Salisbury, Skripal, Poison and Russia.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

2 minutes ago, Strokes said:

They have the strongest motives to carry out this.....

What are they?  Genuine question.  I actually dont know why they would do this, seems to be the biggest blunder ever

[Strokes]

Just now, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

What are they?  Genuine question.  I actually dont know why they would do this, seems to be the biggest blunder ever

He was a double agent, he had betrayed them to us. It’s treason, probably the most compelling reason for state murder.

[Guest MattP]

58 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

I still cant see what Russia's motives would be to commit this attack.  It doesnt add up

 

Seems to have effectively ramped up a pre-existing anti-Russian sentiment though....just sayin'....

The motive is clearly a warning, Putin hasn't exactly been shy about this, here is a video of him warning traitors they will choke on their own blood - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/vladimir-putin-traitors-kick-bucket-sergei-skripal-latest-video-30-pieces-silver-a8243206.html

 

We'll obviously never know, but maybe we are having some pretty significant victories with intelligence with our agents, it's certainly feasible.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

21 minutes ago, Strokes said:

He was a double agent, he had betrayed them to us. It’s treason, probably the most compelling reason for state murder.

Oh yeah. But they had him under their duress and then swapped him for some spies from the other side right? 

Why not just murder him like they do their other victims, quiet strangulation in the night and all that

Why attract so much attention by using this outrageous nerve agent?

It is a bit weird

[Guest MattP]

Meanwhile another useful idiot/nutter shows themselves from the Labour party. Good old Chris Williamson again - https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/chris-williamson-smokescreen-boris_uk_5ac65cabe4b09d0a11913bf3

 

I thought they weren't going to appear on RT again?

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

1 minute ago, MattP said:

The motive is clearly a warning, Putin hasn't exactly been shy about this, here is a video of him warning traitors they will choke on their own blood - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/vladimir-putin-traitors-kick-bucket-sergei-skripal-latest-video-30-pieces-silver-a8243206.html

 

We'll obviously never know, but maybe we are having some pretty significant victories with intelligence with our agents, it's certainly feasible.

Hadnt seen thay before, pretty strong words.

Ok, motive clearly established

The method though, very odd choice

[Strokes]

17 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

Oh yeah. But they had him under their duress and then swapped him for some spies from the other side right? 

Why not just murder him like they do their other victims, quiet strangulation in the night and all that

Why attract so much attention by using this outrageous nerve agent?

It is a bit weird

To make other spies think twice before switching sides?

Are you seriously saying you think it’s more plausible we masterminded this, to create anti Russian setiment?

[Guest MattP]

5 minutes ago, Strokes said:

To make other spies think twice before switching sides?

Are you seriously saying you think it’s more plausible we masterminded this, to create anti Russian setiment?

There was a guy on Twitter genuinely claiming the MSM and Murdoch could be behind it just so they can frame Corbyn as a pro-Russian sympathiser.

 

Even tried to compare it to phone hacking.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

8 minutes ago, Strokes said:

To make other spies think twice before switching sides?

Are you seriously saying you think it’s more plausible we masterminded this, to create anti Russian setiment?

I'm not claiming that.  Its just that if Russia did this they have done it in this manner purposefully in order to exacerbate already bad international relations.  All their other hits have been relatively discreet.

 

I'm not jumping to conspiracy theories, its just a really strange choice for the Russian govt. to do something like this right before the world cup, strange choice anyway!

 

I'm not saying its not them.  Could be just stupid reckless act of them I suppose.  Could be done intentionally to gain some sort of seige mentality for political reasons

 

Its just, its a fishy one from the start.  Boris Johnson has already been caught bare-faced lying

 

Seems mad to me to be all 'open and shut case' about it

[Innovindil]

29 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

I'm not claiming that.  Its just that if Russia did this they have done it in this manner purposefully in order to exacerbate already bad international relations.  All their other hits have been relatively discreet.

 

I'm not jumping to conspiracy theories, its just a really strange choice for the Russian govt. to do something like this right before the world cup, strange choice anyway!

 

I'm not saying its not them.  Could be just stupid reckless act of them I suppose.  Could be done intentionally to gain some sort of seige mentality for political reasons

 

Its just, its a fishy one from the start.  Boris Johnson has already been caught bare-faced lying

 

Seems mad to me to be all 'open and shut case' about it

Have to say I agree. How easy all this would have been if they had just had someone stab the guy to death. No one would even be questioning it with all the shit going on right now. 

 

I get you want to send a warning out, but you'd think priority one would be making sure the guy actually died. 

 

It's weird. But admittedly I'm not a Russian assassin. Maybe they just wanted to try something new. 

[Guest MattP]

7 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Have to say I agree. How easy all this would have been if they had just had someone stab the guy to death. No one would even be questioning it with all the shit going on right now. 

 

I get you want to send a warning out, but you'd think priority one would be making sure the guy actually died. 

 

It's weird. But admittedly I'm not a Russian assassin. Maybe they just wanted to try something new. 

