Claudio to Fulham

[StriderHiryu]

3 hours ago, Chester Dontlie said:

 

@Hanan96

I think I share your reservations about Ranieri but I don't think anyone can 'underrate' or 'overrate' a manager who wins the Prem with an underdog on a 5000/1 chance. It's just incomparable with anything else in football. That alone makes Mourinhos La Liga, Premier League, Serie A, even CL wins rather bland in comparison, after all his teams were always (maybe except Porto's CL win but that was hardly 5000/1) among the favourites. While Ranieri's following season at Leicester was disastrous in the Prem, it wasn't so bad on the European front where we reached the quarterfinals of CL (technically, the quarterfinals happened under Shakes but Ranners got us through the group to the knockout stages, so at least in Europe he did an okay job...) and in the end marginally lost with Atletico.

 

Speaking of which, you mention Atletico like they were some kind of underdogs, who each year push for the top 3 "after their shocking title win". Even if we forget about the lack of competitiveness in La Liga compared to the PL, Atletico won it 10 times in their history and featured in Europe numerous times (3 times winning the EL in last 8 years). Hardly the underdog.

 

Looking at what happened after the title win from the perspective I think obviously we underperformed, but was it realistic for anyone to expect us to finish top 4 or even top 6t? PL is the most competitive among the top leagues and if you want to be top 6 then some of the big boys would have to slip. In 15/16 the stars were aligned our way (but still it required Ranieri's stroke of genius to win the league - to be the best in 38 league games with 10 point gap over the 2nd team is never down to luck). Where we are now, we would probably need to spend 3-4 times the amount we do for transfers to have our high expectations grounded and challenge for the top 6 spot (Liverpool bought a goalie for 56+ mil I don't think we can (nor should) compete with that).

SInce the title win we've lost two of our three star players (one of them, immediately). Especially Kante's loss was massive (we still are in the process of finding and nurturing our new stars). I agree that Ranieri was in his second season too stubborn, too over reliant on some of the (aging) title winners, and completely unwilling/unable to adapt when our system was found out. But IMO his 2016/17 incompetence doesn't take anything away from his 2015/16 brilliance. Whatever it is he did in 15/16, it required not only luck and experience, but also a healthy dose of  genius. He pushed all the required buttons in the exact order to make it happen. He will need to do it again now at Fulham. I wish him the best obviously. They are shit now but there's still a lot of time to change things and lot of points to win. 

 

As for the once a 'special one' now just an 'ordinary Joe' Moaninho... He's a living proof of the truth that as a manager you're only as good as your recent few seasons.. I think he's like a walking reminder for all the people in high places, that if you're being cocky, disrespectful, bullyish, in general act like a twat, all the shit you throw about will at some point come around and people will take pleasure in seeing you fall. He's the exact opposite of Claudio. Like many neutrals I'm rather delighted to see him burn out and auto destruct. He may have been a brilliant manager few seasons ago, but he was a ****. Now, he's only a ****.

Superb post! 

[shen]

7 hours ago, Hanan96 said:

[...]

This is going nowhere and just circling back to points already made. I feel you are comparing apples and pear.

The circumstances behind Chelsea 2004/5 or Atletico 2013/14 are so wildly different from Leicester 2015/16 that it's pointless to compare.

 

No-one could realistically expect us to consistently challenge season after season, let alone come close to achieving what we did.

Everyone, including our own fans, are trying to explain the unexplainable and of course there are mitigating factors in our title win, but most important was what happened at our club during and leading up to that season. It's not what happened or didn't happen in Manchester, London or Liverpool...

 

Ranieri contributed substantially here and elsewhere and you would do well to recognise this. I'm not comparing him to the likes of Mourinho, SAF, Ancelotti etc, I just used them as examples to show that even they have failed and sometimes quite spectacularly. I do think it's OK to compare him to unproven coaches or proven mediocre managers. That's all I wanted to say.

[Countryfox]

On 15/11/2018 at 01:58, Hanan96 said:

I never say terrible but rather not unconvincing enough for them. 

 

Big club wants to win something especially  national league, which ranieri had already had fair share with those big club but only won like serie b, ligue 2. Never won highest national league title with those big club and later sacked. So it will be reasonable for those big club to be reluctant to hire him. 

 

His Chelsea tenure aren't perfect at all. I remember how he sub robert huth on as right wing back which cost them get knocked out from champions league when they are leading before. 

