2019/20 Under 23's, U19's, Development ... thread

[coolhandfox]

6 hours ago, An Sionnach said:

There you go, you seem to be fearful of giving these players a chance, only one KDH had any time in the cup runs. If we were playing well at the moment I could understand it but we are not and these younger players remain untried. We will not and I mean not solve all our problems with the transfer markets we need to bring our younger players through.

I personally think, throwing them in a struggling side could have a very negative impact on their development and confidence. 

 

6 hours ago, An Sionnach said:

I refer you to the teams selected by the forum for tonights match and not one of them include Barnes or Choudhury . Have you given up on them already?

I've not given up on anyone as I've not posted a team, and personally think Barnes gets in our strongest 11, whilst Choudhury still has a lot to learn. 

[moore_94]

It isn't just us, seems to be happening at a lot of the bigger clubs lately as well, talented young players walking away from Man Utd, Man City, PSG etc.

 

 

Edited 2 July 2020 by moore_94

[UniFox21]

1 minute ago, moore_94 said:

It isn't just us, seems to be happening at a lot of the bigger clubs lately as well, talented young players walking away from Man Utd, Man City, PSG etc.

 

 

Players have started to realise they need game time to progress as pressure is too great for teams to start bedding them in and loans seem to be reduced. 

 

Sancho's success after being just an u23 at Man City has highlighted this more and given players the confidence to go and try to get games.

[Foxxed]

On 29/06/2020 at 22:28, themightyfin said:

Gyamfi is one we are going ro regret. Has a great chance of making it at the very top. 

I only saw him in HK7s but he looked good and had a great work ethic and attitude, judging from a video we posted. Why did he go?

[Foxxed]

On 30/06/2020 at 14:20, Stadt said:

Rudkin was formerly head of academy, got promoted obviously and now the current head of academy is the former head of LCFC community coaching. There’s rumour’s that Peake will be replaced internally too. There’s not an influx of new ideas and styles if vacancies are only filled from within. Idiakez wasn’t here long, Halajko, the geezer from Norwich soon left as well. 
 

I’ll keep labouring this point but you wouldn’t build a state of the art fighter jet and stick the Red Baron in it. Our facilities won’t be utilised properly if we carry on with our admin era coaching set up  

Idiakez left to join Pearson

[moore_94]

1 minute ago, UniFox21 said:

Players have started to realise they need game time to progress as pressure is too great for teams to start bedding them in and loans seem to be reduced. 

 

Sancho's success after being just an u23 at Man City has highlighted this more and given players the confidence to go and try to get games.

Definitely, pretty sure they are bringing in new rules to restrict the amount of players out on loan from clubs because of the likes of Chelsea and most Italian clubs

 

Likely to see a lot more players leaving and turning down contracts in the next few seasons

 

Wouldn't surprise me if when it is implemented we see a few of our better young talents be "sold" to Leuven, take advantage of the system like Watford/Udinese or Man City and all of their clubs etc.

[UniFox21]

12 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

Definitely, pretty sure they are bringing in new rules to restrict the amount of players out on loan from clubs because of the likes of Chelsea and most Italian clubs

 

Likely to see a lot more players leaving and turning down contracts in the next few seasons

 

Wouldn't surprise me if when it is implemented we see a few of our better young talents be "sold" to Leuven, take advantage of the system like Watford/Udinese or Man City and all of their clubs etc.

I think you're right on loans, i remember a rule being spoken of to stop the likes of Chelsea loaning ~100 players at a time and hoarding them basically. 

 

[Foxy-Lady]

On 29/06/2020 at 21:27, Ric Flair said:

Has Petty gone now as well?

didnt realise Petty had gone and not sure of the background why but think this is quite telling if he has "walked away" as he was a good footballing coach who assumed he was being groomed to take over from Beaglehole.

Like Idiakez before him, I suspect he was not prepared to work indefinitely under Beaglehole.....which suggests "hoof-ball" Beaglehole may be staying!

 

Concerning that we keep losing progressive tactically astute coaches more in tune with the modern game at such a key stage in young players development yet Beaglehole remains in situ coaching a style of football that was suited to his own lower league playing days....

If we are to produce players playing at the standard our first team now play at we will be reliant on world class coaches at U23 level OR a world class recruitment team to sign young players age 18-20 who are already capable of breaking into the team before they join us.....not quite sure which of those 2 criteria Beaglehole is suited to as Beaglehole does seem to have a talent for turning Wine into water?!?

 

On the positive side, at least we will continue to be strong challengers for the PL2 U23 title under Beaglehole...!!

[Ric Flair]

4 minutes ago, Foxy-Lady said:

didnt realise Petty had gone and not sure of the background why but think this is quite telling if he has "walked away" as he was a good footballing coach who assumed he was being groomed to take over from Beaglehole.

