2019/20 Under 23's, U19's, Development ... thread

[sacreblueits442]

11 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

No, players will leave because they know we have a shit history of promoting the player. Usually they stagnate in the u23s and get 0 real opportunities. 

..I think we are going to move very quickly to get quality in the U23's under Rodgers and the clubs vision.

 I am aware of the shot comings of the academy and  I believe we are about to take the next step.

[UniFox21]

Just now, sacreblueits442 said:

..I think we are going to move very quickly to get quality in the U23's under Rodgers and the clubs vision.

 I am aware of the shot comings of the academy and  I believe we are about to take the next step.

The actual physical academy itself and the facilities yes, 1000%. But the staff that seem to manage our u23s seem to be hugely hindering. We should be aiming to have huge numbers of u23s out on loan gaining experience to either promote or sell. Not just sit there to win a league with no worth to it.

[sacreblueits442]

1 minute ago, UniFox21 said:

The actual physical academy itself and the facilities yes, 1000%. But the staff that seem to manage our u23s seem to be hugely hindering. We should be aiming to have huge numbers of u23s out on loan gaining experience to either promote or sell. Not just sit there to win a league with no worth to it.

...I agree the personnel needs to change!!!

 Petty has moved on, there is probably more going on than we know.

  For players to be looking for pastures new at this moment is not a coincidence, do not be surprised if more staff changes do not take place at the end of the season.

[UniFox21]

5 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...I agree the personnel needs to change!!!

 Petty has moved on, there is probably more going on than we know.

  For players to be looking for pastures new at this moment is not a coincidence, do not be surprised if more staff changes do not take place at the end of the season.

I can see staff changes and being brought in to match the new facilities rather than keeping the old furniture in place. 

[Ric Flair]

39 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...I agree the personnel needs to change!!!

 Petty has moved on, there is probably more going on than we know.

  For players to be looking for pastures new at this moment is not a coincidence, do not be surprised if more staff changes do not take place at the end of the season.

Has Petty gone now as well?

[lgfualol]

Gyamfi didnt fancy potentially spending his next 5 years with the u23s maybe getting loaned out aged 21 if we aren't in the u23 title race? Shocker

[Ric Flair]

12 hours ago, lgfualol said:

Gyamfi didnt fancy potentially spending his next 5 years with the u23s maybe getting loaned out aged 21 if we aren't in the u23 title race? Shocker

I think it's really telling he has chosen to do this aged just 18 when offered several new deals. He's seen what happens at this club for players signing 3 year professional contracts when they're 17/18 and then wasting those years being ignored until at least 19 and then playing the titan games under Beaglehole.

[Stadt]

Rudkin was formerly head of academy, got promoted obviously and now the current head of academy is the former head of LCFC community coaching. There’s rumour’s that Peake will be replaced internally too. There’s not an influx of new ideas and styles if vacancies are only filled from within. Idiakez wasn’t here long, Halajko, the geezer from Norwich soon left as well. 
 

I’ll keep labouring this point but you wouldn’t build a state of the art fighter jet and stick the Red Baron in it. Our facilities won’t be utilised properly if we carry on with our admin era coaching set up  

Edited 30 June 2020 by Stadt

[UniFox21]

12 minutes ago, Stadt said:

Rudkin was formerly head of academy, got promoted obviously and now the current head of academy is the former head of LCFC community coaching. There’s rumour’s that Peake will be replaced internally too. There’s not an influx of new ideas and styles if vacancies are only filled from within. Idiakez wasn’t here long, Halajko, the geezer from Norwich soon left as well. 
 

I’ll keep labouring this point but you wouldn’t build a state of the art fighter jet and stick the Red Baron in it. Our facilities won’t be utilised properly if we carry in with our admin era coaching set up  

It's concerning that so many people join and leave fairly soon on. As if there is a set way of working and it won't be changed whilst the 'Red Baron' is still around and in place. 

[Guest]

How many of you are actually in the know here regarding the U23 setup. I read such negative comments and would like to know if it's based on something I can believe in or just the usual FT shit.

[sdb]

20 hours ago, themightyfin said:

Gyamfi is one we are going ro regret. Has a great chance of making it at the very top. 

Any positive news to bring the forum (including myself) out of what feels like a deep depression?? Please x

[Ric Flair]

4 hours ago, Stadt said:

Rudkin was formerly head of academy, got promoted obviously and now the current head of academy is the former head of LCFC community coaching. There’s rumour’s that Peake will be replaced internally too. There’s not an influx of new ideas and styles if vacancies are only filled from within. Idiakez wasn’t here long, Halajko, the geezer from Norwich soon left as well. 
 

I’ll keep labouring this point but you wouldn’t build a state of the art fighter jet and stick the Red Baron in it. Our facilities won’t be utilised properly if we carry in with our admin era coaching set up  

You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig.

 

I'm not even sure that euphemism is correct as there's no lipstick even being applied here, just 6ft 3 over aged monsters being deployed to try and win some two bit league and the young U18 stars in limbo.

[Guest An Sionnach]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig.

 

I'm not even sure that euphemism is correct as there's no lipstick even being applied here, just 6ft 3 over aged monsters being deployed to try and win some two bit league and the young U18 stars in limbo.