Mourinho come and bring 3 midfield with 1 holding which surprise the majority of epl sides. He also bring his player which would become the core of Chelsea team

 

I never downplay our title win. I just write the fact here that our title win is happen not just because of him. We have amazing backroom staff, chairman, and majority of the signing was done during Pearson tenure. The 2nd season were magnify it how when the things turned different ways and he handle much more dominant task. 

 

I never says ranieri is terrible coach btw. I wrote before how fulham done a decent recruitment in him.he's just bit overrated 

 

On 15/11/2018 at 13:46, Hanan96 said:

1. about most of the name you mention, they have simmilar things in common. and not only they, but also with younger ranieri. what is that ? promising.

the likes of zidane, scolari, and gatusso were already popular in their club as player. So it will be easier to getting more support from fans, just like we put shakespare in , yes hes not our player but also popular figure. Its worth trying. they didnt have poor track record anyway.  So those potential coach can be hired with lesser wages and compensation should things go wrong, compared to already big name coach like Alex Ferguson.

The same things were happened to Ranieri, whos look promising coach who promote fiorentina and helping napoli cope with financial crisis. so bigger team made a chance on this promising coach like chelsea, valencia, atletico madrid, juventus, as Roma. 

 

the difference between Ranieri and those name are, Ranieri are already experienced the spells at big clubs, so the big can judge him based on those previous result, which unfortunately, not convincing enough. while the likes of Gatusso, Scolari, are yet to put real stamps on their coaching. Zidane , fortunately, doing enough to be among the big name coach just like Pep guardiola first tenure at Barcelona.

 

is midtable or top 10 reasonable ?? yes of course !! Hes not anywhere terible coach and not that great either. He is experienced coach. look at the CV above . and like what I already said, those place arent often got ambitious pressure which allow him to thrive.

 

2. Chelsea tenure wasnt perfect.. okay no problem.. mourinho win, well different with pearson and ranieri.. during mourinho, the chelsea team  got paulo fereira, petr cech, Robben,  Drogba, Tiago, Carvalho who would become the core of their team. Ranieri with Leicester, even theres new signing like Fuchs, Okazaki, they were signed by Pearson tenure. Kante were signed during Ranieri, while he preferred Mendy. 1 vs 7 , well different.

chelsea didnt be one season wonder. their shocking brand new tactic were in thriumph for at least 3 season. And then took them at least 7 years to made it out of top 3, while they made comeback asap. their signing are still key part of the team for some years. He did build good foundation.

leicester, after winning EPL, breaking transfer record multiple times. sounds simmilar with chelsea above, but somehow almost relegated. from those signing, almost all were struggling here and get sold. 

 

and why I attribute the success to his predescor and surrounding environment? I already mention. Majority of the player during title win are come from his predescor. We also are in 'different' situation or special ones. As I already mention, how many team in the history, have the so little number of injury and suspension that almost always played with the same lineup in every match whole season, then none of the backup player were complains for sitting on the bench almost whole season, while at the same time, all the big 6 team were outperformed ? , also at the same time, almost none of the team recognize our formula and played deeper defensive line? most of the time, a team who were made shock performance like us , will stop after half of the season, since the opposition made some formula to counter, and then theres no alternative, then the shocking performance stopped.

somehow, no team did that to us ,instead ,wait for the next season.

 

we have the luxury which will be almost impossible to happens in any other team in history.

 

3. When I read your post, you were said at how come the big club didnt hire him and instead only the likes of nantes and fulham. because of you only highlighting a single season, thats why I said you were overatte him.

 

aye about you mention I'm 'silly', well  theres another.sent out veron, who just recoverd from long term injury for 45th of crucial champions league matches, then drawing strikers for right back, only to bring on cb for that position later. there are many other things he did. this is just and example

why did I mention this ? this kind of things really important for big clubs. one match in ucl knock out is really costly. many of his decision is bizzare for big club standarts which costly at some important points

 

so those of experience will hinder him from further big club approach, unless he learnt from those experience and leicester experience, where should he tinker and not, then bring a mid team or bottom half team to constantly improve for long term, rather for just short term shock, then the big club will unlikely to consider him.

 

9 hours ago, Hanan96 said:

The likes of zidane, gatusso, scolari, guardiola, giggs, etc are popular figure on their club respectively, by having they at the club will at least offer 2 benefit, respect from fans and dressing club. 

