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Happy Fox

30-50m Winger

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1 minute ago, Babylon said:

At the starts of the summer most people were saying we needed a winger, not two wingers. We've signed Perez who is clearly playing that position, so I'm not sure why people have now reverted to needing two wingers. Is it lack of faith in Perez? Is he not a fancy enough, or unknown enough to peak peoples interest?

 

When people talk about centre backs, they seem more than happy to just give Benkovic and Soyuncu a go. Yet the same attitude doesn't see to be taken with the likes of Barnes, who was the great white hope about 5 months ago. 

Agreed I don’t think we need a winger to be honest as like you say Perez has filled that void for me! I’m expecting a big season from Barnes this year and having Albrighton/Gray/Ghezzal as back up aren’t bad options... unless we ship out Gray (maybe part of a deal for Ake) or Ghezzal is stick with what we’ve got 

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7 minutes ago, Babylon said:

At the starts of the summer most people were saying we needed a winger, not two wingers. We've signed Perez who is clearly playing that position, so I'm not sure why people have now reverted to needing two wingers. Is it lack of faith in Perez? Is he not a fancy enough, or unknown enough to peak peoples interest?

 

When people talk about centre backs, they seem more than happy to just give Benkovic and Soyuncu a go. Yet the same attitude doesn't see to be taken with the likes of Barnes, who was the great white hope about 5 months ago. 

It's the desire and craving for exciting attacking players, I'm sure of it. It's also because Perez is a utility type forward and then the fear is Albrighton, Barnes and Gray continue to struggle to score and we are that 5-10 goals short of where we need to be to compete with the top 6.

 

Me and you have queried for a while about whether we would spend big this summer and unless we go and spend £75-100m in the next few days then we won't have done but if we are going to, the positions that will be improved are out wide and attacking midfield.

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I think we need another proven creative type player than can score, can we rely on Ghezzal, Gray, Barnes, Albrighton? 

 

Do we have enough goals in the team as it is? 

 

I'm not sure what we need tbh

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I think from what I've seen from Perez so far he needs to be given a free role (like Mahrez at times) across the 4 attacking positions. He seems to have that bit of extra quality we've lacked since Mahrez's departure. Albrighton would be the perfect player to play with him being more disciplined and rigid - I think they'll compliment each other well. 

You've then got Barnes and Gray who could potentially replace Perez and I've been very impressed with Ghezzal with his strength and discipline so he could perhaps be brought in to play that Albrighton role if needed for the final 20 mins or cup games. 

 

If we were to sign another winger, it would need to be a hard working Albrighton type player and then we'd be fully balanced and have so many options.

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36 minutes ago, wattolcfc said:

There has got to be some movement on this today, surely?

We will probably wait for the Harry Maguire transfer to be announced by Manchester United first, which would be a sign that the Man United money has reached our accounts.

 

Once that's done, I am sure things will progress quickly. Personally I wouldn't be surprised if a new centre back was announced today! 

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25 minutes ago, Babylon said:

At the starts of the summer most people were saying we needed a winger, not two wingers. We've signed Perez who is clearly playing that position, so I'm not sure why people have now reverted to needing two wingers. Is it lack of faith in Perez? Is he not a fancy enough, or unknown enough to peak peoples interest?

 

When people talk about centre backs, they seem more than happy to just give Benkovic and Soyuncu a go. Yet the same attitude doesn't see to be taken with the likes of Barnes, who was the great white hope about 5 months ago. 

Personally I think you are right, perez does fill the need for a winger and think he will quietly go about scoring a lot of goals for us this season. However I get the general feeling that this forum does not rate either gray or ghezzel and the likelihood of them coming good is minimal. If both were set to leave or be pushed down the pecking order, a winger would be required. Think we need to get an attacking midfielder that can also play wide (olmo or suso would be my choice) as then we are covered if vards get injured and rodgers prefers perez up top to nacho. 

 

Think if you look at our squad now, the 'weaker' areas in comparison to teams around us is attacking mid depth, a solid cb and then goals from the wide areas. Barnes will be a fantastic player, like soyuncu and benkovic but rodgers seems to have used him more as an impact player and can see that being the case this season. I would be happy to start the season without another winger, just as football fans, we always want more and there will always be more excitement from a new winger than a new cb, even if the cb is much more crucial. 

