Comic Relief/Poverty Porn/White Saviour Complex

[theessexfox]

There's a big debate on Twitter at the moment prompted by David Lammy's comments about Stacey Dooley's work in Uganda and her Instagram of her and a young Ugandan child. What do you make of Comic Relief, the use of (mainly white) celebrities with these kinds of images to tug on the heartstrings, the portrayal of Africans as victims in need of saviours? Do you think this kind of aid is based around making us in the West feel good about ourselves and pat ourselves on the back? Do you think the West has a debt to places like Africa for the legacies of colonialism and slavery?

 

I agree with some of what David Lammy says and disagree with others: I don't think that celebrities and aid workers go to Africa with the mentality of a 'civilizing mission', and I think Comic Relief inevitably rely on celebrities raising the profile of the problems they are tackling to increase donations, however cynically that may be done. I do think that there is a tendency of this kind of work to make it about the celebrity and the 'saviour' riding in to save helpless victims, rather than an empowering message that recognises the real progress being made by people all across Africa and the continent as a whole. I also think there is a debate to be had about the effectiveness of aid and whether it promotes dependency in the long-term. Finally, I think the teaching of the history of colonialism is quite awful and we'd benefit a lot from knowing more about the darker side of our history such as the Bengal famine and the suppression of the Mau Mau uprising in Kenya.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Izzy]

I'm sure that everybody has the right intentions and maybe we should just be tolerant and accept that people are all just trying their best to help (however clumsy, awkward, distorted or cynical it might come across)

[Jimothy]

Obviously there are still issues in Africa, it's why we still have events like this, it's why celebrities jump on board (possibly for their own PR, but whatever) to raise awareness. Lammys call to have more voices of Africans and stop showing Africa in this light is a weird way of thinking. Clearly famous people adding their voice helps create interest and donations. And showing the better side of Africa won't make people want to donate. Some African filmmaker isn't going to have the same reach as a popular well known celebrity. I also think Comic Relief regularly show the difference the money has made over the years and how Africa has improved.

 

I don't like how he's turned it into a race thing. Wasn't comic relief the idea of a black man in Lenny Henry? Who cares what colour the skin is of they get the message across and increase donations. 

 

I think how aid is spent etc is a wider conversation to be had, but that's not relevant to this discussion. We shouldn't distract from the good work being done and we shouldn't criticise celebrities for giving their time to promote the cause, be it Stacey Dooley or Lenny Henry.

[bovril]

22 minutes ago, theessexfox said:

Do you think this kind of aid is based around making us in the West feel good about ourselves and pat ourselves on the back? 

 

A lot of it, yes. Lammy has a point although as usual he makes it in a heavy-handed way.
And I agree with your last sentence that there is a severe lack of understanding of the colonial period and its legacy. A lot of English people seem genuinely surprised that the rest of the World doesn't see us as the good guys just because of WW2. 

[foxy boxing]

David Lammy is right, the people of Africa need there own celebrities and politicians highlighting the problems there. and finding their own solutions, with the help and need of people wanting to help like Stacey Dooley and others. it is about getting the exposure and if using celebrities gets more exposure for a cause then that can only be a good thing. the west can't keep apologising for it's colonial past, what has happened, happened and you can't change the past. what people can do is to work together for a better future for the whole of Africa. through fairtrade and through aid going to where it is needed the most.

[TheUltimateWinner]

If people want to help those in need it's great and shouldn't be criticised. The offer was given to Lammy to go out and help and there was no response.

 

I only view comic relief as a platform to showcase people in need, same as children in need, not every child in England, Africa, Europe etc needs help, but this shows that some do and shows exactly where the money goes.

 

The celebrities are only involved to highlight the issues more, last time I watched one of the charity events it goes into more detail about how help is being given off camera etc.

[Mike Oxlong]

I thought colour shouldn’t matter

 

All I see is one human being helping another

 

 

 

 

[TheUltimateWinner]

Just now, Mike Oxlong said:

I thought colour shouldn’t matter

 

All I see is one human being helping another

 

 

 

 

Spot on, that's the entire thing for me and the whole point.