The different between younger ranieri and current ranieri is that the younger are yet to manage at top level while look promising potential. When the club hire someone who did have some fail at big team, they will think twice at how and why it happened. This made it hard for the likes of benitez (unfortunate to choose madrid) rijkard(no more europe giant anymore before finally retired early) and ranieri himself. Because they have already track record on the giants and unfortunately, not so good. 

This is why choosing the right club in the coaching career is difficult. One failure, it never erased from their CV and always questioned 

 

This is one of the why some club preferred young coach whom look promising for their club, like Neville goes to valencia for example. He didn't have good spells, and hardly other big team gamble on him anymore. 

 

About title win, its not a downplay. Its a fact. The largely simmilar squad with even the same coach and tactic, where are they? Challenging for top 3?top 6?

 

Shakespeare built the team to mimmic our title win season

Bring back okazaki, 442. Are we challenge for top 3 or top 6?

 

Atletico madrid, at least, keep challenging around top 3 after their shocking title win, not hovering in the relegation zone which happen twice to us. 

 

We have a good squad with good mental stage after our form during the great.escape. But we never come close with the top team after that season. all of those things deserve credit , not just the manager. This is one of the factor of over ambitious things around here at the momment

 

 

Mourinho and Ferguson did made mistake. Nobody is perfect. And they did also won multiple national and continental crown. That's made them at different level 

 

I said you overate him as you only put title winning judgement without even slight consideration about the season after, and the rest of his career. 

 

Mendi ndidi? Took him half season to consider the last name. He was consider between striker or midfielder central as deadline day signing and choose the striker. 

 

Also count those new player under mourinho.ranieri long term signing?

Ranieri and mourinho have the next future career. Look at least 10 next year. Enough time for football player development. So ranieri have good eye on player. Where is the other long term signing? Did he bring them or somobody other to somewhere to win something? 

 

At other side mourinho won some more in inter milan and real madrid.

 

53 minutes ago, Hanan96 said:

Thanks for your reply. 

I have no problem with the majority of your post, your point with mine aren't like earth and sun to be honest. 

 

Here, what I'm talking with another member, sorry forgotten the ID, are mostly not about how terrible ranieri is, neither how luck 'solely' won us the title. 

 

The first time I saw his post, my understanding is he were asking why, after our title win, ranieri 'only' managing club like nantes and fulham, instead of the big team which didn't mentioned. I percept this as giant like chelsea, real madrid, Milan, etc, which followed with the name of coach like sarri, zidane.. All of them are in those club, the big club with the tradition instead of just mid table team. 

 

Thats why I tried to write more about the another side of him, which will made big sides reasonably need to think twice before hire him. He have fair share of times with the big teams, like valencia, rome, Chelsea, inter, and failed to deliver according to their standard and ambitions, while reasonable did a decent job with team like fiorentina. 

 

To cut it short, even with epl winning, he didn't stand with the 'big name' like guardiola, zidane, or even ferguson. 

 

After our title win, we are going to relegation zone. That were show 2 things. Our squad aren't the world beater which will constantly battle for the top 3, let alone top 6. But relegation zone with such big signing, is really not a good things. We should at least around 10th instead of below 15th for long time. So I don't think we can say he is stand with ferguson, mourinho, conte. If he have us around 10th the next season, then compete 'constantly' in Europe after a year or two then he's could be considered, and deserve another chance to go there.

 

This is one of the reason I'm big supporter of claude puel at the momment, but this is not the place to tall about it. 

 

Regarding of atletico madrid, what I want to show is that,after the title win, they made another position

Previously, barcelona and real madrid are the 1st and 2nd. The 3rd are competition between valencia, sevilla, atletico madrid. By now 1,2,3 position are for them and 4th is competition for others. They didn't decline to be like 10th team after the title win. The oppositions surely learn their tactic, they can still survive for couple years and even be in final of ucl twice in less than 5 years. 

 

Regarding to mourinho, he recently won the European league, after man utd team were struggling under van gaal. He's might look decline, but his club aren't that good before he come, and aren't that bad after. 

 

For shorter version, ranieri in mind for now is around 9 or 10th club coach, rather than top 5 or bottom 5.

 

 

I disagree.

[Countryfox]

6 hours ago, Col city fan said:

Downright....have we gone back to 1890?

 

Forsooth varlet !! ...    I think the illiterate twerp meant downpipe Col but spelt it wrong ...        

