Claude Puel calls for a Leicester City reality check

[yks]

1 hour ago, MC Prussian said:

A midtable team isn't expected to win against Chelsea or Manchester City or expected to lose against Cardiff, Newport or Southampton. That's just a bizarre type of logic. Maybe it's because you're French, but it doesn't make any sense whatsoever the way you put it.

It's not about expecting results, it's about performances, and the recent losses have been one big letdown. Again, even the Everton away match was a turgid affair, Jamie Vardy's goal a lifeline after a horrible first half, and apart from the goal, the rest of the match wasn't that much better, either.

 

"Relegation form" means exactly what it means, this isn't "lying". When you win five out of 21 matches, that IS relegation form, no matter where you are in the table. No matter which team wins less than 25% of its matches, home and away, is performing like a team destined for relegation. And current results indicate that we may enter just the same phase than we did last season, it's frightening how similar it's starting to become.

 

It's perfectly reasonable to look at a certain period of time and a certain number of results in order to detect a tendency. Here, I'll give you another: Ever since the Watford home match, our record (FA Cup and EFL Cup included) reads W3 D1 L6, winning only one home match in the process.

 

Seems to me you don't get the way fans think and are also highly defensive of Puel. I wonder whether that is because he's a fellow countryman or whether you two are related in some ways. Strange thing is, I can't recall you criticizing Puel even once ever since you joined, the only time you ever pop up is when people are criticizing the manager (for good reasons, among others). Then you're all over them. That's a very one-sided approach. And bizarre in itself.

 

Again, we are currently in 8th (previously in 7th) and given the fact that we're facing three more PL powerhouses in the next four matches, my guess is that we'll continue to slide down the table. March is a month where he could recover, but even then, I'm skeptic about beating teams we should beat - on paper - because we usually don't. We seem to have a very hard time acting as favourites in a match, the winning mentality that made us so strong seems to have evaporated. And to me, part of it is down to the manager - I'm not excluding the players from making mistakes.

I'll take my hat off to Claude should we finish 7th in May, but it's still a long way to go until then. To me, he's not getting the mix right between younger and more experienced players, we're looking at offloading even more older players (Silva, potentially Benalouane, Okazaki, Fuchs, etc.) and a young team alone can't win you things - exceptions prove the rule.

Puel's football is bland, uninspiring, highly defensive and cautious, he gets the odd results here and there, I just don't see an evolution in the progress that we're supposed to be making. To me, we are stuck in a very similar situation that we were a year ago. There's little to no progress. All in all, I suppose the argument(s) surrounding Puel now are a carbon copy of last season. He divides opinion massively, and right now, there's certainly more of a shift towards him getting sacked.

 

Your last paragraph is interesting, because once more, you absolve the manager from all responsibilities. It's all the players' fault, Claude set them up perfectly (in your mind), I guess. I'm sorry, but I can't take that sort of argumentation serious. Puel deployed three defensive midfielders against a team third from bottom and gave the instructions to be patient and hold back with attacks. 35 minutes until the first chance in front of the Southampton goal! Unable to break down a team with ten men. Sideways and backwards passing galore. Bizarre.

 

More and more fans are giving up on that kind of football, leaving matches ten, fifteen minutes before the end. People are fed up with it. That is disheartening, just as much as the football on show is. And it's about time Puel addressed this issue instead of giving interviews that mean fvck all midway through a season.

Maybe you don't follow football for a long time but losing against weaker teams sometimes and beating stronger ones IS expected for any club.

Relegation form exactly means : being one of the worst three teams of the league or having results really close to them.

I'm not related to Puel and him being French is probably influencal in the way I defend him, but just because contrary to 95% of the posters here, I know him and his career really well, not because we share the same nationality and it's baffling to read some absurdities that are simply the exact opposite of the truth.
For instance "Puel's football is bland, uninspiring, highly defensive and cautious, he gets the odd results here and there".
A highly defensive and cautious manager doesn't go for the win away, 10vs11 at 1-1 like against Brighton.
A highly defensive and cautious manager doesn't go for the win against Chelsea and Man City.
(Actually, about that, you don't even need to know his records to avoid saying absurdities like these)

Most of his critics seem to consider he began his career at Southampton and think they know his personality because they listened to 3 post-match interviews.
That's ignorance at its finest.

