listening to the songs and Ian Watkins after knowing his actions, sadly, in great detail. Felt sorry for the rest of the band mostly though. They've done nothing wrong and I don't know what they're up to now but no doubt they're known as the guys who used be friends with the sicko as opposed to great musicians. Similar to football players - we all seem to turn a blind eye to Danny Simpson's misdemeanours in favour of him being a football player for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 19 November 2017 Share Posted 19 November 2017 Maybe you should stop watching the news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 19 November 2017 Share Posted 19 November 2017 Marr was the genius in the Smiths. A lot of the times Morrissey kind of ruined his music. In general, I never really understood the enduring appeal of the Smiths. I liked them as a teen and still think TQID is a great album, but I think they're the kind of band that stops making sense at a certain point. And yeah Morrissey's a twat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted 19 November 2017 Share Posted 19 November 2017 If I couldn't then pretty much the heyday of Black Metal would be out of bounds - Norwegian scene in the 90s was 50% music, 50% arson and murder. If whatever makes them unsavoury didn't bleed into the music they made then I don't think it's a problem really, it's already separated. Difficulty is more in whether you should buy music from them or pirate it, and tbh I tend to lean to the latter if I'm uncomfortable paying towards arseholes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Guiza Posted 20 November 2017 Author Share Posted 20 November 2017 12 hours ago, StanSP said: Funnily enough, before getting to the bit you mention about Lostprophets, they were who I thought of as I read everything before it. Totally stopped listening to them. Couldn't bear to carry on enjoying listening to the songs and Ian Watkins after knowing his actions, sadly, in great detail. Felt sorry for the rest of the band mostly though. They've done nothing wrong and I don't know what they're up to now but no doubt they're known as the guys who used be friends with the sicko as opposed to great musicians. Similar to football players - we all seem to turn a blind eye to Danny Simpson's misdemeanours in favour of him being a football player for us. I never really got into the Lostprophets so never really faced that dilemma, but I think I'd have done the same. I just don't think that I could take pleasure in listening to a band with that kind of God awful stigma attached. Absolutely right on football too. There are more extreme examples too, like Lee Hughes and Luke Mccormick too; I just couldn't have actively supported either should they have signed for Leicester. 11 hours ago, bovril said: Marr was the genius in the Smiths. A lot of the times Morrissey kind of ruined his music. In general, I never really understood the enduring appeal of the Smiths. I liked them as a teen and still think TQID is a great album, but I think they're the kind of band that stops making sense at a certain point. And yeah Morrissey's a twat. Yeah the more I listen to Marr, both music and interview, I get that impression. He's certainly a far nicer and 'normal' bloke too. 11 hours ago, The Doctor said: If I couldn't then pretty much the heyday of Black Metal would be out of bounds - Norwegian scene in the 90s was 50% music, 50% arson and murder. If whatever makes them unsavoury didn't bleed into the music they made then I don't think it's a problem really, it's already separated. Difficulty is more in whether you should buy music from them or pirate it, and tbh I tend to lean to the latter if I'm uncomfortable paying towards arseholes. Very true. I love the Beatles and, to a large extent, just flat out ignore what Lennon had said and done in the past. I idolise him as a genius but there is no doubting that he was hugely flawed too. Sinatra and many other of my favourites too. You're right though, it's the paying for their music both at venues and download/cds etc that is the real issue. Whether or not to 'sell your soul', so to speak, in order to experience them live when they represent a lot of what you can't tolerate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 20 November 2017 Share Posted 20 November 2017 The difference between Morrissey/Norwegian Black metal/Gansta Rap and the Lost Prophets/Gary Glitter apart from the nature of their offences is that with the former you knew what you were getting into, you listened to Morrissey/Smiths knowing he was an opinionated gobshite but that was part of the charm, same with Mayhem and their church burning it was a known quantity and Tupac was a gangtsa with questionable morals, you come to terms with that when listening to the music. Whereas when you get into a band thinking one thing and build your own associations with the music and then the artist turns out to be a despicable human being then you can't reassess the music through that lens. It works with footballers too, Simpson had his problems when he came to us and wasn't particularly popular when he got convicted, but he wasn't being held up as a hero or a role model or anything other than a fairly average footballer so he didn't have far to fall and was able