What's in the news?

[urban.spaceman]

1 hour ago, Wymeswold fox said:

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/sex-offender-rolf-harris-walks-2513689

Was he trying to show them his extra leg?

[WigstonWanderer]

3 hours ago, MattP said:

Pertinent given the comments of Donald Tusk today claiming some Brexiteers are going to hell.

 

Of all the weird statements we have had on this that might just be the strangest of them all, that little stage managed "leave the mic on" stunt with Varadker was just as peculiar. 

 

It's squeaky bum time - let's see who can hold their nerve.

Yup, no good staying up on that that ledge, just got to man up and jump. That pavement can’t possibly be as hard as they say.

Edited 6 February 2019 by WigstonWanderer

[Alf Bentley]

3 hours ago, MattP said:

 

Pertinent given the comments of Donald Tusk today claiming some Brexiteers are going to hell.

 

Of all the weird statements we have had on this that might just be the strangest of them all, that little stage managed "leave the mic on" stunt with Varadker was just as peculiar. 

 

It's squeaky bum time - let's see who can hold their nerve.

 

To be strictly accurate, Tusk wasn't referring to those who voted or supported Brexit - only to those who "promoted Brexit without even a sketch of a plan how to carry it out safely" (i.e. Boris, Davis, Fox, Farage & co).

Although I don't believe in hell, if it were to exist I'd certainly want them to be roasting on a spit there - along with Cameron & co for setting it all up, and maybe even Corbyn for his cynical token support of the party line.

 

Would be interesting to know the thinking behind Tusk making that comment, though, I agree. Clearly not just an ad lib.

[Toddybad]

2 hours ago, DANGEROUS TIGER said:

Donald Tusk - Adolph Hitler.

 

Hitler said Jews would go to hell, and now Tusk states Brexiteers will. Bids of a feather methinks. This man has no right to be in such a powerful position. With someone like him at the helm, we damn well need to be out of the E.U.

 

HARD BREXIT for me please.

 

What he said was spot on. 

And that's why the leave campaigners are moaning. 

They know he's right. 

[Guest MattP]

34 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

To be strictly accurate, Tusk wasn't referring to those who voted or supported Brexit - only to those who "promoted Brexit without even a sketch of a plan how to carry it out safely" (i.e. Boris, Davis, Fox, Farage & co).

Although I don't believe in hell, if it were to exist I'd certainly want them to be roasting on a spit there - along with Cameron & co for setting it all up, and maybe even Corbyn for his cynical token support of the party line.

 

Would be interesting to know the thinking behind Tusk making that comment, though, I agree. Clearly not just an ad lib.

I don't think anyone should really be forced into eternal suffering and damnation for a political decision, let alone one just based on leaving a political bloc, I can't work out these comments at all, I know Tusk is passionate about the project but he must realise the senior diplomat turning into Katie Hopkins isn't a good look at all for his organisation - maybe the pressure of it all is getting to him. Banking problems, upcoming elections to be dominated by populists, Brexit w/ potential no deal and recession is a toxic combination.

 

One thing for sure though - saying things like that and pandering to only a small percentage of remain fanatics isn't going to solve any problems and will only harder attitudes among the wider public to him and the EU.

[Wymsey]

1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said:

Was he trying to show them his extra leg?

This is apparently the head teacher of the school, that Harris entered the grounds of, asking him to leave the site.

[Guest MattP]

 

This really has sent some people completely nuts.

[urban.spaceman]

15 minutes ago, MattP said:

 

This really has sent some people completely nuts.

Really hope this doesn’t become a trend. The last thing we need is May doing this and making a tit out of herself. 

[Alf Bentley]

49 minutes ago, MattP said:

I don't think anyone should really be forced into eternal suffering and damnation for a political decision, let alone one just based on leaving a political bloc, I can't work out these comments at all, I know Tusk is passionate about the project but he must realise the senior diplomat turning into Katie Hopkins isn't a good look at all for his organisation - maybe the pressure of it all is getting to him. Banking problems, upcoming elections to be dominated by populists, Brexit w/ potential no deal and recession is a toxic combination.

 

One thing for sure though - saying things like that and pandering to only a small percentage of remain fanatics isn't going to solve any problems and will only harder attitudes among the wider public to him and the EU.

 

The reference to hell was clearly a rhetorical expression of frustration with a situation created by people who don't have any workable solutions (Boris & co). I'm sure that if, say, a Corbyn Govt took a political decision that you felt risked ruining your country, then you might express similar frustration.  That's how many of us view Brexit - and certainly the prospect of No Deal (though I'm still hopeful that will be avoided). Presumably, Tusk feels similar frustration about damage to his EU project.