I also defend him because I believe (or know, based on the knowledge I have) he has all the tools to succeed in leading our project and because firing him would be at least extremely dangerous, because I don't think there are a lot of better coaches than him available and willing to join a club like us.

I also think that he certainly has flaws, but I'm not a professional and I can't possibly know what happens in the training sessions, why he choose a certain player or a certain tactics in a certain context, so I prefer not criticizing that since I have no way to know if the decisions are justified but I know when I see with my own eyes a player not being involved and not wanting to put some effort and a player who miss sitters a bit too often, so that's why I have no issues criticizing the players.

And then, his inteview doesn't mean **** all.
It means, as most of his supporter say, that he's doing a very good job in a very difficult context (Totally rebuilding and the style of play and the aging group of players when our adversaries have more financial power than us and still getting decent results in the process, dealing with the loss of Mahrez, dealing with the tragedy, etc)
 

Edited 15 January 2019 by yks

[C.J]

 I think he's just steadying the ship until someone else comes in. We're one of those teams now that others park the bus against. And it's upto us to find a way to break them down. We used to be the park the bus team. The only way we'll get any higher than 7th is major investment in the team, 40-50m on one player. Not wasting it on shite. But how do you attract those players? That's the question.

[Bob Hazels shorts]

3 hours ago, mozartfox said:

I am not a Puel out man, but just listening to Danny Higginbottom on Talkshite, he put forward some excellent theories and observations.  Very interesting. Maybe some clever person can somehow find and post his comments?

Here ya go

Don't class myself as clever though!!

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/8186004/leicester-puel-too-defensive-higginbotham/

 

 

 

[MC Prussian]

1 hour ago, yks said:

Maybe you don't follow football for a long time but losing against weaker teams sometimes and beating stronger ones IS expected for any club.

Relegation form exactly means : being one of the worst three teams of the league or having results really close to them.

I'm not related to Puel and him being French is probably influencal in the way I defend him, but just because contrary to 95% of the posters here, I know him and his career really well, not because we share the same nationality and it's baffling to read some absurdities that are simply the exact opposite of the truth.
For instance "Puel's football is bland, uninspiring, highly defensive and cautious, he gets the odd results here and there".
A highly defensive and cautious manager doesn't go for the win away, 10vs11 at 1-1 like against Brighton.
A highly defensive and cautious manager doesn't go for the win against Chelsea and Man City.
(Actually, about that, you don't even need to know his records to avoid saying absurdities like these)

Most of his critics seem to consider he began his career at Southampton and think they know his personality because they listened to 3 post-match interviews.
That's ignorance at its finest.

I also defend him because I believe (or know, based on the knowledge I have) he has all the tools to succeed in leading our project and because firing him would be at least extremely dangerous, because I don't think there are a lot of better coaches than him available and willing to join a club like us.

I also think that he certainly has flaws, but I'm not a professional and I can't possibly know what happens in the training sessions, why he choose a certain player or a certain tactics in a certain context, so I prefer not criticizing that since I have no way to know if the decisions are justified but I know when I see with my own eyes a player not being involved and not wanting to put some effort and a player who miss sitters a bit too often, so that's why I have no issues criticizing the players.

And then, his inteview doesn't mean **** all.
It means, as most of his supporter say, that he's doing a very good job in a very difficult context (Totally rebuilding and the style of play and the aging group of players when our adversaries have more financial power than us and still getting decent results in the process, dealing with the loss of Mahrez, dealing with the tragedy, etc)
 

You can't expect to win against better teams, just as much as you can't expect to lose to team at the bottom of the table. You may be able to take the scenario into consideration, but what happens on the pitch on the day is ultimately down to one's own instructions as the manager and how the players implement these instructions, plus how the opposition reacts to it. The manager is the leader of the pack, he sets the team up.

At no point do you go out as a manager or player and "expect" to win against Manchester City or Chelsea or "expect" to lose against Cardiff or Newport and a Southampton side down to ten men. There's so many elements coming into play, expectation is the least of it.

 

Relegation form is the form that you have based on a series of results that you usually credit to team at the bottom of the table. Any mid-table or Top Six team would ask their manager serious questions about five wins out of 21. And like I said, the upcoming few fixtures can be decisive. The signs are on the wall, and I seriously hope Puel has learnt from last season's fiasco.