A stabbing doesn't give everyone the ultimate impression the Russians were responsible though, if they want to send a warning to agents that isn't going to do it.

I don't think you can ever guarantee a nerve agent to be effective as you don't kill someone instantly, you don't know the medication that the person will have access to and you rely on them not being found in a certain time limit where they can recover, Putin and the Russian ambassador keep asking the question and implying they want to see the antidote we have to Novichok, it's possible we are a lot more developed in terms of treating this than they assumed we were.

 

Maybe the Russians aren't as competent as we imagine them to be anymore?

[Fox Ulike]

1 hour ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

I'm not claiming that.  Its just that if Russia did this they have done it in this manner purposefully in order to exacerbate already bad international relations.  All their other hits have been relatively discreet.

 

I'm not jumping to conspiracy theories, its just a really strange choice for the Russian govt. to do something like this right before the world cup, strange choice anyway!

 

I'm not saying its not them.  Could be just stupid reckless act of them I suppose.  Could be done intentionally to gain some sort of seige mentality for political reasons

 

Its just, its a fishy one from the start.  Boris Johnson has already been caught bare-faced lying

 

Seems mad to me to be all 'open and shut case' about it

It's a good point. I think though the most likely explanation is that this 'hit' has been botched. I'm sure the Russians would of wanted this done quietly as you say.

 

http://uk.businessinsider.com/list-alleged-russian-assassinations-in-britain-litvinenko-2018-3?r=US&IR=T

 

Not that i'm an expert on nerve agents - but I expect that once administered the victims should just go home and die quietly a couple of hours later.

 

Somebody has messed this up, and is probably already wearing a pair of concrete shoes at the bottom of Lake Baikal.  

 

[breadandcheese]

I'm tending to think that it was a botched job.  He was meant to die quietly at home but the assassins hadn't counted on the fact that he was hungry for a pizza so went out for the afternoon.

[Strokes]

2 hours ago, MattP said:

There was a guy on Twitter genuinely claiming the MSM and Murdoch could be behind it just so they can frame Corbyn as a pro-Russian sympathiser.

 

Even tried to compare it to phone hacking.

Amazing?

I don’t doubt the Russians are responsible, I worry we don’t have the evidence but the culprit is in no doubt for me.

[Guest MattP]

23 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Amazing?

I don’t doubt the Russians are responsible, I worry we don’t have the evidence but the culprit is in no doubt for me.

 

[Finnegan]

I wonder how exactly the Russians got their reputation for being great spies and agents tbh. 

 

It looks a lot over the last decade like Russian subterfuge is as subtle as Crabtree in Allo Allo when he goes pissing by the door. 

[Mike Oxlong]

Should be a state funeral for the victims

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/04/06/europe/sergei-skripal-cat-guinea-pigs-dead-intl/index.html

[yorkie1999]

The dad's now making a recovery and is no longer in a critical condition, which leads me to wonder whether this has all been a giant fvck up by the government which will lead to us being the laughing stock of the world (as if Boris isn't already)  and it was really some dodgy pcp they'd shared.

[leicsmac]

3 hours ago, breadandcheese said:

I'm tending to think that it was a botched job.  He was meant to die quietly at home but the assassins hadn't counted on the fact that he was hungry for a pizza so went out for the afternoon.

This is what I'm leaning towards as well.

 

I made the argument at the start about the Russians using a highly spectacular and highly accountable agent to off this guy and then not even killing him being a bit off. The "show traitors what to expect" argument would hold more water if the guy had actually died - instead, thankfully, he's looking on the mend.

[Beechey]

1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

The dad's now making a recovery and is no longer in a critical condition, which leads me to wonder whether this has all been a giant fvck up by the government which will lead to us being the laughing stock of the world (as if Boris isn't already)  and it was really some dodgy pcp they'd shared.

Dstl seems pretty certain a nerve agent was used.

[yorkie1999]

2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

This is what I'm leaning towards as well.

 

I made the argument at the start about the Russians using a highly spectacular and highly accountable agent to off this guy and then not even killing him being a bit off. The "show traitors what to expect" argument would hold more water if the guy had actually died - instead, thankfully, he's looking on the mend.

I read that she brought it back in his special breakfast cereal.

[Alf Bentley]

3 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

I read that she brought it back in his special breakfast cereal.

 

Free Novichok gift in every pack of Rice Krispies? That would explain the snap, crackle and pop.

[yorkie1999]

12 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Free Novichok gift in every pack of Rice Krispies? That would explain the snap, crackle and pop.

Rinsky krispikovs, actually

[Bellend Sebastian]

Great news to see that Yulia Skripal is out of hospital.

 

The question on my lips now has to be: will we be lovers?

[Wymsey]

Just glad that they aren't brain-damaged to the level where they're unable to communicate in anyway. They may well be monitored for the rest of their lives considering what was thrown on them.

Will be interesting to see what they can remember, if anything, from the situation or if they had suspicions themselves before the incident took place of any individual they believe could've been behind it.