Guest MattP Posted 21 May 2019 Posted 21 May 2019 Well that was a good idea Theresa. Offer up a Customs Union deal and a second referendum two days before the European Elections Maybe tomorrow she could apply to join the Euro?
Guest Kopfkino Posted 21 May 2019 Posted 21 May 2019 Watched a bit of the Brexit Party's final rally earlier cos it popped up on Twitter. My ****ing god. Ended up deciding to vote Lib Dem cos bollocks to what leavers have turned Brexit into
leicsmac Posted 22 May 2019 Posted 22 May 2019 1 hour ago, Kopfkino said: Watched a bit of the Brexit Party's final rally earlier cos it popped up on Twitter. My ****ing god. Ended up deciding to vote Lib Dem cos bollocks to what leavers have turned Brexit into Having the freedom of choice to make a decision is far, far more important than the consequences of that decision - no matter what those consequences might be for the individual or (more importantly) anyone else. That's what this has been about all along, and it's time people figured that out and decide if it makes them comfortable or not.
Guest MattP Posted 22 May 2019 Posted 22 May 2019 Final EU polls - Brexit party certain to win with a bigger share than UKIP got in 2014. Pollsters don't have a clue who will finish second. The Conservatives could actually finish 5th in single figures, and those numbers are before May's announcement yesterday. https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1131124099328151552
Buce Posted 22 May 2019 Posted 22 May 2019 UN report compares Tory welfare policies to creation of workhouses Ministers in denial about impact of austerity since 2010, says poverty expert - UK’s poorest people face lives that are “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short”. A leading United Nations poverty expert has compared Conservative welfare policies to the creation of 19th-century workhouses and warned that unless austerity is ended, the UK’s poorest people face lives that are “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short”. In his final report on the impact of austerity on human rights in the UK, Philip Alston, the UN rapporteur on extreme poverty, accused ministers of being in a state of denial about the impact of policies, including the rollout of universal credit, since 2010. He accused them of the “systematic immiseration of a significant part of the British population” and warned that worse could be yet to come for the most vulnerable, who face “a major adverse impact” if Brexit proceeds. He said leaving the EU was “a tragic distraction from the social and economic policies shaping a Britain that it’s hard to believe any political parties really want”. The New York-based lawyer’s findings, published on Wednesday, follows a two-week fact-finding mission in November after which he angered ministers by calling child poverty in Britain “not just a disgrace but a social calamity and an economic disaster”. Now he has accused them of refusing to debate the issues he raised and instead deploying “window dressing to minimise political fallout” by insisting the country is enjoying record lows in absolute poverty, children in workless households and low unemployment. The “endlessly repeated” mantra about rising employment overlooks that “close to 40% of children are predicted to be living in poverty two years from now, 16% of people over 65 live in relative poverty and millions of those who are in work are dependent upon various forms of charity to cope”, he said. Amber Rudd, the work and pensions secretary, said in November she was “disappointed to say the least by the extraordinary political nature” of Alston’s language after his tour of places including Newcastle, Glasgow, Belfast, Cardiff, Jaywick and London. Alston replied in his 21-page final report that there was an “almost complete disconnect” between what ministers and the public saw. The impact of austerity was obvious to anyone who opened their eyes, he said. In his most barbed swipe at Rudd and her predecessors in charge of welfare, he said: “It might seem to some observers that the department of work and pensions has been tasked with designing a digital and sanitised version of the 19th-century workhouse, made infamous by Charles Dickens.” He said he had met people who had sold sex for money and joined gangs to avoid destitution. The government hit back calling Alston’s report “barely believable”. “The UN’s own data shows the UK is one of the happiest places in the world to live, and other countries have come here to find out more about how we support people to improve their lives,” a spokesperson for the Department for Work and Pensions said. “Therefore this is a barely believable documentation of Britain, based on a tiny period of time spent here. It paints a completely inaccurate picture of our approach to tackling poverty.” Alston will present his report to the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva next month and will argue that successive Conservative-led governments persisted with austerity and welfare cuts amid high levels of employment and a growing economy despite evidence that large-scale poverty was persisting. In doing so, “much of the glue that has held British society together since the second world war has been deliberately removed and replaced with a harsh and uncaring ethos ... British compassion has been replaced by a punitive, mean-spirited and often callous approach apparently designed to impose a rigid order on the lives of those least capable of coping.” The report slams the government’s austerity programme, with criticisms of “shocking” rises in the use of food banks and rough sleeping, falling life expectancy for some, the “decimation” of legal aid, the denial of benefits to the severely disabled, falling teachers’ salaries in real terms and the impoverishment of single mothers and people with mental illness. Alston said austerity had “deliberately gutted” local authorities, shrinking library, youth, police and park services to the extent that it was not surprising there were “unheard-of levels of loneliness and isolation”. There was some praise for ministers for increases in work allowances under the universal credit welfare system and supporting the national minimum wage, but Alston said these measures had had not stopped the “dramatic decline in the fortunes of the least well-off”. He recommended ministers reverse local government funding cuts, scrap the benefits cap, eliminate the five-week delay in receiving initial universal credit benefits and rethink the privatisation of services including rural transport. “Thomas Hobbes observed long ago, such an approach condemns the least well-off to lives that are ‘solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short’,” he said. “As the British social contract slowly evaporates, Hobbes’ prediction risks becoming the new reality.”