 

We've talked about this before and yes, I realize Puel has had success in France in parts (great for him), has quite the reputation for promoting younger players (great for him). Yet now he's in his third season in English football (the second season with us), and I don't personally see any progress at all from a sportive perspective: Eliminated in all Cups again, nothing else to play for but 7th again, and likely to make a meal of it once more (just like last season). He's being praised for pushing younger players, yet it is often forgotten that many or most of these players have had their breakthrough under different managers.

 

At some point, I'd like you to make a case against Puel, but it seems you can't. You even ridicule LCFC fans that have now had to live with Puel for close to a year and a half and say they can't paint a better picture of their own manager after all they've heard and seen. No, it's not just down to three single interviews, he does it all the time. No, many fans do know about Puel's past in France (hello, Internet!), they do know about Ligue 1 and its limits and its particularities and they also know that the Premier League (today) is an entirely different kettle of fish. You come across as blinded by your own fanaticism in favour of a manager that no longer manages in his home country. Previous successes are all fine and dandy, but it's the present and future that matter most. At some stage, even you may have to realize that even a manager with credentials such as Puel's can fail abroad.

 

A highly defensive and cautious manager sets up a team against opposition such as Cardiff and Southampton, or even Newport, and gets 0 wins in return.

 

Our home form is rather abysmal, we score few goals, we have a ponderous and one-dimensional attacking system, the football on show is largely forgettable, ineffective long balls forward to Vardy, more and more players out of form, players coming up with strange errors, fans are bored, people are fed up with Puel's interviews and yes, the recent interview he just gave during an ongoing season isn't going to help him if he can't deliver on what he's promising. It is no good to come out now - to me, it reeks of a manager under pressure, desperately trying to justify some of his most bizarre managerial decisions as of late.

 

We can't just stay put in a constant state of "transition", that's just the manager angling for excuses. So we'll just have to continue to live with a few great results against better teams and more disappointing and strange results and performances against teams we ought to beat, in particular at home? And be happy about more youngsters than experienced players featuring in the squad? Is this all that we can and should strive for? This is the kind of Groundhog Day I'd like to avoid. Safety in the Premier League? Yes. But at what price? We have the funds at our disposal, we can indeed compete with the teams around us if we wanted to.

Edited 15 January 2019 by MC Prussian

[The Doctor]

2 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

When you win five out of 21 matches, that IS relegation form, no matter where you are in the table. No matter which team wins less than 25% of its matches, home and away, is performing like a team destined for relegation. And current results indicate that we may enter just the same phase than we did last season, it's frightening how similar it's starting to become.

Interesting that you ignored me pointing out yesterday that we've already got 3 wins from the final 21 games with 16 of them left to play. In reality we can either look at 9 wins from the opening 21 games and say probably 9 again, or a 60% win ratio in the first block of these last 21 games and say current form indicates 12/13 wins from the final 21. Saying we'll only win 5, which means only 2 more victories between now and the end of the season isn't borne out by anything.

 

But by all means, don't let facts get in the way of your nonsense.

Edited 15 January 2019 by The Doctor

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, Dahnsouff said:

I do wonder if Pearson had been appointed (Having no history with City) around the same time as Puel, would he to be currently hounded out? (or attempts to that end)

Guess in one sense Pearson was lucky, as his rebuild came at an all time low in terms of expectations

 

[Dorkingfox]

12 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

You can't expect to win against better teams, just as much as you can't expect to lose to team at the bottom of the table. You may be able to take the scenario into consideration, but what happens on the pitch on the day is ultimately down to one's own instructions as the manager and how the players implement these instructions, plus how the opposition reacts to it. The manager is the leader of the pack, he sets the team up.

At no point do you go out as a manager or player and "expect" to win against Manchester City or Chelsea or "expect" to lose against Cardiff or Newport and a Southampton side down to ten men. There's so many elements coming into play, expectation is the least of it.

 

Relegation form is the form that you have based on a series of results that you usually credit to team at the bottom of the table. Any mid-table or Top Six team would ask their manager serious questions about five wins out of 21. And like I said, the upcoming few fixtures can be decisive. The signs are on the wall, and I seriously hope Puel has learnt from last season's fiasco.