[Guest MattP]

Parts of what Lammy says is right, there is a desire especially for rich white people to show how much they care when it comes to stuff like this and they seem desperate to get themselves into the public eye with a picture of a poor black child.

 

It can be quite uncomfortable to watch and the way to really alleviate poverty in  Africa is to open up trade and cooperation in the same way the West has with many parts of Asia.

 

As usual though he makes he point like the buffoon he is, often just coming across as a racist though nowadays after a strange couple of years, every issue and every subject he brings race into it and he seems to really have a problem with white people.

 

But anyway, any thread with David Lammy is any excuse to any post these.....

 

 

 

 

[Jimothy]

@MattP that second video is from a comedy sketch surely 

[Guest MattP]

1 minute ago, Facecloth said:

@MattP that second video is from a comedy sketch surely 

It's brilliant isn't it, I remember watching it live and was genuinely laughing out loud.

[Jimothy]

@MattP you might be right in some cases regarding rich white people wanting to show how much they care, but I think it's an unfair generalisation. It was harsh of Lammy to highlight Dooley. She's been known for making documentaries for years on various subjects, highlighting injustice. Having just won Strictly I'm sure she's just using her new found bigger profile to promote this one. I'm sure some have the wrong motives but not all. It's an easy and lazy thought process to assume anyone famous and with a bit of money can't be a genuinely nice person who has other peoples interests at heart.

[Innovindil]

If they sent a black British celebrity over there for this would he be kicking off still? Doubt it. 

 

Jumped up jackass still caught up on Britain's history. Needs to give his head a wobble and let the (few) people that want to help actually do so without racist sneering from the sidelines. 

[Guest Kopfkino]

No idea why anyone still pays attention to anything David Lammy says. Just a race-baiting identity politician. Which is a shame because he ends up crowding out useful discussion through his ineptitude. 

[urban.spaceman]

Lammy is partly right, though the language and tactics he uses is pure race baiting stupidity. People like him, Afua Hirsch, Munroe Bergdorf, Yasmin Alibahi Twatface and Kehinde Andrews use this race baiting language as it winds people up enough to be racist back (which proves their point) but also because it’s profitable clickbaitery at its finest. There’s money to be made in telling everyone everything is racist. 

 

But the point overall is right. There still persists a patronising attitude towards Africa and Africans which is well meaning but still ignorant. Ricky Gervais has already mocked the “white saviour complex” perfectly (“Do it yourself I’ve gotta save some Africans!”). His Comic Relief sketch is utter genius and mericilessly takes the piss out of it. 

 

Look, I’ve lived in Cape Town, Botswana, spent a hell of a lot of time in Namibia, Zambia and Mozambique. I ****ing love Africa. My heart belongs in the Mother City and I can’t wait to be back in the Kalahari. Yes they have their problems, but for the most part they are beautiful parts of the world with amazing cultures and wonderful people. 

 

Aid is mostly palliative. It doesn’t deal with the root issues and doesn’t help people thrive. What we should be doing is investing in Africa, opening up trade routes and spending money there. Whenever we see something happening on the news in Africa it’s always something bad. I get frustrated so often when you see someone talking about a World Tour and Africa is ALWAYS excluded.

 

I wish we’d take Africa seriously because it’s a ****ing amazing place with amazing people. 

[theessexfox]

8 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

No idea why anyone still pays attention to anything David Lammy says. Just a race-baiting identity politician. Which is a shame because he ends up crowding out useful discussion through his ineptitude. 

I don't like how he goes about raising his points but I thought he ignited a discussion about an important point.

[Jimothy]

13 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Lammy is partly right, though the language and tactics he uses is pure race baiting stupidity. People like him, Afua Hirsch, Munroe Bergdorf, Yasmin Alibahi Twatface and Kehinde Andrews use this race baiting language as it winds people up enough to be racist back (which proves their point) but also because it’s profitable clickbaitery at its finest. There’s money to be made in telling everyone everything is racist. 