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4 minutes ago, Babylon said:

At the starts of the summer most people were saying we needed a winger, not two wingers. We've signed Perez who is clearly playing that position, so I'm not sure why people have now reverted to needing two wingers. Is it lack of faith in Perez? Is he not a fancy enough, or unknown enough to peak peoples interest?

 

When people talk about centre backs, they seem more than happy to just give Benkovic and Soyuncu a go. Yet the same attitude doesn't see to be taken with the likes of Barnes, who was the great white hope about 5 months ago. 

I agree it has been a strange one, signing someone who plays wide and straight away rumouring that he wasn't the "big" winger we are after! 

 

I think it depends on how Perez is seen, I'm not over familiar with his game but it sounded like he can play wide or just behind the CF and it sounded like we were replacing Shinji with the added bonus of being comfortable out wide. This sounds like an ideal person to have on the bench but the "problem" comes if he does well and forces himself into being a starter out wide we'd need him to be fresh enough late in the game to move inside if we're chasing a game as Rodgers has been willing to introduce both Nacho amd Shinji.

 

On their day Barnes, Perez and Albrighton all have enough about them to be starters. Maybe over a season we need that fourth winger, currently Gray (who can to a degree play down the middle too). I just think it would be a huge statement to replace Gray with someone like Zaha and know you have someone  who is virtually guaranteed to have an impact and hurt the opposition regardless of who we're playing. It doesn't appear crucial and I always begrudge Albrighton being the considered weak link but to go to that next level having selection headaches is fine and that's one position where it would be good to have  the flexibility of Perez and an upgrade on a player (Gray) who doesn't always have an impact.

 

And I've forgotten Ghezzal.....I'm all for understanding a bedding in period but how many times was he subbed at half time or very early last season, which other club have a senior pro they've had to do that to? I think he has qualities but if we are to be ahead of Wolves and Everton and be biting on Arsenals coat tails I think we need to go that extra step.

 

Another factor is that if Justin is on the bench he could come on and Ricardo push up to RW? If we're chasing a game I could see this happening.

 

And let's not forget though that when we play Choudhury, Ndidi and Tielemans one of the wide players is left out, with the horses for courses approach.

 

So considering all of that I'd agree it's not critical that we get one but if we resolve CB and have big money available there's not many other positions that need it IF Perez can cover Maddison if he picks up an injury. If it happens it should really be for someone top drawer and helped financially and squad place wise with a sacrifice (not literally, that would be harsh) of Gray and/or Ghezzal.

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I think this is over simplifying things to try and fit the narrative you want to be honest. 

 

A lot of people (a LOT of people) were calling for back up to Vardy. The general consensus immediately after Perez signed was that he'd be a good transfer to add depth generally to the squad. Given he's played most of his games at 9 and 10 and considers them his preferred positions that's not unreasonable. 

 

That said, given our lack of depth in all attacking positions it was never unfair to hope we'd sign two wingers even if Perez had been one. 

 

There was also a blanket assumption across the board that Barnes would be starting but it looks in the last few games like he isn't in Rodgers' intended first eleven. If Albrighton is considered by the manager to be our best "left forward" in a 433 then it's definitely not unreasonable to hope we'd sign a better option given he's largely unsuitable. 

 

Perez didn't play a single game as a 9 last season, he played as 10 but the majority was wide right. Considering we don't need a 10, I'm not been sure why he's been considered as the Vardy backup. He was always clearly going to mostly be the winger, for me at least.  So the board assumed Barnes was good enough, but now they don't because Albrighton might start? 

 

I just find the "go with 4 centre backs" "give the two unknowns a go" attitude in one thread totally at odds with how people are talking about the wide roles, when we already have 5 wingers and one of them at least falls into the same "give them a go" type category in Barnes. 

 

If money is unlimited then sod it, let's go nuts and get another one. But I keep thinking that we've got a massive Vardy shaped hole appearing on the horizon at some point and we're going to need to go very big there if we want anywhere close to his quality. So it might be worth keeping the tinder dry if money isn't unlimited and we've got enough wide options out there for now. 

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1 minute ago, North Leeds Fox said:

Personally I think you are right, perez does fill the need for a winger and think he will quietly go about scoring a lot of goals for us this season. However I get the general feeling that this forum does not rate either gray or ghezzel and the likelihood of them coming good is minimal. If both were set to leave or be pushed down the pecking order, a winger would be required. Think we need to get an attacking midfielder that can also play wide (olmo or suso would be my choice) as then we are covered if vards get injured and rodgers prefers perez up top to nacho. 