 

We've talked about this before and yes, I realize Puel has had success in France in parts (great for him), has quite the reputation for promoting younger players (great for him). Yet now he's in his third season in English football (the second season with us), and I don't personally see any progress at all from a sportive perspective: Eliminated in all Cups again, nothing else to play for 7th again, and likely to make a meal of it once more (just like last season). He's being praised for pushing younger players, yet it is often forgotten that many or most of these players have had their breakthrough under different managers.

 

At some point, I'd like you to make a case against Puel, but it seems you can't. You even ridicule LCFC fans that have now had to live with Puel for close to a year and a half and say they can't paint a better picture of their own manager after all they've heard and seen. No, it's not just down to three single interviews, he does it all the time. No, many fans know about Puel's past in France and they also know that the Premier League (today) is an entirely different kettle of fish. You come across as blinded by your own fanaticism in favour of a manager that no longer manages in his home country. Previous successes are all fine and dandy, but it's the present and future that matter most. At some stage, even you may have to realize that even a manager with credentials such as Puel's can fail abroad.

 

A highly defensive and cautious manager sets up a team against opposition such as Cardiff and Southampton, or even Newport, and gets 0 wins in return.

 

Our home form is rather abysmal, we score few goals, we have a ponderous and one-dimensional attacking system, the football on show is largely forgettable, ineffective long balls forward to Vardy, more and more players out of form, players coming up with strange errors, fans are bored, people are fed up with Puel's interviews and yes, the interview he gave during an ongoing season isn't going to help him if he can't deliver on what he's promising. It is no good to come out now - to me, it reeks of a manager under pressure, desperately trying to justify some of his most bizarre managerial decisions as of late.

 

We can't just stay put in a constant state of "transition", that's just the manager angling for excuses, so we'll just have to continue to live with a few great results against better teams and more disappointing and strange results and performances against teams we ought to beat, in particular at home? This is the kind of Groundhog Day I'd like to avoid. Safety in the Premier League? Yes. But at what price? We have the funds at our disposal, we can indeed compete with the teams around us if we wanted to.

Very good breakdown. He does not fill you with confidence and the football is boring, in fact turgid.

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, Babylon said:

 

How utterly depressing yet expected.

[Babylon]

8 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

How utterly depressing yet expected.

There were loads and loads slating him. Honestly with all the same stuff being said as is being said now.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

11 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

How utterly depressing yet expected.

I like someone in there lamenting at what an ''average'' signing Kasper was.

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

I like someone in there lamenting at what an ''average'' signing Kasper was.

Thanks @Babylon - those threads are a goldmine

As @AlloverthefloorYesNdidi mentioned above, this is a particular gem!!

 

"svens signing have been average at best. nugent, bamba and kasper included. no wonder we need plenty of signings"

[Mendi]

[MC Prussian]

34 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

Interesting that you ignored me pointing out yesterday that we've already got 3 wins from the final 21 games with 16 of them left to play. In reality we can either look at 9 wins from the opening 21 games and say probably 9 again, or a 60% win ratio in the first block of these last 21 games and say current form indicates 12/13 wins from the final 21. Saying we'll only win 5, which means only 2 more victories between now and the end of the season isn't borne out by anything.

 

But by all means, don't let facts get in the way of your nonsense.

That depends on what factors you take into consideration when you operate with probabilities. Stats always work in favour of those abusing them.

 

We've had a great start under Puel last season, then it all slowly, but steadily faded away thanks to a highly disappointing second half to the season.

 

Now, in his first full season in charge, with the players at his disposal that he wanted or the ones that he favours (evidently not Iborra or Silva, for example), we're now in 8th again after 22 matches. With only five points separating us from 12th. We're now up against a really good Wolves side, then face Liverpool, Manchester United and Spurs. Great days ahead.

 

Would you consider finishing 10th or below as a "success", given the players and financial resources available to us? That's not me being deluded or spoilt, I just think it'd be a step backwards (and yes, I do realize that sometimes, in order to make a step or two forward, you need to make one step back - but not two). In the end, it's not just about results, it's about performances. And what the average LCFC fan sees on the pitch doesn't fill him or her with a lot of confidence. Would you agree on that?