Haywood_6 Posted 22 May 2019 Posted 22 May 2019 7 hours ago, Kopfkino said: Watched a bit of the Brexit Party's final rally earlier cos it popped up on Twitter. My ****ing god. Ended up deciding to vote Lib Dem cos bollocks to what leavers have turned Brexit into I'm voting lib Dem as well. Farage is a pound shop Enoch Powell. All Brexit is doing is distracting us from all the important issues in the country, protecting public services, climate change, knife crime. Kids being stabbed everyday in London and yet all our attention is on this mess and it has been for the past three years.
davieG Posted 22 May 2019 Posted 22 May 2019 Euro Elections info on candidates. All I've had is two leaflets one from Brexit and one from UKIP even they gave no info on the actual candidates. As I like to know a bit more about the candidates as well as what party they are standing for I find myself thinking why should I bother if the parties/candidates don't seem to care. It's like having a go in a lottery.
Guest MattP Posted 22 May 2019 Posted 22 May 2019 6 minutes ago, davieG said: Euro Elections info on candidates. All I've had is two leaflets one from Brexit and one from UKIP even they gave no info on the actual candidates. As I like to know a bit more about the candidates as well as what party they are standing for I find myself thinking why should I bother if the parties/candidates don't seem to care. It's like having a go in a lottery. I've received BP, Tory and Labour - the last two didn't even mention Brexit which was strange for a European Election leaflet.
David Guiza Posted 22 May 2019 Posted 22 May 2019 I don't like David Davies at all, but do feel slightly for him here. That woman is bizarre.
bovril Posted 22 May 2019 Posted 22 May 2019 This is quite intriguing. https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/mind-control-secret-british-government-blueprints-shaping-post-terror-planning
Buce Posted 22 May 2019 Posted 22 May 2019 24 minutes ago, bovril said: This is quite intriguing. https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/mind-control-secret-british-government-blueprints-shaping-post-terror-planning ‘Intriguing’? Sinister is the word I would use.
bovril Posted 22 May 2019 Posted 22 May 2019 5 minutes ago, Buce said: ‘Intriguing’? Sinister is the word I would use. Yeah. Social engineering basically.
Innovindil Posted 22 May 2019 Posted 22 May 2019 1 hour ago, Buce said: ‘Intriguing’? Sinister is the word I would use. Can I ask why? Surely you've seen enough of the "kill all de muzzies" reactions after attacks that a few well placed hash tags and paid for speeches would seem a more preferable option. Yeah it sucks that people have to be coerced into not being cvnts, but that's been happening since the dawn of man I'd imagine.
Buce Posted 22 May 2019 Posted 22 May 2019 21 minutes ago, Innovindil said: Can I ask why? Surely you've seen enough of the "kill all de muzzies" reactions after attacks that a few well placed hash tags and paid for speeches would seem a more preferable option. Yeah it sucks that people have to be coerced into not being cvnts, but that's been happening since the dawn of man I'd imagine. Because there is nothing to prevent them from using the same techniques for less desirable outcomes. I dislike and am suspicious of any form of social control.