 

Think if you look at our squad now, the 'weaker' areas in comparison to teams around us is attacking mid depth, a solid cb and then goals from the wide areas. Barnes will be a fantastic player, like soyuncu and benkovic but rodgers seems to have used him more as an impact player and can see that being the case this season. I would be happy to start the season without another winger, just as football fans, we always want more and there will always be more excitement from a new winger than a new cb, even if the cb is much more crucial. 

If we can trade Gray out for someone in I'd be more than happy. 

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I assume most agree: Perez might occasionally be needed as a 2nd striker. Albrighton is a great winger, but it'd be great to have another proven (sorry Barnes, Ghezzal, Gray) goalscoring winger. But we also have lots of goalscoring potential in other areas (Tielemans, Maddison, Ricardo), so maybe backup for a number 8/10 is best... or maybe we sign someone who can play those roles and on the wing.

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I think the issue is with Barnes is the uncertainty. He is clearly a raw talent, but one criticism is at times, he looks exactly that. But on the flip side would a Ferran Torres be any more consistent? If we're going to look to bring in an attacking player, I would rather they be experienced like Ziyech, as we may as well stick with Barnes, I'd rather we work with him than bring in Torres and run the risk of stunting Barnes' development. 

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28 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Perez didn't play a single game as a 9 last season, he played as 10 but the majority was wide right. Considering we don't need a 10, I'm not been sure why he's been considered as the Vardy backup. He was always clearly going to mostly be the winger, for me at least.  So the board assumed Barnes was good enough, but now they don't because Albrighton might start? 

 

I just find the "go with 4 centre backs" "give the two unknowns a go" attitude in one thread totally at odds with how people are talking about the wide roles, when we already have 5 wingers and one of them at least falls into the same "give them a go" type category in Barnes. 

 

If money is unlimited then sod it, let's go nuts and get another one. But I keep thinking that we've got a massive Vardy shaped hole appearing on the horizon at some point and we're going to need to go very big there if we want anywhere close to his quality. So it might be worth keeping the tinder dry if money isn't unlimited and we've got enough wide options out there for now. 

I think we all agree it will be goals scored and not being a Burnley type team at the back that gives us any chance of upsetting the top 6. I know it's naïve to place less importance on defence but Jonny Evans is the organiser and the experience there and had Soyuncu and Benkovic signed this week on the back of Maguire leaving then I can't imagine there'd be that much disappointment that neither of them are proven PL players. Both fit the criteria we seemed to base our recruitment on in the last few years. We haven't seen Benkovic but we know he has question marks on his fitness, we've barely seen Soyuncu but he is getting slated as being a liability even though the errors he's made haven't actually led directly to more than 1 goal being conceded in the games he's played for us, he does need to improve though but he'll only get that opportunity to do so by playing and having the confidence and faith instilled in to him. Yet both of them were highly sought after young players and both full internationals already.  It's a tricky one, ambitions and expectation have move up a level since Rodgers has arrived and what I've described above probably fits in with a team looking to improve from 9th-12th but we seem to really want and expect to challenge top 6 and to do so the way you operate as a club and the transfer policy does change too.

 

 

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Wondering if we have relaxed our interest in a wide right attacker, based on the performances of Ayoze. Reckon Ayoze will be enough to cover the wide (right) attacking position?

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For me, it's always been about the squad depth..

 

Perez-Vardy-Albrighton is capable of getting us into Europe, with a bit of help from Tielemans and Maddison of course. However, where are the options on the bench to change the game?? We can't be sure Iheanacho is going to find form & Barnes is still very raw.

 

When you compare our options on the bench to Chelsea's, they can bring on Pedro or Willian. Man Utd could bring on Mata or Sanchez. We can all agree these players have had poor seasons the past couple years but they are still proven quality.. We have no proven quality in reserve. We do need more than Perez, Vardy & Albrighton. Whether that's another striker or another winger, strength in depth is a necessity in my opinion. 

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1 hour ago, Babylon said:

At the starts of the summer most people were saying we needed a winger, not two wingers. We've signed Perez who is clearly playing that position, so I'm not sure why people have now reverted to needing two wingers. Is it lack of faith in Perez? Is he not a fancy enough, or unknown enough to peak peoples interest?