 

The ramifications of this season have also shifted compared to last campaign's. Swansea, Stoke and West Brom got 31 to 33 points in the end. Can you see all of Huddersfield (11) , Fulham (14) or Newcastle (18) getting there in the remaining 16 matches? It may well be that more points are being distributed among teams in between 8th and 17th than last season, which means the head of water is bigger than it was, resulting in us potentially finishing below 12th even.

Edited 15 January 2019 by MC Prussian

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

7 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

That depends on what factors you take into consideration when you operate with probabilities. Stats always work in favour of those abusing them.

 

We've had a great start under Puel last season, then it all slowly, but steadily faded away thanks to a highly disappointing second half to the season.

 

Now, in his first full season in charge, with the players at his disposal that he wanted or the ones that he favours (evidently not Iborra or Silva, for example), we're now in 8th again after 22 matches. With only five points separating us from 12th. We're now up against a really good Wolves side, then face Liverpool, Manchester United and Spurs. Great days ahead.

 

Would you consider finishing 10th or below as a "success", given the players and financial resources available to us? That's not me being deluded or spoilt, I just think it'd be a step backwards (and yes, I do realize that sometimes, in order to make a step or two forward, you need to make one step back - but not two). In the end, it's not just about results, it's about performances. And what the average LCFC fan sees on the pitch doesn't fill him or her with a lot of confidence. Would you agree on that?

 

The ramifications of this season have also shifted compared to last campaign's. Swansea, Stoke and West Brom got 31 to 33 points in the end. Can you see all of Huddersfield (11) , Fulham (14) or Newcastle (18) getting there in the remaining 16 matches? It may well be that more points are being distributed among teams in between 8th and 17th than last season, which means the head of water is bigger than it was, resulting in us potentially finishing below 12th even.

We havent near finished the season yet.  We have very much been in every game we have lost or drawn and thus far we have been putting enough points on the board to be 8th after playing everyone

 

Why cant you have a bit of patience and wait until May before deciding where we're going to finish

 

At the moment we're 8th.

 

FACTS DONT CARE ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS

Edited 15 January 2019 by AlloverthefloorYesNdidi

[MC Prussian]

3 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

We havent near finished the season yet.  We are still very much in every game we have lost and thus far we have been putting enough points on the board to be 8th after playing everyone

 

Why cant you have a bit of patience and wait until May before deciding where we're going to finish

 

At the moment we're 8th.

 

FACTS DONT CARE ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS

Like you said, and I agree, where we stand in May is when it counts the most.

 

The situation right now doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence, recent results have put a larger dent into my willingness to support this team under this manager. We may be in pretty much every game, even the ones we lost, but the fact is that we've lost to Cardiff, Newport and Southampton in a way that I think is unacceptable for this team and this manager.

Puel's only saving grace are the two results against Chelsea and Manchester City.

 

We jump from one extreme to the other in short periods of time, which has us staying put, unless the opposition manages to catch up with us.

I'd prefer us to go forward, instead of flirting with sideways moves so often.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

1 minute ago, MC Prussian said:

Like you said, and I agree, where we stand in May is when it counts the most.

 

The situation right now doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence, recent results have put a larger dent into my willingness to support this team under this manager. We may be in pretty much every game, even the ones we lost, but the fact is that we've lost to Cardiff, Newport and Southampton in a way that I think is unacceptable for this team and this manager.

Puel's only saving grace are the two results against Chelsea and Manchester City.

 

We jump from one extreme to the other in short periods of time, which has us staying put, unless the opposition manages to catch up with us.

I'd prefer us to go forward, instead of flirting with sideways moves so often.

If you're talking about the last 6 games you can say Everton are part of the saving grace

 

Yes, from one point of view we are sort of on the fence and it could go either way. Its easy to imagine us not picking up some of these unexpected wins and also failing to win the more ''winnable'' games and sliding down the table

 

As you say, May is when it counts.  And to be honest it is very hard to call how the rest of our season will go;  maybe not for the fans who have written the season off, but its a tough call for me

 

Every single fan I think would like to see us more positive and aggressive with the ball going forward.  Thats got to be top of the priority list for Puel and the team

[Babylon]

13 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Would you consider finishing 10th or below as a "success", given the players and financial resources available to us?

It's about where we should be all things considered, anywhere between 7-12th, depending on how close things are is within an acceptable area. I'd expect ups and downs within that zone season after season.