Like Idiakez before him, I suspect he was not prepared to work indefinitely under Beaglehole.....which suggests "hoof-ball" Beaglehole may be staying!

 

Concerning that we keep losing progressive tactically astute coaches more in tune with the modern game at such a key stage in young players development yet Beaglehole remains in situ coaching a style of football that was suited to his own lower league playing days....

If we are to produce players playing at the standard our first team now play at we will be reliant on world class coaches at U23 level OR a world class recruitment team to sign young players age 18-20 who are already capable of breaking into the team before they join us.....not quite sure which of those 2 criteria Beaglehole is suited to as Beaglehole does seem to have a talent for turning Wine into water?!?

 

On the positive side, at least we will continue to be strong challengers for the PL2 U23 title under Beaglehole...!!

I'm not sure if he has left yet? It's not been confirmed, but alarming if so and as you say it's almost pointless being an academy coach at Leicester as you're hitting your head against a brick Beaglehole.

[Foxy-Lady]

Just seen the latest list of released players.

Very surprised to see Johannsen released as he was a quality keeper who left Villa to join Leicester partly (strong relationship with Ben Petty at Villa and joined just after Petty joined us)

Wondering if his departure may be connected once again to Petty moving on 'elsewhere'..?

 

However, not surprised at all to see Connor Tee released despite the fact he was Academy Player of the year 2 years ago.  I said at the time 2 years ago he would not feature under Beaglehole in the U23s due to his size....and he NEVER did! 

Watched a documentary on Barcelona last night where they used to have a MINIMUM height restriction for players to join their Academy.....until Johann Cryuff took over and told them to scrap it....and then they produced Messi, Iniesta and Xavi.  I guess that should have ended the debate on minimum height for ever....but maybe not??

 

Also worth noting that the previous Academy Player of the year (Alex Pascanu) also left due to lack of opportunity.   What happens to such promising players in such a short period of time as soon as they reach our U23s...?!? 

Im guessing anyone in our current U18s must be dreading being awarded the Academy Player of the year as seems to be a bit of a poisoned chalice...!

[Guest]

15 hours ago, UniFox21 said:

I think you're right on loans, i remember a rule being spoken of to stop the likes of Chelsea loaning ~100 players at a time and hoarding them basically. 

 

This is what people fail to understand when they claim that Chelsea do so well with their youth. They buy hundreds of young players, send them out or not and a very low percentage ever get to play for the Chelsea team. There are only so many at the moment because of their transfer ban last season.

[Stadt]

2 minutes ago, FIF said:

This is what people fail to understand when they claim that Chelsea do so well with their youth. They buy hundreds of young players, send them out or not and a very low percentage ever get to play for the Chelsea team. There are only so many at the moment because of their transfer ban last season.

That’s unfair on Lampard who has shown that he is genuinely invested in playing young players.

[Guest An Sionnach]

Beaglehole is also without a playing career, he did his coaching badges very young but how can he ,from personal experience, tell these lads what is necessary mentally to prepare them for top class football.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Stadt said:

That’s unfair on Lampard who has shown that he is genuinely invested in playing young players.

Because he couldn't buy in when he arrived.

[Stadt]

4 minutes ago, FIF said:

Because he couldn't buy in when he arrived.

But he’s continued throughout the season, it’s not like he just played some youth teamers because they didn’t have any depth. They already have a decent midfield and Gilmore has broken through because Lampard is showing faith. 8 unestablished youth teamers have played in the PL this season, they weren’t going to buy 8 players, maybe 3 or 4 if they could. The transfer ban forced their hand but Lampard is clearly committed to blooding young players beyond ‘they play kid players because ban!!!’

[1972 Fox]

2 hours ago, Stadt said:

But he’s continued throughout the season, it’s not like he just played some youth teamers because they didn’t have any depth. They already have a decent midfield and Gilmore has broken through because Lampard is showing faith. 8 unestablished youth teamers have played in the PL this season, they weren’t going to buy 8 players, maybe 3 or 4 if they could. The transfer ban forced their hand but Lampard is clearly committed to blooding young players beyond ‘they play kid players because ban!!!’

But they've started to spend again now. Werner and Ziyech so far. Let's see if they continue to play young players from their academy next season.

 

Edited 3 July 2020 by Blue Fox 72

[Guest An Sionnach]

39 minutes ago, Blue Fox 72 said:

But they've started too spend again now. Werner and Ziyech so far. Let's see if they continue to play young players from their academy next season.