Alf Bentley Posted 22 May 2019 Posted 22 May 2019 A couple of decent, balanced articles about the British Steel crisis: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/may/22/what-went-wrong-at-british-steel https://www.theguardian.com/business/nils-pratley-on-finance/2019/may/21/who-are-the-villains-of-the-british-steel-crisis "Choose your villain in the British Steel crisis. The government has dithered for years about the future of steelmaking in the UK and has stumbled from one crisis to another. Or blame the unresolved Brexit pantomime in Westminster. Or point to the company’s private equity owner, Greybull Capital, whose past calamities include Monarch Airlines and electricals chain Comet. There’s truth in all versions". Uncertainty over Brexit is clearly a major factor. That's not necessarily a pro- or anti-Brexit point. Orders from Europe have dried up because customers don't know what the future price will be: i.e. whether they'll have to pay tariffs as well as the normal price. The company has also had to cough up some extra dosh for carbon-offsetting (funded by a govt loan) because of the delay over any Brexit decision. On the other hand, market conditions have been difficult for years - excess supply, especially from China, forcing down prices. Then there's the "free market" focus of our Govt, whereas Govts in other countries tend to be more prepared to step in to help strategically important industries...........but then again, the owners who took British Steel over a couple of years back seem to be from the shitty end of the capitalist spectrum, so denying them taxpayers' money might be the right decision for taxpayers..... Bad situation for those affected, though - particularly as the impact is set to focus on places with few economic alternatives (Scunthorpe) or that have already suffered losses in other industries (Middlesbrough)....
Innovindil Posted 22 May 2019 Posted 22 May 2019 28 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: A couple of decent, balanced articles about the British Steel crisis: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/may/22/what-went-wrong-at-british-steel https://www.theguardian.com/business/nils-pratley-on-finance/2019/may/21/who-are-the-villains-of-the-british-steel-crisis "Choose your villain in the British Steel crisis. The government has dithered for years about the future of steelmaking in the UK and has stumbled from one crisis to another. Or blame the unresolved Brexit pantomime in Westminster. Or point to the company’s private equity owner, Greybull Capital, whose past calamities include Monarch Airlines and electricals chain Comet. There’s truth in all versions". Uncertainty over Brexit is clearly a major factor. That's not necessarily a pro- or anti-Brexit point. Orders from Europe have dried up because customers don't know what the future price will be: i.e. whether they'll have to pay tariffs as well as the normal price. The company has also had to cough up some extra dosh for carbon-offsetting (funded by a govt loan) because of the delay over any Brexit decision. On the other hand, market conditions have been difficult for years - excess supply, especially from China, forcing down prices. Then there's the "free market" focus of our Govt, whereas Govts in other countries tend to be more prepared to step in to help strategically important industries...........but then again, the owners who took British Steel over a couple of years back seem to be from the shitty end of the capitalist spectrum, so denying them taxpayers' money might be the right decision for taxpayers..... Bad situation for those affected, though - particularly as the impact is set to focus on places with few economic alternatives (Scunthorpe) or that have already suffered losses in other industries (Middlesbrough).... Not found the time to look into this beyond what the BBC were offering. Cheers for the links I'll read them when I find the time. At first glance though I'm glad the government didn't step in and throw money at it. They've already had a £100mill loan off them and it seems dodgy as balls to me when a private company magically goes from desperately needing £75mill to survive to just £30mill. Just looks like they were fishing for spare cash doesn't it? Or they didn't want to dip into their own pockets. Definitely a shite situation for the workers though, can only hope that since it seems its been in decline for some time now they've managed to organise a plan B.
Guest Kopfkino Posted 22 May 2019 Posted 22 May 2019 27 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: A couple of decent, balanced articles about the British Steel crisis: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/may/22/what-went-wrong-at-british-steel https://www.theguardian.com/business/nils-pratley-on-finance/2019/may/21/who-are-the-villains-of-the-british-steel-crisis "Choose your villain in the British Steel crisis. The government has dithered for years about the future of steelmaking in the UK and has stumbled from one crisis to another. Or blame the unresolved Brexit pantomime in Westminster. Or point to the company’s private equity owner, Greybull Capital, whose past calamities include Monarch Airlines and electricals chain Comet. There’s truth in all versions". Uncertainty over Brexit is clearly a major factor. That's not necessarily a pro- or anti-Brexit point. Orders from Europe have dried up because customers don't know what the future price will be: i.e. whether they'll have to pay tariffs as well as the normal price. The company has also had to cough up some extra dosh for carbon-offsetting (funded by a govt loan) because of the delay over any Brexit decision. On the other hand, market conditions have been difficult for years - excess supply, especially from China, forcing down prices. Then there's the "free market" focus of our Govt, whereas Govts in other countries tend to be more prepared to step in to help strategically important industries...........but then again, the owners who took British Steel over a couple of years back seem to be from the shitty end of the capitalist spectrum, so denying them taxpayers' money might be the right decision for taxpayers..... Bad situation for those affected, though - particularly as the impact is set to focus on places with few economic alternatives (Scunthorpe) or that have already suffered losses in other industries (Middlesbrough).... Nils Pratley is usually ace but it's a glaring error to miss out the effect of green policies. This is partly green policy having its desired effect. Also another government/civil service cock-up. British Steel has gone into compulsory liquidation meaning no amount of short-term lending was going to save it so who analysed it and gave the go-ahead to piss £120m down the drain?