 

Lets say we get to the end of the season and finish 11th, but one more win would have seen us 8th. Would a converted penalty against Cardiff as an example have meant the season was a success? Does a manager lose their job on the basis of a player making a mistake?

 

If we finished 11th, 9 points behind Watford in 8th or something like that, then it has a difference slant on it compared to the example above.

 

People are currently getting hung up on a singular position. Position alone doesn't tell a story, there needs to be context to it.

[Dames]

3 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

If you're talking about the last 6 games you can say Everton are part of the saving grace

 

Yes, from one point of view we are sort of on the fence and it could go either way. Its easy to imagine us not picking up some of these unexpected wins and also failing to win the more ''winnable'' games and sliding down the table

 

As you say, May is when it counts.  And to be honest it is very hard to call how the rest of our season will go;  maybe not for the fans who have written the season off, but its a tough call for me

 

Every single fan I think would like to see us more positive and aggressive with the ball going forward.  Thats got to be top of the priority list for Puel and the team

The last sentence is absolutely key and if this started happening people wouldn't be so against Puel. A lot of people are pessimistic because A) the manager has told us to stop being optimistic with his 'reality check' B) we aren't winning games against those around or below us and C) the football is god awful.

 

The saving grace is that we've also picked up some unexpected wins against the top sides but a lot of fans are pessimistic because you can't base your whole season on picking up unexpected wins yet performing consistently poorly and not getting the results against the bread and butter. Those unexpected wins will eventually dry and and you have to absolutely start attacking and beating those around you to be successful, recent history suggests that Puel hasn't got this right and he might be running out of time.

 

[That_Dude]

20 hours ago, sycokilla said:

I agree he will be here till summer at least, unless results go rapidly downhill. I also think he will be here at the start of next season too if we end up mid table.

I have no problem with Puel coming out and telling us to be patient but I do have a problem with him making the excuse that because we can not compete financially with the top 6 that it is impossible to get there.

This was disproved only 3 seasons ago by the very club he is managing.

Personally I am just bored with the predictability and one paced playing.

I have watched every match this season and it seems easy to predict what will transpire during every. game apart from a couple of exceptions.

Im sure I am not the only one and this is tending to make our home atmosphere even more toxic.

[Bob Hazels shorts]

 

His plans and vision are a total myth promoted by him and the willing local media.

 

Many of his decisions in developing this vision are baffling and indefensible even to his most ardent supporter.  Dissect his time here, list  the positives and the negatives and you'll run out of time on the latter

 

His plodding football may work in France, we are in a flattering league position but its a false dawn.

 

Home and away for 40 or so years I am worried, not exited of what he's doing to the club.

 

 

Edited 15 January 2019 by Bob Hazels shorts

[The Doctor]

22 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

That depends on what factors you take into consideration when you operate with probabilities. Stats always work in favour of those abusing them.

 

We've had a great start under Puel last season, then it all slowly, but steadily faded away thanks to a highly disappointing second half to the season.

 

Now, in his first full season in charge, with the players at his disposal that he wanted or the ones that he favours (evidently not Iborra or Silva, for example), we're now in 8th again after 22 matches. With only five points separating us from 12th. We're now up against a really good Wolves side, then face Liverpool, Manchester United and Spurs. Great days ahead.

 

Would you consider finishing 10th or below as a "success", given the players and financial resources available to us? That's not me being deluded or spoilt, I just think it'd be a step backwards (and yes, I do realize that sometimes, in order to make a step or two forward, you need to make one step back - but not two). In the end, it's not just about results, it's about performances. And what the average LCFC fan sees on the pitch doesn't fill him or her with a lot of confidence. Would you agree on that?

 

The ramifications of this season have also shifted compared to last campaign's. Swansea, Stoke and West Brom got 31 to 33 points in the end. Can you see all of Huddersfield (11) , Fulham (14) or Newcastle (18) getting there in the remaining 16 matches? It may well be that more points are being distributed among teams in between 8th and 17th than last season, which means the head of water is bigger than it was, resulting in us potentially finishing below 12th even.

Ok, and what factors are you taking into account to say we're looking like finishing the season as poorly as last year (meaning only 2 more wins in the next 16 games)?