to rebuild his reputation and is now popular(ish) despite his past, whereas Rooney for example was a superstar and his misdemeanors will plague him forever. I guess it depends if you see Morrissey's comments as so far removed from how you would expect him to act and what you expect him to say, but sometimes he comes across as being contrary for the sake of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voll Blau Posted 20 November 2017 Share Posted 20 November 2017 It's sad that Morrissey's become the embittered sod he has, and I think too many Smiths fans try to be an apologist for the utter shite he comes out with these days. The bloke's a cvnt, even if his autobiography a few years ago was a decent read. That said, can I separate his opinions now from his lyrical genius in the past? Absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleronnie Posted 20 November 2017 Share Posted 20 November 2017 18 minutes ago, Voll Blau said: It's sad that Morrissey's become the embittered sod he has, and I think too many Smiths fans try to be an apologist for the utter shite he comes out with these days. The bloke's a cvnt, even if his autobiography a few years ago was a decent read. That said, can I separate his opinions now from his lyrical genius in the past? Absolutely. Just read a scathing review of his album, although it seemed to criticise Morrissey as a person more than the album itself, I guess its difficult to give a positive review of an album when you don't like the person. As far as my opinion on him, I don't read his interviews and I don't take part in social media, so in my little world Morrissey's just about the same as he's always been. In fact if I had to criticise him I would say he simply doesn't take enough chances with his music, all his albums are pretty much the same and so all I hope for is a cracking single every now and again And we all know mozza likes to stir things up and happily welcomes controversy, so I would take what he says these days with a pinch of salt it could just be said for effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Guiza Posted 20 November 2017 Author Share Posted 20 November 2017 2 hours ago, Voll Blau said: It's sad that Morrissey's become the embittered sod he has, and I think too many Smiths fans try to be an apologist for the utter shite he comes out with these days. The bloke's a cvnt, even if his autobiography a few years ago was a decent read. That said, can I separate his opinions now from his lyrical genius in the past? Absolutely. It really is - there's no doubting that some of the drivel he comes out with is to keep himself relevant, but then I criticise Katie Hopkins, Adrian Durham etc for exactly the same thing so why should Morrissey be any different just because he can pen a good song? You'd probably struggle to find the lead singer of a band who wasn't at all controversial though, and I guess that's part of the appeal. That's part of what separates great bands from Coldplay. 2 hours ago, purpleronnie said: Just read a scathing review of his album, although it seemed to criticise Morrissey as a person more than the album itself, I guess its difficult to give a positive review of an album when you don't like the person. As far as my opinion on him, I don't read his interviews and I don't take part in social media, so in my little world Morrissey's just about the same as he's always been. In fact if I had to criticise him I would say he simply doesn't take enough chances with his music, all his albums are pretty much the same and so all I hope for is a cracking single every now and again And we all know mozza likes to stir things up and happily welcomes controversy, so I would take what he says these days with a pinch of salt it could just be said for effect. Yeah I can't help but wonder if the scathing reviews have more to do with the man than the music. I love the Libertines and undoubtedly many will forever criticise Doherty's work because of his history, regardless of the content. Avoiding his personal life is probably the best way to take him and others like him. He will always be an icon to me, but he certainly gives truth to the 'never meet your heroes' saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potter3 Posted 20 November 2017 Share Posted 20 November 2017 18 hours ago, StanSP said: Funnily enough, before getting to the bit you mention about Lostprophets, they were who I thought of as I read everything before it. Totally stopped listening to them. Couldn't bear to carry on enjoying listening to the songs and Ian Watkins after knowing his actions, sadly, in great detail. Felt sorry for the rest of the band mostly though. They've done nothing wrong and I don't know what they're up to now but no doubt they're known as the guys who used be friends with the sicko as opposed to great musicians. Similar to football players - we all seem to turn a blind eye to Danny Simpson's misdemeanours in favour of him being a football player for us. The rest of Lostprophets formed a band with another vocalist, didn't care for it much when I gave it a listen though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonnieTodger Posted 20 November 2017 Share Posted 20 November 2017 I'm never watching Men Behaving Badly again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miquel