[Hanan96]

4 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

 

 

 

 

I disagree.

No problem

[Countryfox]

5 minutes ago, Hanan96 said:

No problem

 

Cheers ...    

[HighPeakFox]

Suggesting I'm Jacob Rees - Mogg or the like does not negate the point I made... 

[Col city fan]

48 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Suggesting I'm Jacob Rees - Mogg or the like does not negate the point I made... 

The point you made was spot on mate.

I’m merely jesting.

[Mendi]

I really wish him good luck 

[Dan LCFC]

On 16/11/2018 at 13:38, fuchsntf said:

What!!!  Another blind opinion,trying g to be put into individuals facts..  What "fractured dressing room"!!?

Blind opinion? It's a frequent occurrence in his career. There was something clearly not right towards the end under him, you could see it based on the comments from the likes of Ulloa & Schlupp, Ulloa in-particular.

[Tuna]

Hmm not sure about this.

 

I think it will end in relegation and resignation for Claudio.

Still love him though.

[fuchsntf]

1 hour ago, Dan LCFC said:

Blind opinion? It's a frequent occurrence in his career. There was something clearly not right towards the end under him, you could see it based on the comments from the likes of Ulloa & Schlupp, Ulloa in-particular.

Oh dear !! 3 players jump up and cry boo, so the dressing room is lost!!! Wow

A squad of 20-30 players,should love the manager...

I respected Ulloas  disapointment....disagreements happen,but doesn't mean the dressing room was fractured,and splints were being handed out.

 

[OhYesNdidi]

33 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

Oh dear !! 3 players jump up and cry boo, so the dressing room is lost!!! Wow

A squad of 20-30 players,should love the manager...

I respected Ulloas  disapointment....disagreements happen,but doesn't mean the dressing room was fractured,and splints were being handed out.

 

The dressing room was rancid for the last 2 months of Claudio’s reign. Clearly the players didn’t like him & weren't playing for him. Claudio’s career backs the other statement up - starts well, usually lasts 2 seasons the gets sacked. 

[fuchsntf]

1 hour ago, OhYesNdidi said:

The dressing room was rancid for the last 2 months of Claudio’s reign. Clearly the players didn’t like him & weren't playing for him. Claudio’s career backs the other statement up - starts well, usually lasts 2 seasons the gets sacked. 

About average,for every manager...but every other manager hasn't come close to Ranieris CV.

real top managers yes,but you can count them on your 2hand s and 2 feet....I would be happy to have a CV like Ranieris!!!

[Dan LCFC]

23 hours ago, fuchsntf said:

Oh dear !! 3 players jump up and cry boo, so the dressing room is lost!!! Wow

A squad of 20-30 players,should love the manager...

I respected Ulloas  disapointment....disagreements happen,but doesn't mean the dressing room was fractured,and splints were being handed out.

 

Did you watch us?

[The Horse's Mouth]

On 17/11/2018 at 22:00, fuchsntf said:

Oh dear !! 3 players jump up and cry boo, so the dressing room is lost!!! Wow

A squad of 20-30 players,should love the manager...

I respected Ulloas  disapointment....disagreements happen,but doesn't mean the dressing room was fractured,and splints were being handed out.

 

Well if we believe what is reported, the squad is the reason he got sacked

[fuchsntf]

42 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Well if we believe what is reported, the squad is the reason he got sacked

But isn't that exactly the problem with football fans...they read,then throw away or take on the reports that fit their own ideology

of looking,for reasons of why,or blame!!!

 

Many have short memories,but the idea of a fractured dressing room,was firstly assumed and presumed because of blind posts

on this very forum...Then like the "Kings-clothes".  starts to roll as a train of thought,because one of Two players are misquoted,taken out

Of concept,then more posts come in and then an unbalanced thrown-in- the- pile  opinion,  ...for no reason becomes a fact!!

Then in this social-media world, journalists and media, looking for a juicy story pounce on it,then it rolls because nobody will be seen to deny it,

or when,(which happened from our strongest players) then some sarcastically for their own forum-attitude,will denounce or ignore it.

 

Edited 19 November 2018 by fuchsntf

[OhYesNdidi]

8 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

But isn't that exactly the problem with football fans...they read,then throw away or take on the reports that fit their own ideology

of looking,for reasons of why,or blame!!!