 

Also, the season doesn't end after 26 matches. It ends after 38 - yes the next four looks tough on paper, then we play 3 home games against Crystal Palace, Brighton and Fulham, along with a trip to Watford, in the following 4 - on paper, much easier. (Or the following 4, Burnley and Huddersfield away, Newcastle and Bournemouth at home, the only not in a relegation battle is Bournemouth who've lost 7 of their last 10). Selecting one difficult looking run is not good form in predicting the entire season. 

 

Our resources are less than both Manchester clubs, both Liverpool clubs, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea. With Wolves dodgy agent dealings and the dildo brothers, they're on a par with Wolves and West Ham (bear in mind that neither Vichai or now Top looked to bank roll us, wanting us to be sustainable, and likely can't readily summon a load of disposable money to pump in - so much of their personal wealth will be based on the ownership of King Power and it's value, not what's sat in their bank account). I'd say 7th-10th is a successful season.

 

Fairest way of predicting is looking at the table after everyone had played each other once, and we were 7th, and given we've only been lower than 12th once this season, after the first game (where the table never looks realistic - remember Huddersfield were top after 1 game last season), predicting we'll finish below 12th seems unlikely unless there's clear form to suggest we're declining - and there's not. 

 

[Bunyip]

1 hour ago, MC Prussian said:

You can't expect to win against better teams, just as much as you can't expect to lose to team at the bottom of the table. You may be able to take the scenario into consideration, but what happens on the pitch on the day is ultimately down to one's own instructions as the manager and how the players implement these instructions, plus how the opposition reacts to it. The manager is the leader of the pack, he sets the team up.

At no point do you go out as a manager or player and "expect" to win against Manchester City or Chelsea or "expect" to lose against Cardiff or Newport and a Southampton side down to ten men. There's so many elements coming into play, expectation is the least of it.

 

Relegation form is the form that you have based on a series of results that you usually credit to team at the bottom of the table. Any mid-table or Top Six team would ask their manager serious questions about five wins out of 21. And like I said, the upcoming few fixtures can be decisive. The signs are on the wall, and I seriously hope Puel has learnt from last season's fiasco.

 

We've talked about this before and yes, I realize Puel has had success in France in parts (great for him), has quite the reputation for promoting younger players (great for him). Yet now he's in his third season in English football (the second season with us), and I don't personally see any progress at all from a sportive perspective: Eliminated in all Cups again, nothing else to play for but 7th again, and likely to make a meal of it once more (just like last season). He's being praised for pushing younger players, yet it is often forgotten that many or most of these players have had their breakthrough under different managers.

 

At some point, I'd like you to make a case against Puel, but it seems you can't. You even ridicule LCFC fans that have now had to live with Puel for close to a year and a half and say they can't paint a better picture of their own manager after all they've heard and seen. No, it's not just down to three single interviews, he does it all the time. No, many fans do know about Puel's past in France (hello, Internet!), they do know about Ligue 1 and its limits and its particularities and they also know that the Premier League (today) is an entirely different kettle of fish. You come across as blinded by your own fanaticism in favour of a manager that no longer manages in his home country. Previous successes are all fine and dandy, but it's the present and future that matter most. At some stage, even you may have to realize that even a manager with credentials such as Puel's can fail abroad.

 

A highly defensive and cautious manager sets up a team against opposition such as Cardiff and Southampton, or even Newport, and gets 0 wins in return.

 

Our home form is rather abysmal, we score few goals, we have a ponderous and one-dimensional attacking system, the football on show is largely forgettable, ineffective long balls forward to Vardy, more and more players out of form, players coming up with strange errors, fans are bored, people are fed up with Puel's interviews and yes, the recent interview he just gave during an ongoing season isn't going to help him if he can't deliver on what he's promising. It is no good to come out now - to me, it reeks of a manager under pressure, desperately trying to justify some of his most bizarre managerial decisions as of late.

 

We can't just stay put in a constant state of "transition", that's just the manager angling for excuses. So we'll just have to continue to live with a few great results against better teams and more disappointing and strange results and performances against teams we ought to beat, in particular at home? And be happy about more youngsters than experienced players featuring in the squad? Is this all that we can and should strive for? This is the kind of Groundhog Day I'd like to avoid. Safety in the Premier League? Yes. But at what price? We have the funds at our disposal, we can indeed compete with the teams around us if we wanted to.