Alf Bentley Posted 22 May 2019 Posted 22 May 2019 34 minutes ago, Kopfkino said: Nils Pratley is usually ace but it's a glaring error to miss out the effect of green policies. This is partly green policy having its desired effect. Also another government/civil service cock-up. British Steel has gone into compulsory liquidation meaning no amount of short-term lending was going to save it so who analysed it and gave the go-ahead to piss £120m down the drain? Could you explain that first point? I have little knowledge of this beyond mainstream media coverage. As I understand it, they supposedly got the previous govt loan to pay for carbon credits that they only had to buy because they were excluded from free permits due to Brexit uncertainty? In theory, that makes it a Brexit issue rather than a green issue, doesn't it? I presume the free permits are funded from the general EU budget (i.e. EU taxpayers, ultimately), are they? Or are you making a different point about green policy re. energy prices or something? Mind you, as per your second point and Pratley's article, the fact that they've run into serious trouble despite that loan suggests much wider problems, whether that's to do with global steel markets, mismanagement at British Steel or lost orders due to Brexit uncertainty (possibly all of them). The fact that other steel companies aren't going bust (yet) also suggests that part of the explanation relates to the particular company. Nice touch by them to rename the company British Steel after they bought it & then seek a load of money from the British taxpayer a couple of years later....could be seen as a cynical plan to minimise their own spending & engage in emotional blackmail....
Guest Kopfkino Posted 22 May 2019 Posted 22 May 2019 9 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: Could you explain that first point? I have little knowledge of this beyond mainstream media coverage. As I understand it, they supposedly got the previous govt loan to pay for carbon credits that they only had to buy because they were excluded from free permits due to Brexit uncertainty? In theory, that makes it a Brexit issue rather than a green issue, doesn't it? I presume the free permits are funded from the general EU budget (i.e. EU taxpayers, ultimately), are they? Or are you making a different point about green policy re. energy prices or something? Mind you, as per your second point and Pratley's article, the fact that they've run into serious trouble despite that loan suggests much wider problems, whether that's to do with global steel markets, mismanagement at British Steel or lost orders due to Brexit uncertainty (possibly all of them). The fact that other steel companies aren't going bust (yet) also suggests that part of the explanation relates to the particular company. Nice touch by them to rename the company British Steel after they bought it & then seek a load of money from the British taxpayer a couple of years later....could be seen as a cynical plan to minimise their own spending & engage in emotional blackmail.... Undoubtedly the timing and what has happened is a Brexit thing both because of uncertainty impacting sales and the delay meaning it ****ed up its carbon credit trade. But it was a more general point that if you have some of the highest green taxes in the world and pursue tougher carbon policies then heavy industry is going to suffer, particularly when even government then decides to import steel for cost reasons. It just seems strange to miss that out because ultimately the UK steel industry can't survive long-term, Brexit or no Brexit.
Guest MattP Posted 22 May 2019 Posted 22 May 2019 Just now, Facecloth said: This has aged well Errr...aren't we still in the EU?
Jimothy Posted 22 May 2019 Posted 22 May 2019 2 minutes ago, MattP said: Errr...aren't we still in the EU? Only for the bad things. Good = because we voted leave. Bad = because we're still in.
Guest MattP Posted 22 May 2019 Posted 22 May 2019 5 minutes ago, Facecloth said: Only for the bad things. Good = because we voted leave. Bad = because we're still in. Tbh @Kopfkino nailed it - Brexit or no Brexit it's collapsing, China, green policy and cost see to that.
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