 

Whatever his intention, I don't think it was to pander to Remain fanatics. In the same speech, he accepted Brexit as a fait accompli, implicitly criticising Corbyn and others for providing inadequate leadership of the Remain cause: 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6674301/Donald-Tusk-blames-pro-Brexit-Corbyn-dashing-Remain-hopes.html

"Donald Tusk today blamed Jeremy Corbyn's 'pro-Brexit' stance for killing off hopes of keeping Britain in the EU. The European council chief said the political 'facts' in the UK meant the historic decision to leave the bloc would not be reversed".

 

He made his comment in a calm, composed manner, so I doubt that it was the pressure getting to him. I presume it was more calculating than that. Maybe he's hoping to drive a wedge between the Hard Brexiteers and May - seeking to provoke the ERG crew so that they're less likely to support any compromises that May negotiates, in turn making it more likely that parliament will instead support a Soft Brexit renegotiation or even a second referendum? The implicit criticism of Corbyn & poor Remain leadership could be seen as a similar calculated provocation seeking to tilt the odds in British politics at a time when they're very fluid.....

 

The EU certainly has an in-tray full of problems, but so has the UK - a lot, lot more if we take the No Deal route. Still, only a few weeks now until Liam Fox unveils all those great trade agreements he's got lined up for Global Britain.....

[Kopfkino]

Labour's Brexit plan

https://www.scribd.com/document/399055327/Letter-to-PM-06-February-2019-1

 

First thoughts:

- Accepts the backstop

- close SM alignment and shared institutions basically means EEA or something essentially the same.

- Permanent customs union rules out EFTA-EEA though. UK say on trade policy possible through a new EEA agreement but probably expecting a bit much thinking it will be a proper say

- Is impossible to stay in the EAW so that's a bit daft to include.

[Alf Bentley]

10 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

Labour's Brexit plan

https://www.scribd.com/document/399055327/Letter-to-PM-06-February-2019-1

 

First thoughts:

- Accepts the backstop

- close SM alignment and shared institutions basically means EEA or something essentially the same.

- Permanent customs union rules out EFTA-EEA though. UK say on trade policy possible through a new EEA agreement but probably expecting a bit much thinking it will be a proper say

- Is impossible to stay in the EAW so that's a bit daft to include.

 

Interesting. Not only does the letter accept the backstop, there isn't a word of criticism of the Withdrawal Agreement. All the demands are for changes to the Political Declaration....

 

I presume Starmer, McDonnell or a few others must have twisted Jeremy's arm behind his back and had a strong word in his ear. 

[Stadt]

5 hours ago, Wymeswold fox said:

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/sex-offender-rolf-harris-walks-2513689

The one thing we didn’t want to happen 

[RODNEY FERNIO]

Typical comment from Tusk …. the man who comes from a country who gets more money than any other from the EU.

Remember 70 odd years ago when we helped save your country from the Germans … your EU bosom buddies.

[Toddybad]

18 minutes ago, RODNEY FERNIO said:

Typical comment from Tusk …. the man who comes from a country who gets more money than any other from the EU.

Remember 70 odd years ago when we helped save your country from the Germans … your EU bosom buddies.

What on earth does the war have to do with the quite clear fact that a bunch of leave campaigning MPs have taken us on a journey into the complete unknown without a map, compass, backpack or rations? 

[Voll Blau]

32 minutes ago, RODNEY FERNIO said:

Typical comment from Tusk …. the man who comes from a country who gets more money than any other from the EU.

Remember 70 odd years ago when we helped save your country from the Germans … your EU bosom buddies.

I suspect they'd rather we hadn't bothered if they knew we were going to be this much of a bunch of whiney cvnts about it seven decades later.

 

Germans are actually sound too now btw, just so you know.

Edited 7 February 2019 by Voll Blau

[RODNEY FERNIO]

2 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

 suspect they'd rather we hadn't bothered if they knew we were going to be this much of a bunch of whiney cvnts about it seven decades later.

 

Germans are actually sound too now btw, just so you know.

Met some great German people over the years … not a sleight against the German people.

Just having a go at Tusk's arrogant comment.

[Voll Blau]

Just now, RODNEY FERNIO said:

Met some great German people over the years … not a sleight against the German people.

Just having a go at Tusk's arrogant comment.

You seem to have a problem with Poland being EU "bosom buddies" with them because of a war you didn't even fight in.

[Lionator]

1 hour ago, RODNEY FERNIO said:

Typical comment from Tusk …. the man who comes from a country who gets more money than any other from the EU.

Remember 70 odd years ago when we helped save your country from the Germans … your EU bosom buddies.