 

But the point overall is right. There still persists a patronising attitude towards Africa and Africans which is well meaning but still ignorant. Ricky Gervais has already mocked the “white saviour complex” perfectly (“Do it yourself I’ve gotta save some Africans!”). His Comic Relief sketch is utter genius and mericilessly takes the piss out of it. 

 

Look, I’ve lived in Cape Town, Botswana, spent a hell of a lot of time in Namibia, Zambia and Mozambique. I ****ing love Africa. My heart belongs in the Mother City and I can’t wait to be back in the Kalahari. Yes they have their problems, but for the most part they are beautiful parts of the world with amazing cultures and wonderful people. 

 

Aid is mostly palliative. It doesn’t deal with the root issues and doesn’t help people thrive. What we should be doing is investing in Africa, opening up trade routes and spending money there. Whenever we see something happening on the news in Africa it’s always something bad. I get frustrated so often when you see someone talking about a World Tour and Africa is ALWAYS excluded.

 

I wish we’d take Africa seriously because it’s a ****ing amazing place with amazing people. 

I think the points about opening trade and treating Africa seriously are spot on. But that's not happening right now and charity drives like this are at least doing something. It's not Comic Reliefs fault that governments aren't doing their part to make Africa self sufficient. Maybe Comic Relief could distribute the funds differently, and if that's the point Lammy is trying to make it would be fine if he didn't do it in way he does. There's no need to bring race into it, and there's no need to throw accusations at people. He's going after the wrong people in the wrong way. He's in parliament for Christ sake, try and make a difference there if he's so passionate about making Africa self sufficient. Making a difference to policy is why he's voted in, and I'm sure this kind of policy would get cross bench support.

[Guest Kopfkino]

29 minutes ago, theessexfox said:

I don't like how he goes about raising his points but I thought he ignited a discussion about an important point.

 

I don't disagree that it's an important point to discuss but he didn't ignite discussion about the point really and has managed to crowd out important discussion. His cack-handed ineptitude has left the broader point still under discussed because it's become about David Lammy, as David Lammy nearly always manages to do, so why listen to him? 

 

There could be a lot more done by changing the portrayals to change perceptions and improving education on such subjects. Go make the point, don't go bleating "white saviour" at the people you want to change their perceptions and understanding.

 

[RonnieTodger]

Any good intention he's had has just been completely outweighed by his pure stupidity and ignorance. To make Stacey Dooley the poster girl for "White saviour" is piss poor, given all the documentaries that she does. A bit of research wouldn't go amiss.

 

Whilst there should be more documentaries made about the appealing areas of Africa, the BBC aren't making this up. These are people in abject poverty and people that quite obviously need help. Hard-hitting videos are bound to raise more awareness and more importantly, money.

 

The phrase "poverty porn" is just plain weird. 

[Nalis]

I've always been cynical of the usual comic relief celeb videos but its a catch 22. 

 

Someone from, say, One Direction would be more likely to raise awareness through their profile than most others so the pros probably outweigh the con there.

 

One thing that really f vcks me off and sums it up in a nutshell is that booking.com ad where that blonde haired kno bhead is filming a selfie with african kids 'helping' when in reality its all very 'look at me'.

[RoboFox]

1 hour ago, RonnieTodger said:

The phrase "poverty porn" is just plain weird. 

This. It makes me feel quite uncomfortable, actually.

[urban.spaceman]

3 hours ago, Facecloth said:

I think the points about opening trade and treating Africa seriously are spot on. But that's not happening right now and charity drives like this are at least doing something. It's not Comic Reliefs fault that governments aren't doing their part to make Africa self sufficient. Maybe Comic Relief could distribute the funds differently, and if that's the point Lammy is trying to make it would be fine if he didn't do it in way he does. There's no need to bring race into it, and there's no need to throw accusations at people. He's going after the wrong people in the wrong way. He's in parliament for Christ sake, try and make a difference there if he's so passionate about making Africa self sufficient. Making a difference to policy is why he's voted in, and I'm sure this kind of policy would get cross bench support.