 

Many have short memories,but the idea of a fractured dressing room,was firstly assumed and presumed because of blind posts

on this very forum...Then like the "Kings-clothes".  starts to roll as a train of thought,because one of Two players are misquoted,taken out

Of concept,then more posts come in and then an unbalanced thrown-in- the- pile  opinion,  ...for no reason becomes a fact!!

Then in this social-media world, journalists and media, looking for a juicy story pounce on it,then it rolls because nobody will be seen to deny it,

or when,(which happened from our strongest players) then some sarcastically for their own forum-attitude,will denounce or ignore it.

 

The players clearly hated him for some reason. The performances during his last 2 months until his sacking back my statement up. It was appalling. 

[fuchsntf]

33 minutes ago, OhYesNdidi said:

The players clearly hated him for some reason. The performances during his last 2 months until his sacking back my statement up. It was appalling. 

Now we have a hate campaign!!!

[The Horse's Mouth]

1 hour ago, fuchsntf said:

But isn't that exactly the problem with football fans...they read,then throw away or take on the reports that fit their own ideology

of looking,for reasons of why,or blame!!!

 

Many have short memories,but the idea of a fractured dressing room,was firstly assumed and presumed because of blind posts

on this very forum...Then like the "Kings-clothes".  starts to roll as a train of thought,because one of Two players are misquoted,taken out

Of concept,then more posts come in and then an unbalanced thrown-in- the- pile  opinion,  ...for no reason becomes a fact!!

Then in this social-media world, journalists and media, looking for a juicy story pounce on it,then it rolls because nobody will be seen to deny it,

or when,(which happened from our strongest players) then some sarcastically for their own forum-attitude,will denounce or ignore it.

 

Put your head in the sand then but it was clear he lost the dressing room, his replacement got us playing a similar way to the season before and to the quarters of the champions league 

[fuchsntf]

9 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Put your head in the sand then but it was clear he lost the dressing room, his replacement got us playing a similar way to the season before and to the quarters of the champions league 

My head is no more in the sand than yours...I choose to look at other footballing  reasons,than headline makers.

I do believe Ranieri lost his way,I believe it was right to sack him!!!  

But there hard footballing reasons why that season became a folly,and even when rightly he tinkered,and tried different tactics or formations,

he wasn't IMO strong to keep,to his own ideology and dropped it without trusting his instinct.

Something even more simple,and hard for some fans to take,and Ranieri maybe to want to understand,our midfield were asked to do,or play

to roles and tactics they were not upto...but there were many issues and mitigating circumstances

So until someone from within confirms that the actual game-players,were part of a major  conspiracy with a fractured-changing room/squad,

I will ignore the grain of sands in my eyes!!

 

 

[Sionnach gorm]

Certainly Claudio is adept at taking what he’s been given and making it work.  He took Parma out of relegation, Cagliari and Monaco from the lower leagues to the top.  The question people are posting, are his second year at the helm.  Well, his second year have generally been successful.  He was sacked by Monaco for reaching second place, by Chelsea for the same (not winning champions league etc)...and it goes on.  He took Roma to second place in serie A while the previous manager lost the first three games.  It is unfortunate that people continue to say these things when the facts say otherwise.  

He has a record as any top manager.  Fulham should be happy to have him.

[Corky]

The team stopped playing, to go from no goals in six games under one manager to 15 in the next six under the next shows that.

[volpeazzurro]

12 hours ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Put your head in the sand then but it was clear he lost the dressing room, his replacement got us playing a similar way to the season before and to the quarters of the champions league 

His replacement was getting us relegated very quickly by trying to play a similar way without the requisite players to play it. As a manager he was utterly  clueless which is why I believe our owners replaced him.

[volpeazzurro]

5 hours ago, Sionnach gorm said:

Certainly Claudio is adept at taking what he’s been given and making it work.  He took Parma out of relegation, Cagliari and Monaco from the lower leagues to the top.  The question people are posting, are his second year at the helm.  Well, his second year have generally been successful.  He was sacked by Monaco for reaching second place, by Chelsea for the same (not winning champions league etc)...and it goes on.  He took Roma to second place in serie A while the previous manager lost the first three games.  It is unfortunate that people continue to say these things when the facts say otherwise.  

He has a record as any top manager.  Fulham should be happy to have him.

You are of course absolutely right, his career when gone into in detail and the full circumstances bear up to scrutiny. Sadly, some people only look as far as date started date finished. Fulham are lucky to get him, so were we for that one season. Let's just wish a very decent man well.