The idea that the transfer market can solve all your problems is a myth. There seems to be more expensive mistakes than successes. You never can be dead sure of a players abilities until you put them into your team. The Ronaldos and Neymars are few and far between and ridiculously expensive. At least with young academy players you will have kept a close check on them for years. The step up to premiership football can be tough and you get a lot of young players who find consistensy difficult. However Lampard came in at 18 and never looked back ditto Ferdinand and many others. You have just got to give these players a chance.

[The Bear]

That's why you need to scout players properly. Not just for their basic ability, but their attitude, personality, and how they fit into the way you play. It's something we've done very well so far under Fosun/Nuno. Only one or two duds out of all of them. 

 

If you supplement that with good youngsters then you can go far. 

[Ric Flair]

7 minutes ago, The Bear said:

That's why you need to scout players properly. Not just for their basic ability, but their attitude, personality, and how they fit into the way you play. It's something we've done very well so far under Fosun/Nuno. Only one or two duds out of all of them. 

 

If you supplement that with good youngsters then you can go far. 

I like your recruitment system, pick up a lot of quality players and never over pay like we fcukin do.

[The Bear]

I dunno:

 

Kasper £1.5m

Chilwell <£1m?

Soyuncu £15m

Evans £3.5m

Ndidi £15m

Vardy £1m

Maddison £20m

 

All excellent business. 

 

You've paid bigger money for people like Pereira and Tielemans but they are very good players. I think Perez is your worst recently, but then again Rodgers doesn't really play him to his strengths in your system. Which is what I mentioned earlier about scouting. 

Edited 3 July 2020 by The Bear

[Stadt]

1 hour ago, Blue Fox 72 said:

But they've started too spend again now. Werner and Ziyech so far. Let's see if they continue to play young players from their academy next season.

They’re not going to throw Tomori, Mount, James, Gilmour, RLC, CHO and Abraham on the scrap heap because they’ve signed a couple of players. Abraham might play fewer games because of the Werner signing but they’re still going to play more academy grads than probably 90% of English teams. 

[Ric Flair]

43 minutes ago, The Bear said:

I dunno:

 

Kasper £1.5m

Chilwell <£1m?

Soyuncu £15m

Evans £3.5m

Ndidi £15m

Vardy £1m

Maddison £20m

 

All excellent business. 

 

You've paid bigger money for people like Pereira and Tielemans but they are very good players. I think Perez is your worst recently, but then again Rodgers doesn't really play him to his strengths in your system. Which is what I mentioned earlier about scouting. 

£12.5m for Liverpool's 4th choice goalkeeper is up there, as is £12.6m for Rachid Ghezzal who had only joined Monaco a year before on a free and been the bins. Was being offered out on loan with a view to buy but we steamed in with a permanent deal. Slimani and Silva for a combined £55m will take some beating though, especially as both were 28 I believe when we signed them. Perez I could almost understand but still a hefty fee.

[davieG]

3 hours ago, Foxy-Lady said:

Just seen the latest list of released players.

Very surprised to see Johannsen released as he was a quality keeper who left Villa to join Leicester partly (strong relationship with Ben Petty at Villa and joined just after Petty joined us)

Wondering if his departure may be connected once again to Petty moving on 'elsewhere'..?

 

However, not surprised at all to see Connor Tee released despite the fact he was Academy Player of the year 2 years ago.  I said at the time 2 years ago he would not feature under Beaglehole in the U23s due to his size....and he NEVER did! 

Watched a documentary on Barcelona last night where they used to have a MINIMUM height restriction for players to join their Academy.....until Johann Cryuff took over and told them to scrap it....and then they produced Messi, Iniesta and Xavi.  I guess that should have ended the debate on minimum height for ever....but maybe not??

 

Also worth noting that the previous Academy Player of the year (Alex Pascanu) also left due to lack of opportunity.   What happens to such promising players in such a short period of time as soon as they reach our U23s...?!? 

Im guessing anyone in our current U18s must be dreading being awarded the Academy Player of the year as seems to be a bit of a poisoned chalice...!

Or they'e wishing for it as it will look good on their CV when the time has come to move on know it means nothing at LCFC 

[CosbehFox]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

I like your recruitment system, pick up a lot of quality players and never over pay like we fcukin do.

Helps when it's an incestious jerk circle of agent fees mind 

[CosbehFox]

3 hours ago, Foxy-Lady said:

 

Also worth noting that the previous Academy Player of the year (Alex Pascanu) also left due to lack of opportunity.   What happens to such promising players in such a short period of time as soon as they reach our U23s...?!? 

 

Might have not been such a great loss there. Went back to Romanian champions Cluj. Played four games. Finds himself on loan at the bottom team of the Romanian top flight (until they released somehow magically went on a running run *hint* *nothing to see here* *hint*)