We think 18 is far too young but players like Cross , Shilton and Lineker were in the team at that age and yet players like  KDH and Hirst are in their twenties!

[Ric Flair]

2 hours ago, An Sionnach said:

We think 18 is far too young but players like Cross , Shilton and Lineker were in the team at that age and yet players like  KDH and Hirst are in their twenties!

Calum Elder was about 26 and still in our academy

[UniFox21]

2 hours ago, An Sionnach said:

We think 18 is far too young but players like Cross , Shilton and Lineker were in the team at that age and yet players like  KDH and Hirst are in their twenties!

But its a completely different era of football now. You'd assume if any of our 18/19 yr olds were honestly good enough, they'd be in and around the squad. 

[Webbo]

6 hours ago, FIF said:

How many of you are actually in the know here regarding the U23 setup. I read such negative comments and would like to know if it's based on something I can believe in or just the usual FT shit.

My guess is the latter.

[Sly]

Alternate view, 

 

We’ve been told previously we’d rue losing Mattock, Sheehan, Dodds, Petrescu, Taft etc

 

I suppose it all depends on where we aspire to be. 

[Guest An Sionnach]

17 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

But its a completely different era of football now. You'd assume if any of our 18/19 yr olds were honestly good enough, they'd be in and around the squad. 

If they are not good enough by now they should not be at the club. Once again teams like Liverpool and Chelsea are prepared to take a chance , we are not.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

If they are not good enough by now they should not be at the club. Once again teams like Liverpool and Chelsea are prepared to take a chance , we are not.

Players play well into their 30's, we can afford to see how good a player is when they are 23, even a 5 year contract then would only last to 28. 

 

Our system hasn't done badly and really can't be compared to Chelsea, Liverpool or Manchester for a couple of decades yet.

[sacreblueits442]

19 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

But its a completely different era of football now. You'd assume if any of our 18/19 yr olds were honestly good enough, they'd be in and around the squad. 

...didn't we have Ashley Chambers who had his first team debut before he was 16.

  Mattock was in before he was 17, I am sure I was at the game when he debuted.

  If your good enough your old enough, although I think the Chamber's one was to give him the record as the youngest debutant.

[Webbo]

57 minutes ago, Sly said:

Alternate view, 

 

We’ve been told previously we’d rue losing Mattock, Sheehan, Dodds, Petrescu, Taft etc

 

I suppose it all depends on where we aspire to be. 

I remember reading on here that Nwunku was the most talented player the clubs ever had. Sometimes the club and the coaches who see them everyday, do know best.

[coolhandfox]

6 hours ago, An Sionnach said:

We think 18 is far too young but players like Cross , Shilton and Lineker were in the team at that age and yet players like  KDH and Hirst are in their twenties!

Because they had the quality that KDH and Hirst can only dream off. 

[coolhandfox]

3 hours ago, An Sionnach said:

If they are not good enough by now they should not be at the club. Once again teams like Liverpool and Chelsea are prepared to take a chance , we are not.

How do you work that out, please explain. Liverpool have TAA and Gomez playing regular basis, we have Barnes and Chilwell, so how are they prepare to take a chance.

 

Chelsea had was force and you can see what they turn think of some of their youngsters, we their level of transfer activity!

[Aus Fox]

4 hours ago, An Sionnach said:

If they are not good enough by now they should not be at the club. Once again teams like Liverpool and Chelsea are prepared to take a chance , we are not.

Or maybe they are not better than what we currently have in the first team squad? Why should we play someone just because they’re young? 
Only got to look at the abuse Barnes, Chilwell and Choudhury get on here to see our support doesn’t like or see players growing into better players. Let alone dropping a player in who isn’t at their level.

If they are not good enough they should not be here???

Well we still need to put our a team to play in development games and no everyone who is on any teams list is not going to make it. 
We have three first team regulars which is great and more than many clubs, we are now understandably looking for the next big thing and I think between those currently out on loan KDH, Iversen, Knight we may have one more who can join the squad.

In the history of our club how many players have left our youth team and gone on to bigger and better things without playing for us?

Most clubs have their mistakes, Chelsea has Salah and KDB, United had Evans and Pogba, Liverpool had jay Spearing and Tom Ince (okay I couldn’t think of one Liverpool let go away).

 

The point is I don’t think we’re doing as badly as many make out we are. I know everyone gets frustrated with the lack of loan movement but as a club we have a duty to make sure it’s the right loan move. It’s okay saying someone should be in the Championship but if either no club wants them, it’s not the right club or set up or the player doesn’t want to go we can’t make them.

Look at someone like Barnes who got the right move to WBA, imagine if he’s gone to play for Warnock or Pulis, it would have stifled his development.

[Guest An Sionnach]

8 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

Because they had the quality that KDH and Hirst can only dream off. 

There you go, you seem to be fearful of giving these players a chance, only one KDH had any time in the cup runs. If we were playing well at the moment I could understand it but we are not and these younger players remain untried. We will not and I mean not solve all our problems with the transfer markets we need to bring our younger players through. I refer you to the teams selected by the forum for tonights match and not one of them include Barnes or Choudhury . Have you given up on them already?

Edited 1 July 2020 by An Sionnach