But do we have the funds ?  I seriously doubt that now. Puel saying we can't compete with the likes of Everton or Wolves sets the alarm bells ringing, coupled with no signings in January and having to take out a loan for the new stand is very worrying. I think the money tree is bare. something is not right on the financial and we are not being told of it, but it is being heavily hinted at. 

[waylander]

23 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

Ok, and what factors are you taking into account to say we're looking like finishing the season as poorly as last year (meaning only 2 more wins in the next 16 games)?

 

Also, the season doesn't end after 26 matches. It ends after 38 - yes the next four looks tough on paper, then we play 3 home games against Crystal Palace, Brighton and Fulham, along with a trip to Watford, in the following 4 - on paper, much easier. (Or the following 4, Burnley and Huddersfield away, Newcastle and Bournemouth at home, the only not in a relegation battle is Bournemouth who've lost 7 of their last 10). Selecting one difficult looking run is not good form in predicting the entire season. 

 

Our resources are less than both Manchester clubs, both Liverpool clubs, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea. With Wolves dodgy agent dealings and the dildo brothers, they're on a par with Wolves and West Ham (bear in mind that neither Vichai or now Top looked to bank roll us, wanting us to be sustainable, and likely can't readily summon a load of disposable money to pump in - so much of their personal wealth will be based on the ownership of King Power and it's value, not what's sat in their bank account). I'd say 7th-10th is a successful season.

 

Fairest way of predicting is looking at the table after everyone had played each other once, and we were 7th, and given we've only been lower than 12th once this season, after the first game (where the table never looks realistic - remember Huddersfield were top after 1 game last season), predicting we'll finish below 12th seems unlikely unless there's clear form to suggest we're declining - and there's not. 

 

Enjoying your balanced posts doctor making a nice change on here at the moment. 

[mazarron fox]

1 minute ago, Bunyip said:

But do we have the funds ?  I seriously doubt that now. Puel saying we can't compete with the likes of Everton or Wolves sets the alarm bells ringing, coupled with no signings in January and having to take out a loan for the new stand is very worrying. I think the money tree is bare. something is not right on the financial and we are not being told of it, but it is being heavily hinted at. 

The training facility and new stand are major outlay. Puel has said before there Is little value in the January window and this is pretty well known. My humble view is the club/ management consider we are safe and have Barnes back which to all purposes is equivalent of a new €20 m player. We need to unload which we are doing and likely we will push on in the summer with or without Puel.

[MC Prussian]

39 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

If you're talking about the last 6 games you can say Everton are part of the saving grace

 

Yes, from one point of view we are sort of on the fence and it could go either way. Its easy to imagine us not picking up some of these unexpected wins and also failing to win the more ''winnable'' games and sliding down the table

 

As you say, May is when it counts.  And to be honest it is very hard to call how the rest of our season will go;  maybe not for the fans who have written the season off, but its a tough call for me

 

Every single fan I think would like to see us more positive and aggressive with the ball going forward.  Thats got to be top of the priority list for Puel and the team

I agree with that. We are a surprise package at the moment. However, I think the league position is slightly flattering to us and it could all go pear-shaped rather quickly.

 

I just don't understand why on earth we're able to beat teams like the current champions and Chelsea, with Puel then pulling such a clanger with the initial tactics, personnel and in-game decisions against Cardiff, Newport and Southampton.

Even Everton away was so dire, with us lucky to pick up a win.

 

The guy's an enigma, and in the long run, his stubbornness will cost him his job. He shies away from leaving a particular comfort zone and I find it somewhat lackadaisical to promote this as "progress" or "trying to make progress". He seems to take pride in "trying" and then blames the failure not on himself, evades taking responsibility.

 

Also, I wouldn't say that there are that many fans that have written off the season, I'd argue most of them realize what potential we still have looking at finishing 7th in the extremely positive case. All in all, the perception that I have is that the manager is willingly happy not risking too much, in particular but also against "weaker" teams. For every positive result we get (and some of them were fantastic when you look at the financial prowess of Manchester City or Chelsea), we get a setback in the shape of Cardiff, Newport or Southampton.

 

And the football on show is really, really cringeworthy. Too often.