 

When people talk about centre backs, they seem more than happy to just give Benkovic and Soyuncu a go. Yet the same attitude doesn't see to be taken with the likes of Barnes, who was the great white hope about 5 months ago. 

I think alot of folk on here at the start of the window (myself included) were saying we needed a winger AND a striker. Obviously with Perez's versatility, he's looking likely to be the one to play up top if Vardy can't, leading to people now saying we need another winger. 

 

I predict Perez will play on the right but if Vardy is injured and he moves up top, who takes his place? As it stands, I'm thinking it will be Gray or Albrighton as I would have Barnes start on the left with our current squad. 

 

I don't think it's a major issue but there is no doubt that if our front 3 where vardy perez and another quality winger, should anything happen to our main striker, ot leaves us far stronger with Barnes coming of the bench. 

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5 minutes ago, Foxy_Bear said:

I think alot of folk on here at the start of the window (myself included) were saying we needed a winger AND a striker. Obviously with Perez's versatility, he's looking likely to be the one to play up top if Vardy can't, leading to people now saying we need another winger. 

 

I predict Perez will play on the right but if Vardy is injured and he moves up top, who takes his place? As it stands, I'm thinking it will be Gray or Albrighton as I would have Barnes start on the left with our current squad. 

 

I don't think it's a major issue but there is no doubt that if our front 3 where vardy perez and another quality winger, should anything happen to our main striker, ot leaves us far stronger with Barnes coming of the bench. 

The fact we've signed a "utility player" surely says that we were never going to get a striker and a winger... otherwise we'd have got specialists in both areas? Not saying I agree with that, but that's how it looks. Perhaps Rodgers wants to give Iheanacho one last shot?

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32 minutes ago, Babylon said:

The fact we've signed a "utility player" surely says that we were never going to get a striker and a winger... otherwise we'd have got specialists in both areas? Not saying I agree with that, but that's how it looks. Perhaps Rodgers wants to give Iheanacho one last shot?

That's a fair comment. Never looked at it that way. 

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Does anybody know who plays striker for Liverpool? Winger? :ph34r::fishing:

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36 minutes ago, Babylon said:

The fact we've signed a "utility player" surely says that we were never going to get a striker and a winger... otherwise we'd have got specialists in both areas? Not saying I agree with that, but that's how it looks. Perhaps Rodgers wants to give Iheanacho one last shot?

Okazaki was a utility player we signed (was playing as a 9, 10 and winger at Mainz) similar to Perez, but hardly ever can recall times where we used him out wide or as a 9. Just because someone is a utility player doesn’t mean they don’t have their best position in a system, for Perez, his best position in ours looks to be RW. He’s not recognised as a specialist wide man though, which is why nearly everyone seems to agree we are still short in that area. 

Edited by pmcla26

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I don't think we're playing a rigid forward line? It appears that Maddison, Parez and Albrighton will all swap positions and move around. Plus Youri can push up into that 10 role also. Perhaps there isn't a need to a new wide man, and Brendan is happy with what he has. We can't say Albrighton is not good enough for a side with top 6 aspirations, he did win the premier league. 

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1 minute ago, Pliskin said:

I don't think we're playing a rigid forward line? It appears that Maddison, Parez and Albrighton will all swap positions and move around. Plus Youri can push up into that 10 role also. Perhaps there isn't a need to a new wide man, and Brendan is happy with what he has. We can't say Albrighton is not good enough for a side with top 6 aspirations, he did win the premier league. 

But so did Schlupp, Huth, Simpson, Okazaki, Ulloa and Drinkwater and yet we'd not want any of them back here as first choice.

 

What I admire about Albrighton is that he never really suffers dips in form, what you see is what you get with him. However, he has never scored enough and we can argue that he was good enough to help us win the league but Brendan Rodgers teams are all about scoring goals and if he can't notch 6-10 a season then he won't be first choice for very long. Last season the assists dried up for him as well but if he can at least get back to setting up goals then he's a valuable asset but long term we still need better wide players.

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6 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

We can't say Albrighton is not good enough for a side with top 6 aspirations, he did win the premier league. 

 

Albrighton won the league as a wide midfielder in a 4411 playing counter attacking football where his defensive contributions were valued above all else. 

 

Albrighton is not under any circumstances a goal scoring wide forward in a 433.

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