 

 

Tusk is completely right and you know it. As Joanna Cherry said in parliament yesterday, the truth hurts doesn't it?

Edited 7 February 2019 by Lionator

[Guest MattP]

 

[Guest MattP]

10 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

The reference to hell was clearly a rhetorical expression of frustration with a situation created by people who don't have any workable solutions (Boris & co). I'm sure that if, say, a Corbyn Govt took a political decision that you felt risked ruining your country, then you might express similar frustration.  That's how many of us view Brexit - and certainly the prospect of No Deal (though I'm still hopeful that will be avoided). Presumably, Tusk feels similar frustration about damage to his EU project.

 

Whatever his intention, I don't think it was to pander to Remain fanatics. In the same speech, he accepted Brexit as a fait accompli, implicitly criticising Corbyn and others for providing inadequate leadership of the Remain cause: 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6674301/Donald-Tusk-blames-pro-Brexit-Corbyn-dashing-Remain-hopes.html

"Donald Tusk today blamed Jeremy Corbyn's 'pro-Brexit' stance for killing off hopes of keeping Britain in the EU. The European council chief said the political 'facts' in the UK meant the historic decision to leave the bloc would not be reversed".

 

He made his comment in a calm, composed manner, so I doubt that it was the pressure getting to him. I presume it was more calculating than that. Maybe he's hoping to drive a wedge between the Hard Brexiteers and May - seeking to provoke the ERG crew so that they're less likely to support any compromises that May negotiates, in turn making it more likely that parliament will instead support a Soft Brexit renegotiation or even a second referendum? The implicit criticism of Corbyn & poor Remain leadership could be seen as a similar calculated provocation seeking to tilt the odds in British politics at a time when they're very fluid.....

 

The EU certainly has an in-tray full of problems, but so has the UK - a lot, lot more if we take the No Deal route. Still, only a few weeks now until Liam Fox unveils all those great trade agreements he's got lined up for Global Britain.....

If Boris had said something similar to this, about a place in hell for EU politicians who had devastated the poorest countries in it his rhetoric would be called unhelpful, unstatesmanlike and offensive by many of them same now showing understanding to Tusk.

 

I'm not upset by the comments, I'm delighted - it will stiffen support against the EU and again makes them look like the extremists, even most Labour MP's have been critical of them and the only ones throwing their weight behind Tusk are the second referendum mob and people like the SNP and the Greens.

Edited 7 February 2019 by MattP

[Guest MattP]

10 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

Labour's Brexit plan

https://www.scribd.com/document/399055327/Letter-to-PM-06-February-2019-1

 

First thoughts:

- Accepts the backstop

- close SM alignment and shared institutions basically means EEA or something essentially the same.

- Permanent customs union rules out EFTA-EEA though. UK say on trade policy possible through a new EEA agreement but probably expecting a bit much thinking it will be a proper say

- Is impossible to stay in the EAW so that's a bit daft to include.

So that's the six tests gone I presume?

 

All still a bit vague, "a" customs union and close alignment to the single market means nothing in reality without finer detail.

 

I don't understand how we can sign up to something on workers rights, surely this is the job for the government post Brexit and nothing to do with the EU?

 

Gives them enough leeway to look like they want something different but to vote against whatever arrives.

[Alf Bentley]

16 minutes ago, MattP said:

If Boris had said something similar to this, about a place in hell for EU politicians who had devastated the poorest countries in it his rhetoric would be called unhelpful, unstatesmanlike and offensive by many of them same now showing understanding to Tusk.

 

I'm not upset by the comments, I'm delighted - it will stiffen support against the EU and again makes them look like the extremists, even most Labour MP's have been critical of them and the only ones throwing their weight behind Tusk are the second referendum mob and people like the SNP and the Greens.

 

You're right that most of us allow more leeway to "our side" and some on all sides are hypocrites. As a mirror image to the Remainer hypocrisy you describe, I'm sure many of those "outraged" at Tusk's "unstatesmanlike" comments about hell applauded loudly when Boris compared the EU to Napoleon and Hitler or said it was planning WW2-style punishment beatings.

 

When politicians make such comments, it's more interesting to try to work out what their intentions are. If it had been Juncker, he might have just been on the sauce at lunchtime. If it had been Verhoefstadt, it might have been a moment of emotion as he seems a fiery character. But Tusk comes across as a calmer bloke and my presumption is that he calmly planned that comment in advance....so why?

 

Maybe it was his intention to "stiffen support against the EU" among Hard Brexiteers so as to drive a wedge between them and May's pragmatic efforts to seek a compromise deal, thereby forcing her to compromise with Tory Remainers and/or Labour instead? He also chose to make undiplomatic, critical comments about UK Remain politicians (including Corbyn, by implication) - also planned in advance, I presume. Maybe I'm over-thinking it. Even if I'm not, it could backfire and boost support for No Deal. Certainly, the Irish Opposition leader said yesterday that he found the comments unhelpful.