Absolutely, he’s in an excellent position to do something positive but instead he targets Stacey ****ing Dooley who’s actually doing far more good than he is. Even now he’s just shared a video of an African comedienne taking a pop at Western people volunteering at African orphanages. The general point she was making was funny but it was inherently bigoted and yet again attacking the wrong people. 

 

When I was doing an internship in Cape Town for video editing I lived with many people who were working in the townships with orphans or special needs children (and one Canadian guy working with abused women to help educate and empower them). Only ONE of them fit the stereotype of the white saviour complex. She had T-shirts saying “I ❤️ Refugees!” and shared about 40 pictures a week on Facebook of her helping the poor Africans. She was from a wealthy background and you could tell she didn’t really care about anyone but herself (we called her Princess Thundercvnt)

 

Otherwise the people that were there were there because they wanted to ****ing help people. Not because they were white and wanted to help black people, but because they were ****ing human. Not all of them were white either - there were quite a few black Americans volunteering too - are they also white saviours?

 

Africa has its problems of course, some countries still have corruption and of course the West has played its part in negative ways. But focussing on the past and on race helps nobody. China is investing billions in Africa and so should we.

[MC Prussian]

Funnily enough, I just saw Carl Benjamin's video on the Lammy statements a few minutes ago.

I also think that it's another "public outrage scam" as a means to an end. Lammy resides over Tottenham, coincidentally a London area with lot of African, Caribbean or Eastern European immigrants as part of the population. To me, it reeks of pandering to the voters - let's not forget, he's had his eyes on the mayor's seat for a while now.

 

As for the comments, I wouldn't read too much into it. It's just talk. The fact that he's twice declined to partake in a PR tour for Comic Relief in Africa says it all.

 

On the whole, I find it a bit ridiculous to come out with such claims, because I don't see him in the position to represent another country, let alone another continent. Let's just say that donations have done a very good job in Africa over the past few decades, providing help and assistance the countries' own governments couldn't provide for one reason or another.

And Africa on the whole is on the move, less poverty, more education, better transportation and communication systems (cell phones have helped massively).

Just don't let the Chinese take on all investments, willya?

 

All in all, another headshake moment when it comes to Labour. No need for this populist propaganda from the Left.

[urban.spaceman]

2 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Funnily enough, I just saw Carl Benjamin's video on the Lammy statements a few minutes ago.

I also think that it's another "public outrage scam" as a means to an end. Lammy resides over Tottenham, coincidentally a London area with lot of African, Caribbean or Eastern European immigrants as part of the population. To me, it reeks of pandering to the voters - let's not forget, he's had his eyes on the mayor's seat for a while now.

 

As for the comments, I wouldn't read too much into it. It's just talk. The fact that he's twice declined to partake in a PR tour for Comic Relief in Africa says it all.

 

On the whole, I find it a bit ridiculous to come out with such claims, because I don't see him in the position to represent another country, let alone another continent. Let's just say that donations have done a very good job in Africa over the past few decades, providing help and assistance the countries' own governments couldn't provide for one reason or another.

And Africa on the whole is on the move, less poverty, more education, better transportation and communication systems (cell phones have helped massively).

Just don't let the Chinese take on all investments, willya?

 

All in all, another headshake moment when it comes to Labour. No need for this populist propaganda from the Left.

Agreed with absolutely everything, including the highlighted part, which is why I’ve always been particularly confused as to why an MP for Islington has spent his career getting involved certain sides of certain conflicts that are occasionally coming back to bite him in the arse now he’s leader of the opposition. (Though that’s a debate for another thread...)

[Trav Le Bleu]

Yes, that's right. Only black people can help black people and white people help white people. Arabs and Jews helping each other out is certainly something I never want to see, disgusting. Why can't they be more like Pakistan and India... people of a common racial heritage working in harmony.