The Work Geordie Posted 20 November 2017 Share Posted 20 November 2017 remember that men behaving badly when he got a perm, world class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScouseFox Posted 20 November 2017 Share Posted 20 November 2017 20 hours ago, Rogstanley said: Maybe you should stop watching the news you turn over when the news comes on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScouseFox Posted 20 November 2017 Share Posted 20 November 2017 also yeah if it took you this long to realise morrisey is a worm then just carry on ignoring it imho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simi Posted 21 November 2017 Share Posted 21 November 2017 I'd rather an artist have something to say than nothing at all. Regardless of how stupid it may be. So tiresome now to see all the current artists saying loads of words without saying nothing. It's beyond tedious. You can predict the words that come out of their mouth before they've even spoken. Might as well get the record company to read out a statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox92 Posted 21 November 2017 Share Posted 21 November 2017 On 19/11/2017 at 21:27, bovril said: Marr was the genius in the Smiths. A lot of the times Morrissey kind of ruined his music. In general, I never really understood the enduring appeal of the Smiths. I liked them as a teen and still think TQID is a great album, but I think they're the kind of band that stops making sense at a certain point. And yeah Morrissey's a twat. I've always liked Marr more. Been to see him live a couple of times, always good and his solo work is solid. He comes across as a decent bloke too. Some of his guitar riffs were superb (What Difference Does It Make is probably my favourite) - I don't think any guitarist really sounds like Marr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellend Sebastian Posted 22 November 2017 Share Posted 22 November 2017 Latest album is good. Don't think I'll get as much from it as the previous one though, that was fab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voll Blau Posted 22 November 2017 Share Posted 22 November 2017 On 11/21/2017 at 07:49, Fox92 said: I've always liked Marr more. Been to see him live a couple of times, always good and his solo work is solid. He comes across as a decent bloke too. Some of his guitar riffs were superb (What Difference Does It Make is probably my favourite) - I don't think any guitarist really sounds like Marr. Have you read his book? Would give anything to have been a fly on the wall when him and Morrissey met up in that Manc pub a few years ago! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox92 Posted 22 November 2017 Share Posted 22 November 2017 5 hours ago, Voll Blau said: Have you read his book? Would give anything to have been a fly on the wall when him and Morrissey met up in that Manc pub a few years ago! I haven't read Marr's book. Were they close to a reunion then or just a general chat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Guiza Posted 22 November 2017 Author Share Posted 22 November 2017 On 11/21/2017 at 08:49, Fox92 said: I've always liked Marr more. Been to see him live a couple of times, always good and his solo work is solid. He comes across as a decent bloke too. Some of his guitar riffs were superb (What Difference Does It Make is probably my favourite) - I don't think any guitarist really sounds like Marr. Have you listened to Adam Buxton's podcast with him? Really insightful. Would certainly love to see Marr live in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox92 Posted 23 November 2017 Share Posted 23 November 2017 12 hours ago, David Guiza said: Have you listened to Adam Buxton's podcast with him? Really insightful. Would certainly love to see Marr live in the future. Again, no Loads of things I must look out for here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chico1958 Posted 23 November 2017 Share Posted 23 November 2017 Always seperate the music from the artist.............. Hero's tend to let you down. Seen both the Smiths and Morrissey, tend not to listen to any of the chat just there for the music Just go and enjoy the gig for what it is......... Usually a good time and don't get hung up if the guys a nob Any Gig not just Morrissey by the way.......... check out some of crap Bono comes out with but live they're up their with best I've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filbert_Ross Posted 23 November 2017 Share Posted 23 November 2017 On 22/11/2017 at 12:19, Bellend Sebastian said: Latest album is good. Don't think I'll get as much from it as the previous one though, that was fab I’m the opposite. Think this album loads better than the last one. Not sure why it’s getting negative reviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 24 November 2017 Share Posted 24 November 2017 I don't want to separate the two and I can't. I'm enormously put off by lots of things, being a punk fan, far right views tend to be the biggest problem. Musically I quite like Oi! which is obviously pretty tricky ground. Politics aside, Lostprophets were shit anyway but they can definitely get in the bin now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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