 

We'll find out a lot next week, I presume. There certainly isn't much further that the can be kicked. 

[Toddybad]

12 hours ago, MattP said:

I don't think anyone should really be forced into eternal suffering and damnation for a political decision, let alone one just based on leaving a political bloc, I can't work out these comments at all, I know Tusk is passionate about the project but he must realise the senior diplomat turning into Katie Hopkins isn't a good look at all for his organisation - maybe the pressure of it all is getting to him. Banking problems, upcoming elections to be dominated by populists, Brexit w/ potential no deal and recession is a toxic combination.

 

One thing for sure though - saying things like that and pandering to only a small percentage of remain fanatics isn't going to solve any problems and will only harder attitudes among the wider public to him and the EU.

 

 

[Toddybad]

15 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

You're right that most of us allow more leeway to "our side" and some on all sides are hypocrites. As a mirror image to the Remainer hypocrisy you describe, I'm sure many of those "outraged" at Tusk's "unstatesmanlike" comments about hell applauded loudly when Boris compared the EU to Napoleon and Hitler or said it was planning WW2-style punishment beatings.

 

When politicians make such comments, it's more interesting to try to work out what their intentions are. If it had been Juncker, he might have just been on the sauce at lunchtime. If it had been Verhoefstadt, it might have been a moment of emotion as he seems a fiery character. But Tusk comes across as a calmer bloke and my presumption is that he calmly planned that comment in advance....so why?

 

Maybe it was his intention to "stiffen support against the EU" among Hard Brexiteers so as to drive a wedge between them and May's pragmatic efforts to seek a compromise deal, thereby forcing her to compromise with Tory Remainers and/or Labour instead? He also chose to make undiplomatic, critical comments about UK Remain politicians (including Corbyn, by implication) - also planned in advance, I presume. Maybe I'm over-thinking it. Even if I'm not, it could backfire and boost support for No Deal. Certainly, the Irish Opposition leader said yesterday that he found the comments unhelpful.

 

We'll find out a lot next week, I presume. There certainly isn't much further that the can be kicked. 

I was under the impression she is looking to kick the vote can back to the end of Feb? 

[Guest MattP]

8 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

You're right that most of us allow more leeway to "our side" and some on all sides are hypocrites. As a mirror image to the Remainer hypocrisy you describe, I'm sure many of those "outraged" at Tusk's "unstatesmanlike" comments about hell applauded loudly when Boris compared the EU to Napoleon and Hitler or said it was planning WW2-style punishment beatings.

 

When politicians make such comments, it's more interesting to try to work out what their intentions are. If it had been Juncker, he might have just been on the sauce at lunchtime. If it had been Verhoefstadt, it might have been a moment of emotion as he seems a fiery character. But Tusk comes across as a calmer bloke and my presumption is that he calmly planned that comment in advance....so why?

 

Maybe it was his intention to "stiffen support against the EU" among Hard Brexiteers so as to drive a wedge between them and May's pragmatic efforts to seek a compromise deal, thereby forcing her to compromise with Tory Remainers and/or Labour instead? He also chose to make undiplomatic, critical comments about UK Remain politicians (including Corbyn, by implication) - also planned in advance, I presume. Maybe I'm over-thinking it. Even if I'm not, it could backfire and boost support for No Deal. Certainly, the Irish Opposition leader said yesterday that he found the comments unhelpful.

 

We'll find out a lot next week, I presume. There certainly isn't much further that the can be kicked. 

Of course, Boris himself made some terrible comments and I did have a chuckle, I don't mind anyone who voted Remain having a chuckle at Tusks comments either, I even laughed myself.

 

I do think we might be over thinking this, it just smacked to me of a politician under pressure doing something quite silly, something at some point in time every politician has done, weirdly he even took to Twitter afterwards to repeat it. We don't want No Deal, they don't want No Deal and somebody is going to have to blink - I'm certain they were convinced by now our parliament would either have passed the deal they were happy with or there would be a public appetite to reverse it, instead the opposite is happening and the public seem to be moving towards risking no deal than a second referendum, comments like his yesterday show they have no idea of how the British react to things.

 

Verhofstadt actually did make a similar comment yesterday as well.

 

About an hour or so before he said it Euroelects released a poll as well showing 40% support for leaving the EU in France, I honestly think a few of them are cracking up and are quite worried, the biggest political union in the European parliament after June is likely to be a hostile one to it - I'm not sure they have a clue how to handle what is coming up.